Eigth and State

Jake - Thanks for the info on Pittsburgh. I truly appreciate it. I also really enjoy all of the maps you have placed on this site, including the Portland system overlaid on Cincinnati. I went to Portland in 1999.

I'll agree with that, but it would still give me more confidence to see the results of a trip to someplace other than Portland. Cincinnati is more similar demographically and economically to Pittsburgh than to Portland.

Very nice! Thanks for posting.

I wasn't asking for comparisons between Cincinnati and Portland. This thread already has plenty of those. If there were trips to other cities besides Portland it would give me more confidence in the streetcar.

"No private business should receive bailouts, lest we have completely given up the principles of capitalism and a free market." We gave up the principles of a free market a long time ago.

Why don't we hear more of the transit systems in Buffalo, Pittsburgh, or Cleveland? Why is it always Portland?

Falls of the Ohio State Park Only a portion of the original cascade remains. The Ohio River originally had a drop of about 26 feet in a mile here. McAlpine Dam is the third navigation dam on the site. The dam itself is shaped like a Z and about a mile long. The river bed is solid rock at this point. This was the only hinderance to navigation all the way from Pittsburgh to New Orleans. Some more Louisville Area photos Louisville water works, I think. 1937 flood marker For Rob. Valve gear on the Belle. (I know he already has a photo of this.) Goodnight from the Falls of the Ohio.

The city could build the streetcar today if they could cut funding for other programs. The city spends a billion dollars a year, and very little of that is for infrastructure. The city budget is a monster.

Office supplies are a miniscule proportion of the city budget. My take on the city manager's memo is that he wants to give the impression that city employees are cutting back on expenses just like everyone else. My point is that the city's finances are in trouble. When the city or any business starts going after office supplies, you know that there's a problem. Of course I want Over-the-Rhine to be redeveloped. But what I want to happen and what I think will happen are two different things.

^--- No, but that title is all about you, KJP!

Today the City Manager sent a memo to city employees asking them to save money. Specifically, he said to print black and white instead of color, and to replace color copiers with black and white ones. Education programs for city employees are being cut, as well as almost all travel outside of the city. The number of city vehicles is being reduced. We all know that the city is in trouble financially. The city doesn't have extra money laying around to build a streetcar. I'm just sayin'. :-o

Most street noise comes from cars. Getting away from cars will reduce most of the noise. The suburban model does this by reducing density. Only one car on the street every 20 minutes leaves most of the day quiet. There are other ways to do it in an urban setting, such as placing a park in the center of the block surrounded by buildings. The buildings will help reduce the street noise. Placing motorways in a depression one level below the street is definitely better than placing them on overpasses one level above the street.

There is a bus route to Blue Ash but the route and frequency leaves a lot to be desired, as do many of the Metro routes at the far end of the route. Most of Blue Ash isn't served at all, unless you want to walk two miles on a 6 lane motorway with no sidewalks. Ride any bus from downtown to the end of the line and back and you will find that the ridership is higher closer to the core. Functionally, I don't think the relationship between Metro and Tank hinders riders as much as the radial layout. Going from point A in Hamilton County to point B in Hamilton County can be just as bad if there are transfers downtown. I know someone who rides access buses, though, and access doesn't go to Covington.

Here's some more data about those 4 cities. I think this data pertains to the city municipal boundary, not the metro area. Portland Estimated per capita income in 2007: $28,305 Cincinnati Estimated per capita income in 2007: $23,960 Pittsburgh Estimated per capita income in 2007: $23,309 Buffalo Estimated per capita income in 2007: $19,474 source: www.city-data.com

That Challote vehicle is labeled "trolley" but it really has a pantograph. They should have called it the "Charlote Pantograph." :-D

"It was to be the tallest building in the state, and certainly the ugliest." SFSpike on a skyscraper that didn't get built in Columbus.

Oh dear.

It was known early on that a 4 lane divided highway, 2 lanes each way, is the safest arrangement for cruising in automobiles. Dividing the highway minimizes head on collisions from crossing the center, and making two lanes in each direction instead of one allows safe passing. Ideally, there would be no highways wider than 4 lanes. Two completly separate highways would be safer than a highway wider than 4 lanes, and also allow more access. Most of the interstate system was designed for 4 lanes total, and much of it is still that way. The interstates somehow got out of hand in some areas.

What is this place now? A museum? Is it still privately owned?

"Suppose you could cheaply obtain a few cars in good condition..." That's the problem. They simply aren't available. If you know where we could find some, please step forward. Otherwise, starting a system with old equipment to save money would be reasonable. The ADA requirement could be met by initiating an on-demand system with specially equiped buses or vans along the same route. Some of Cincinnati's old PCC cars went to Toronto. Used streetcars were cheap in those days, because so many transit agencies were switching to motor buses. Many of Cincinnati's old cars were still in serviceable condition were simply scrapped. It was hard enough to get rid of PCC cars, much less Brills or Cincinnati cars.

A car is really not too bad for operations cost per mile if it is full. An SUV with 6 people in it get pretty good mileage on a per passenger basis.

Very nice, and also a good view of PCC cars and Brill trolleys. I was a little disappointed that they didn't show a plan view or aerial photo. Knowlton's Corner in Cincinnati was treated something like this, except that they installed new curbs and brick pavement instead of painting. Knowlton's corner doesn't have as much pedestrian activity, though, and no longer has streetcars.

Just wondering - where do these "historic" trolleys and PCC cars come from? Are they all antiques from the 1930's or older that somehow survived and got refurbished, or are there any modern manufacturers?

Umm, I hope it doesn't rock. A rocking observation platform would be scary. :-D

Agreed.