Cleburger

I think Detroit had problems before the casinos came and I don't think putting casinos there added to any of those problems. And Cleveland has it's share of problems. Which proves my point--casinos do nothing to spur economic development, other than the near-term construction jobs. Want another example? Go to Niagara Falls USA where the Indian casino has DEFINITELY helped to worsen the surrounding area. I think Dan Gilbert and Frank Jackson should take a bus trip together and walk around that area some Friday night....

I wonder if Dan Gilbert really cares about Cleveland, or his own wallet. He should spend a night walking around downtown Detroit in his hometown if he wants to see what casinos do for the local economy. They've had two "world class" casinos there for some time--and Detroit is still suffering. The time to build a casino would have been in the 90's in the Flats. Sin city. NOLA North. Keep the party going if you're going to do it. Now? It will only give some people $10/hour jobs and be filled with unemployed UAW and Steelworkers gambling away their retirement funding. And to make matters worse they go from the parking lot to the casino and right back to their car without ever exploring a neighborhood in Cleveland.

I agree as well--and continue to ask, where are the Federal Stimulus dollars being spent in Cleveland???? I search and search and found requests for funding--but nothing seems to be approved. It's all going to end up downstate in rural districts. Truly sad.

Sounds like a good argument for BRT up Clifton!

There is plenty of dissent brewing on these boards--however the status-quo here is one of a collective "Sim-City Hooray". I'm all for being positive--but there are times when you have to get down right mad, cynical, what have-you. It's Cleveland. That's a part of our personality. You won't change that. Back on topic, It is probably short-sighted to blame Cimperman and Jackson alone. If you remember, this whole Flat's East Bank fiasco started under Mike White's watch. Sent the inspectors in and closed down profitable businesses over "electrical code violations", with no chances for the landlords or club owners to make good on the "violations." In a few years, we can look back and blame Cimperman and Jackson if they fail to secure stimulus funds to prod this and other projects along. I'm sure Wolstein would appreciate the public participation once more! Why not have some Federal dollars push along putting streets down in that neighborhood where Old River Road was once packed with young, vibrant party-goers. That would be a start.

Here here! When it comes down to it we are ALL Clevelanders. Whether it's the Opportunity Parkway in the east, or the West Shoreway or Clifton BRT in the west, every citizen and every neighborhood will benefit. For all the talk of the Federal stimulus dollars I still see nothing getting done. How do we expect our leaders to build a new highway when we can't even fix or maintain our existing bridges, streets and sidewalks? How is our government so inefficient, despite the fact that they govern less people with more employees? And it's not just the government. How do we struggle with vacant land between 55th and 105th, but we took a perfectly good batch of historic buildings in the flats and mowed them down? After 10 years of the public/private sector wrangling, only to have the project come to a screeching halt? The point here is--there are public funds available--and the time is ripe to use them. If our leaders sit on their hands for this one--we will never see any of these projects happen.

Along the same topic--I returned a rental car at the airport the other morning after my car repair was finished, and decided to just take the train back home. Went to use the fare card machines--there was a sign directing to pay at the turnstiles. I paid my $2 fare in quarters at the turnstiles (the booth was unmanned) and headed to the train. Upon boarding, the train driver INSISTED there was a sign to pay on the train. When I told her I didn't see one and instead had followed the instructions to pay at the turnstile, she became very hostile. There were other people getting on the train with me that told her the same thing--they saw no sign. I'm sure there are all types working at RTA--but is this who we want as an ambassador at the airport on a Tuesday morning? Is RTA that broke that they can't put someone in the booth with a smile on their face?

Agreed MTS. My point way back when was I don't believe there needs to be a transport center tied to the Med Mart. Conventioneers generally take taxi's and pre-arranged shuttles, not public transport, to their convention activities and hotels.

Perhaps the North Coast Transportation Center could replace Public Square as a "hub" for RTA. That would clean up Public Square and reduce bus traffic so the square could finally be united from four squares into just one. Eh, maybe definitely for another thread... :) Two things: 1. Transportation Centers do not do anything for the convention business except get the employees to and from work, along with the occasional adventurous attendee. 2. Don't take this the wrong way because I'm just telling it like it is, but part of Tower's City's failure is the "bus riding crowd" chases away the white suburbanites. For this same reason I'm sure the Med Mart people wouldn't want a Transpo Center attached to their facility.

This just goes to show you--the GOP and it's rural constituents are hypocrites. Complain about the wasteful federal spending then take the majority of it. It says a lot why the conservative revolution really went nowhere. On the other hand, the mainly Democrat urban politicians should not let this one go either. They campaigned on change, now change the way these projects are funded!

Just remarking on the Tbideon post above reflecting on the good old days.

Sigh...Cleveland's once biggest convention and tourist draw is now a brownfield. Literally.

ahhhh....bummer.

Anyone know what the lane closure is on the West Shoreway west-bound? Just wondering if it's a part of the plan to start converting the freeway into a boulevard?

WTF??? Relevent to this thread how?? WTF??? Relevent to this thread how?? Of course it's relevant. You have a person in a position of power able to grant favored status to a developer. Then it was Wolstein, now it's Forest City. Then it was our only real claim to a tourist attraction. Now it's our only real claim to any kind of convention-status town (and minor one at that). Let's not wager our future again like we did with the flats. Let's get this done right the first time.

Nance was under the microscope for several dealings with the White administration, including the construction of Browns stadium. Sounds like someone stands to make some money of the taxpayer again...

Anyone else suspicious of Fred Nance's involvement in all this?

Bravo Crains! Hopefully the politicos read that one!

Unbelieveable--the Tower City Convention Center could quite easily be the largest boondoggle in modern Cleveland history being pushed through by a group of commissioners who are under Federal investigation for corruption. Yet no posts on this topic in the last 5 days....unreal! :whip:

To maximize benefits to Clevelanders, the only way to go is with the old facility. Clean it up, rehab it, put in the med mart and let's get the conventions coming. If in 10 years it's an out-of-the park hit, we can put up the new facility. Thanks to your politicians, we've all become Sim-City residents. Build it and they will come. Hooray!

The more I read these, the more I realize that your average concerned citizen (like the posters on this board) are as in the dark as our politicians on the tickings of the convention business. What was the last convention you attended that utilized a NBA arena as a part of its show floor? It rarely happens due to availability of these buildings and cost-square footage ratios. A convention that could afford the rent would not be able to find an open window of availability large enough to let them have the arena for unrestricted access without interference from a team tenant or other event. What are the biggest "tourist" draws and site of many corporate parties ALREADY going on downtown? The Rock Hall and Great Lakes Science Center ALREADY host many corporate functions and events. It would be a natural extension to have a pedestrian tunnel/bridge and hotel complex near these venues where convention planners are going to gravitate towards anyway. Ever drive by the Rock Hall late at night and wonder what the party going on is? Chances are it's some boring corporate rental and not your favorite rock star hanging out.... And for those of you who insist rail access has anything at all to do with convention site selection (which it doesn't), couldn't we just drop our convention-goers out the back door to the waterfront line if we made use of the existing site?

A couple of points in response: 1. Is East 4th and the Warehouse District really any further away from the existing site than a site behind Tower City? 2. Convention-goers do not use light rail. Have a look at the cab stand outside of McCormick Place. The train line may appeal to a few convention goers, but mainly for employees. Attendees are usually on expense accounts and hop a cab for the quick trip to the airport.

BETTER ACCESS TO DOWNTOWN's ASSETS? What assets are those? I personally like the current location for it's access to downtown assets, like Public Hall, Music Hall and the Little Theatres, Browns Stadium, the Great Lakes Science Center and OUR SIGNATURE TOURIST ATTRACTION--THE ROCK HALL OF FAME. Now what assets are available near Tower City?

Anyone want to place bets that they find a water hose running underground from Tower City that "mysteriously" empties it's contents into the Mall B/C area? Call it the Forest City Aquafier... Just a hunch... ;)

Better yet, let's all push ODOT for a signature bridge for the innerbelt! If Toledo can have one, so can we!