Cleburger

Those tracks are still heavily used by freight aren't they? The ones on the bluff? I think there are both NS and Conrail trains making their way through there?

Hi I'm Clifton! I'm getting enhanced! http://www.cudc.kent.edu/drupal/index.php?q=node/3 Note the first public meeting listed on the site: When: Wednesday, March 24th 2010 :: 6pm-8pm Where: Emerson Middle School (13439 Clifton Blvd. Lakewood, OH) map What: Intial public meeting joint session for Cleveland and Lakewood * Very brief overview of previous planning effors and actions by Cleveland and Lakewood to date * Overview of scope, deliverables and timeline of this study process * Presentation of potential plan components to test residents priorities, qualitative desires and funtional needs

Thanks Grumpy--not sure how I missed that!

Like it or not, I should ask the moderators if this project deserves it's own thread since it looks like it will take shape in some form.... Perhaps the transit component will be significantly reduced and the thread should just go in NE Ohio construction?

Actually I think I just found the answer to my own question on this site: http://enhanceclifton.digmob.org/?q=node/5 Field survey January 12 to April 12, 2010

I'd like to think the survey crews I've seen on Clifton the past two days are a part of this, but it seems as if RTA is still seeking that design money in it's 2011 agenda. Anyone have inside information??

Ask and ye shall receive. Well sort off. The City of Cleveland had some fine employees lazily dropping cold patch into the many cracks and potholes on Clifton after I posted this earlier. Not the construction crews I had hoped for....but they were amusing to watch!

Forgot to mention--I saw the survey crew out at West Blvd and Clifton again this morning while running around. I certainly hope construction workers come soon after!

Unfortunately in the realm of government spending your analysis holds true. If we don't spend it, someone else will. So we might as well beautify while the dollars are still there. I feel the same way. The project has lost it's luster. However, choosing between the watered down version and letting the shoreway crumble as it is now, I'll have a tall glass of water....

Yes, at the same time. We lost the streetcar tracks on Clifton to gain the added lanes. So, at no point were commuters just told to shove it... we switched modes, quite wrongly, but we never simply cut capacity on this route without replacing it. Yet in 1950 the city population was double (perhaps more) what it is now. So the capacity issues were vastly different, especially on the Clifton stretch of the city border. I don't buy this argument of affecting a commute by adding a median to Clifton or the Shoreway. Humans are adapting creatures. Even those that live in outer-ring suburbs. :)

The decline in ridership will probably be partially explained with the release of 2010 Census data. I get the sense our population loss was similar to the 1970's when thousands of families left this region for construction jobs in the sunbelt.

McCleveland is right however--no sense in arguing about until we see more current renderings. I'm all for light in the lobby. On the show floor not so much. Let's hope the architects consider the uses of each.

Fuzzy math aside, I noticed a surveying crew working on Clifton between the Shoreway and West Blvd today. Hopefully it's a part of the design money for the Clifton to W 117th project and will get the street at least redone, with nice new sidewalks, crossing and maybe a median (and a paltry 35 MPH sort-of enforced speed limit)?

When was the last time you saw natural light in a theater? Same concept here--except the actors on stage are the companies who lease space to put themselves on stage. Natural light should not be included on the show floor when possible. It negates the effects of millions of dollars invested in the flash and glitz of LED screens and hi-tech lights.

Agreed that natural light in the lobby would be a good thing. On the show floor not so much. Maybe that rendering was of a lobby?

Regarding the tugboats and salt mines, isn't the point of a project like this to look to the future? When Cleveland's quickly-shrinking industrial past is gone and the port moved east? To make the entire lakefront more livable for residents with "new-economy" jobs?

When the project was first mentioned I was all for the at-grade intersections, but have since revised my thoughts on this. I do support a "Lakeshore Drive" feel--with additional access points for the neighborhoods but unimpeded traffic flow. But I also don't kid myself....at this point I'd be happy if we could get Clifton repaved and new sidewalks/crosswalks as Lakewood has done. Like many of Cleveland's street's it's in bad need of some TLC.

I disagree. With that much window space you don't want the shades as an afterthought. Paint is easy to change. Installing integral shades is an expensive proposition after-the-fact, and anything temporary would be unsightly plus cost a fortune to have union labor put in and take out constantly. We are designing a SHOW space. Considerations should be made for the aesthetics, but ultimately the end users are the clients renting the space to put in their insanely expensive booths during a show.

They have this new thing called shades which mutes natural light. I appreciate your sarcasm GreenerPastures. Care to place bets as to whether the rendering architect drew in the "shades" to the design or budget? ;)

I travel to Dallas all the time for business-economy there is humming. I'm told by the locals it's the number one growth market in the US in terms of population influx, housing starts, jobs etc. Houston and Austin are also growing.

Is this rendering supposed to be the show floor???? Natural light is not always desirable in a convention setting--especially one where the booth renters spend large sums of money on lighting and video.

I'm guessing this current recession is causing our little region to BLEED population once more, not unlike the loss we saw in the 1970's as tens of thousands left for the sunbelt construction jobs etc.... Get ready for the census data and a wake-up call for Cleveland/Cuyahoga County.

So long as they can bear the weight of the shows that want to book the space. If there are severe weight restrictions columns might be a better option.

I love the argument of some folks that since the city is losing population nothing should be spent to make it better. Now in some cases I agree with them--spending money on tourist follies like aquariums and casinos are not what this city needs. Attracting jobs and employers with large scale quality-of-life improvements for all residents (as I would consider this West Shoreway conversion) should be put at the forefront of our efforts.

What were some of their complaints? Anything legit or was it all anti-government spending Tea Party antics?