Cleburger

CSU is already working on building a more residential campus, which is great. But "campus" is only as good as the number of people who live there. So when this campus is done and you're a high school Sr and you're looking at state schools...you don't think the idea of having a casino in your back yard would not be a big draw for some? With free transportation (more or less - you get an RTA pass w/ tuition) between campus and x, y, z entertainment districts? Options...options are awesome. I actually don't believe that a casino would rank high on a college student's list of things to do. They are smarter than that, and find more direct ways to waste their money (like giving their money directly to bartenders).

Or this piece via Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-G20/idUSTRE58J08T20090920

Everything I've read over the past couple years is how they've weathered the recession better than any of the surrounding rust-belt communities. The attention was refocused on this for the G20 summit. Consider this piece, albiet an editorial: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/24/cohon.pittsburgh.renewal

Public Auditorium, Music Hall and the Little Theaters are absolute TREASURES. Politics aside, the mall site was #1 on my list because these gems get included in the 21st century facility--which will make it that much more marketable to conventions coming in.

I'm sure most Pittsburgers would attribute their economic success to the well-placed higher-education institutions as partners in a 21st century economy rather than the casinos (which are relatively new developments there). Any recent national articles I've seen on the city in the wake of the G20 etc all point to this as well.

You mean like the folks supporting Issue 3? Those sorts of head-examination candidates? Allow me to quote their tagline: Create 34,000 New Jobs. Right on top of the website. http://www.yesonissue3.com/. Apparently they see it as an economic development engine. I don't disagree that a casino is better than nothing, I just think this is all a waste of time and ten years from now we'll all be here debating why Ohio is in a crisis, what happened to the casino budget numbers, why is downtown suffering. After all, Dan Gilbert just wants to be the "developer" right? Why not let him "develop" student housing, retail over at CSU?

If they build a casino in Cleveland I suppose it will improve the look of the town, provide some temporary news articles, ribbon cuttings, etc... Call me a naysayer, but when downtown remains unchanged from this so-called economic development, who you going to blame? I'd rather put the money into residential life for CSU students. Let's invest in making a campus atmosphere downtown. 30,000 suburban kids spending their money in downtown Cleveland will do more than a bunch of unemployed UAW guys wasting away their unemployment checks in a Cleveland pole-barn with slots. It's also an investment in our future. A future where parents can't afford to send their kids out of state to college anymore. The future where the obvious choice is right here in our back yard. A casino is a temporary fix to take your eyes of the prize. It's the politicians equivalent of the shovel pass. Quick gain with no long term rewards. If you don't believe me take a walk around downtown Detroit on a Friday night. Or downtown Niagara Falls. Or downtown Evansville. Do we want to be Evansville, or do we want to be Boston? That's all I'm sayin....

They will eat in the casino because most casinos provide free or reduced-price lunches to their employees for exactly that reason--they want to hold them captive just like their customers.

Seems like the Gund Foundation has given more to the City of Cleveland this year than President Obama's stimulus package!

What exactly IS the Federal Stimulus package doing for construction and development on anything in Cleveland? I've heard mention of the Flats east bank, but not much else on the loonnnnnng list that was submitted by Mayor Jackson.

That's exactly the point--to bring people in and keep them there. Casinos aren't designed to spill over. I wish Dan Gilbert a night of walking around downtown Detroit....

Too little too late--gambling is not going to be what it was 10 years ago when every state has a polebarn with slots and a riverboat filled with retired amputees spending away their union annuities.

I was thinking this morning as I walked to my flight in the D concourse--what if Continental had just worked with the city to revamp the A concourse, which at the time had little action going on there (and is still fairly sleepy). I think the retail at Hopkins would have fared better if people making connections at our "hub" had to walk through it to get to another concourse? Seems to me that your casual traveler of the sort who shops on connections would not be adventurous enough to seek out retail.

We lose lots of 19 year olds to Canada where the drinking age is lower. Are you ready to lower that? How about those guys who go to Nevada to buy a legal hooker? Is Ohio ready for that? I just don't buy the "money is flowing out" argument. I think it's a small slice of a pie that's shrinking too quickly. Once every state has gambling the politicians will still find a way to have budget woes. Then what?

Which make your glasses brown colored thanks to three stabbings and two drownings. There were the other millions of revelers of the course of the years who lived to see another day after a night of partying. I think the truth lies somewhere in between--but wish the city would have focused on cleaning up and improving what was there. The natural spot for a casino would have been in the midst of all that. Had we done so, I think business travellers would have started to look to Cleveland as a convention destination.

Fast forward 20 years. The state continues to lose population, jobs, manufacturing, etc. What are our politicians going to blame then? What will they turn to? The drinking age in Canada? I say lets be an island. While the politicians in other states take the easy way out, let's focus our energy on a competitive tax structure to attract high tech business here.

Do you have anything to serious to add or do you post just to be annoying? What's the matter My Two Sense? Are we not allowed to be critical of our politician's decisions here? Can I not still be scornful that we took the biggest tourist draw in the midwest and mowed down the builidngs, and are "hoping" to replace it someday with an Ernst and Young building?

Anybody up for a bus trip to Detroit? Let's see how Gilbert's home town has fared after not one, but two major casinos.

You must not be a boater. The old Flats were a legendary destination for boaters from around the Great Lakes. I still get asked everywhere I go how the Flats are doing--and people look at me like I am crazy when I tell them it's a ghost town now.

Hopefully the new food court will be kept cleaner than the old. There were some mornings I sat down in there and I felt like I was at the Flying J in West Virginia.

Were you planning on dropping by Milwaukee's Potawatomi Casino? I believe you will find its downtown location and its surroundings are thriving. Or are you planning to drive them by the proposed location in Cincinnati where we are desperatly trying to invigorate the adjacent neighborhoods of Pendleton and OTR,(considered one of the most endangered historic sites in the country) whereas the current parking lot (which is the proposed site for the casino) is doing little to spur economic development although meanwhile many developers and businessmen are anxiously awaiting a casino vote, present company included. Stopping by there as well? The point of my post was more directed at Cleveland and Cavs owner Dan Gilbert. He acts like a casino will save our city--but in his hometown of Detroit they've done nothing. I think the new football and baseball stadiums have helped, but the biggest draw continues to be the Red Wings playing in their aging building. The casinos draw--but that's it. They draw to the parking garages and keep their patrons locked away. There's no arguing a casino could help some locations-but I've seen plenty of examples where it does nothing. Keep the list going. Detroit, Niagara Falls, Windsor, St Louis, Evansville....you name it--the casinos came and the region continues to struggle. So why not invest that energy elsewhere?

Who wants to go to Detroit?

From playground for hot young twentysomethings to headquarters for Ernst & Young. Talk about a turnaround. :drunk: A bunch of accountants does not make a tourist destination, but we'll take what we can get over a brownfield.

:clap: That is a huge myth! Go sit at the exit of the Detroit Casinos and see how many of those folks are also going to the Dettriot Institute of Art, or dinner someplace else in the city or a show. They do not! Once the car is parked, that is IT! People stay at the casino till they spent all their money, then they go home! Amen brother! The point of building a casino is to spur development and economic growth no? So why do it if it won't accomplish that goal. The cons outweigh the pros. As far as the revenue, I GUARANTEE the politicians downstate will figure out a way to take the tax revenue and redistribute to every district in Southeastern Ohio. Just like the Stimulus funds which seemed to have magically not appeared in Cleveland. Since every state around us has gambling, let's go the other direction. Let's find a way to compete in the 21st century with high tech jobs, health care jobs, etc. Casinos are an easy way out for the politicians. Let's not let them take the easy way out.

Let's see what kind of fun they have in the real world outside the casinos. If they would take me up on it, I'll personally rent a bus for Dan Gilbert and all of our Cleveland politicians (and throw in a few state politicos) to take a weekend trip with me. Friday night will be to Niagara Falls USA to witness the neighborhoods that the Seneca Casino has destroyed. Too bad our bus won't fit in the parking garage--they'll have to rough it and walk around the neighborhood from one of the surface lots the casino built by razing the surrounding homes and businesses. Saturday night we head on over to Detroit USA to walk the streets of downtown Detroit in between their two "world-class" casinos. No security. No escorts. No media. Just me, Dan, and the politicians. My guess is they wouldn't last 10 seconds before they were back on the bus wishing they had driven their own car so they could safely park in one of the attached casino parking structures with the other suburbanites.