Cleburger

I agree with McCleveland that the TC site has physical limitations, but this mistake has been made by architects and planners of many kinds of venues around the country. What bothers me more is the four historic theatres that comprise the Public Hall complex. These are treasures, and with minimal rehab could become key components of the new convention center on the old site, quite unlike any other convention complex in the country. Instead, we debate the politicians pants-dropping for a developer to get some construction workers eating at his food court during the initial phases. Once the doors open, all bets are off and nothing, save a overall economic boom for the region, will improve Tower City's traffic.

As a veteran of the convention/entertainment industry, here are my bullet points on why rehabbing the existing site makes more sense: 1. The convention business is dying still after a huge post September 11 decline. 2. Convention goers do not care about malls. Witness the top convention markets of Orlando, Chicago and Vegas (well OK it's one giant mall--with prositutes, gambling and 24 hour cocktails--something Tower City won't ever have). 3. Convention attendees DO NOT USE LIGHT RAIL. This is something I hear from Clevelanders in favor of the Tower City location all the time. Save for vendors and some exhibitors at McCormick Place, I can't think of any major convention site that really needs light rail to make it work. Besides, wouldn't it be nice to have a link on the Lakeside Ave side to the Waterfront Line? So there would actually be a couple riders who are not homeless? 4. Public Hall, Music Hall and the theatres are historic places. Cleveland--wake up! We have these beautiful facilities that can be spiffed up and integrated into a modern convention center. We shouldn't turn our backs on these treasures. I bet most of you don't know about the other theatres in that building, do you? 5. We already have two huge convention and meeting attractions in place--the Science Center and Rock Hall already host many evening corporate functions and would continue to do so with direct access to the convention center across the tracks. 6. No matter what Forest City argues, Tower City is still only a couple blocks away. So lets use our public money to build on the existing site, and let Forest City kick in their money for an underground walkway or above ground bridgeway to let convention-goers find their mall (if they so choose).

So what can we do to stop this now? I'd be happy for a signature bridge if it were a trade off for this monstrosity.

Heard from a friend there this morning that Penton just let go of a bunch of people this morning. Anyone else hear this?

Very interesting post DanB. Note that my girlfriend's father in Middleburg Heights belief in the east side's racial makeup (as noted in a earlier post) was making these comments in the mid 1990's. It's a shame how some people live in a bubble.

I have no idea why my response showed up in the quote of M2S's post. This was my text: I've been slapped several times on this site with personal fouls. Unnecessary use of sarcasm without emoticons. People need to lighten up! :) :) ;) :) :( (hopefully those got me off the hook with the flamingo-decorated-yard denizens of this here forum). Maybe I used TOO MANY emoticons and overloaded the anti-sarcasm system...

I've been slapped several times on this site with personal fouls. Unnecessary use of sarcasm without emoticons. People need to lighten up! :) :) ;) :) :( (hopefully those got me off the hook with the flamingo-decorated-yard denizens of this here forum).

Let's see I grew up in Lake County and dated a girl from Middleburg Heights who's racist dad thought the entire east side was black. Survey says: ______________ :)

Pope, the "diving" line? Where people so distressed to move to the west side they dived into the Cuyahoga instead? Or does Cleveland have an underground cliff diving history/following and this information didn't make it into the Cleveland Memory Project archives? :evil: I too have always thought the "divider" was the river. My dad lives on the east side in Lake County and thinks that Slavic Villiage is the west side! The whole east/west thing in the Cleveland area seems to break down to perception--especially from those sheltered in the suburbs for too long. On the converse side, I once dated a girl from Middleburg Heights whose father feared her going to the east side with me. He was convinced that there were no white people "over there." I hope his daughter helped to change his mind.

[/quote that is inaccurate, so inaccuate I won't even discuss it. If you do not work in the music industry - AND I HAVE - please don't post inaccurate information. Not sure which response you're referring to, but go ahead and enlighten me. By the way, it's the only business I've ever worked in. In fact, I am currently on the road with a major pop star.

Anyone been to the Experience Music Project in Seattle? I loved it--especially the interactive stuff. Had a blast jamming with other people, making recordings etc. Way to go Van Halen! :clap: Too bad the tour has been called off. It's a shame these guys can't get along for 90 minutes a night to be on stage together. :whip:

While we're at it, let's legalize the hookers and let Jeff Jacobs build a whorehouse next to the new casino in the Powerhouse. It would be handy for all those new Stonebridge residents. Here are my votes for the names of the Cleveland's red-light district: 1. Crooked River Hookers 2. "Burning" River Ranch Any others?? :)

A--The Rolling Stones do not stay in Cleveland when they play here. Nor do most of the top-touring acts who can afford a private charter. Most hub out of Chicago, a short 45 minute flight away. B--Sure there are private parties surrounding these events. But to be a rock start today means you want to be crossing the velvet ropes into NYC's A List club at 3 am with a shorn Britney Spears on your arm. The paparazzi wouldn't get much juice out of a star being put into a private party at the Marriott Key Center.

Tri-C and CSU could look into sharing facilities. Not just in terms of sports facilities, but entire majors and area's of study. It would be an efficient way to build the "critical mass" of intellect that alot people say Cleveland lacks to attract industries of the "new economy." Say, for example, Cleveland wants to spawn a robotics industry. Why couldn't both schools share a single facililty and provide different levels of instruction at each? If you had something like a robotics magnet school in the city's school district that fed into tri-c's robotics courses, then into CSU's, we'd be cranking out probably some of the best in the field. That would catch the attention of outside companies, and make it more likely that we could just create our own industries. Tri-c wouldn't really even have to move to Euclid Ave. to do this. This reminds me of back in the mid 90's when Modell took the Browns away from and all the politicos were dropping their pants to get the NFL back here, build a stadium, etc. At the time, I felt the hundreds of millions of dollars would be better spent putting a Division I football program into CSU along with a stadium and new residential component. If you look at the other great metropolitan areas of the country, most have a large residential campus in town. Imagine 30,000 suburban kids living along Euclid Ave, spending their parents' money on Vikings football and cheap draft beer.

I travel just a much as you. Cleveland isn't even in the top 10. I doubt you travel as much as me, but I do concur with much of your list (other than the lack of Cleveland). :)

Easy solution to panhandlers, whether they be on a corner or at an exit ramp. DO NOT GIVE THEM ANYTHING. No cigarettes, no change, no money, no disrespect. Donate to a homeless organization and let them know you've done this. Cut off the supply and they will have to find other means to survive.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I travel extensively for a living and I rank Cleveland at #2 nationally for panhandling intrusions. :whip: I put Seattle at #1 and San Francisco at #3.

I checked the Action 19 website and didn't find anything. I did, however, find this on the Channel 3 website detailing an attack by a off-duty CPD working as a Tower City security guard on a WKYC reporter. Great stuff and further advancing the cause of downtown retail... :whip: http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=62803&provider=gnews

Exactly the point I was trying to make Punch--it's the business side. I think an artist getting inducted would show up anywhere, much like the players going to Canton and Cooperstown. The difference here is it's the artists and industry execs who AREN'T getting inducted that would fail to attend. Let's face it, the music industry has always been about the party and, unlike pro sports, the party is very public.

Your answer lies in your earlier post 8shades. None of the music industry really wants to come here. While the excuses are numerous (lack of direct flights, luxury hotels), even if Cleveburg solved these problems the industry movers and shakers would find new excuses to replace them. The industry is centered in New York and LA. Attendees probably find it convenient to book hundreds of daily direct flights to NYC, choose from thousands of hotel options, and get other business done during the course of their visit for the ceremony.

Go figure! Had to be something more than just parking concerns.... Suburbanites need their share of cronyism and graft too!

Not familiar with the greenhouse there Wimwar. If you rode along the river, you same through the southern then western portions of downtown. The areas I'm speaking of are from downtown north to the city limits. I agree with you on the lake/river confluence. It's a pretty amazing site. The falls have always been an item of interest to me too.

Peabody--you hit it on the head. I have the numbers of a couple drivers (nice guys), but these are useless to visitors, or to those of us who want that quick ride. The other problem I've found with these guys who work their phones...so many people have their numbers that they are either perpetually booked, or, worse yet, will tell you "I'll be right there" when in reality they are swamped. They end up showing up an hour later with some excuse of getting tied up. A big step would be to force the cabbies to use their meters and elimate the flat-rate negotiation.

I just checked with my Dad, who works for AT&T here in Cleveland. He said he was unaware of this fiber trunk (at least it's status as a national thruway). He has plenty of fiber in Cleveland. ATT/SBC invested nationally in fiber, including buying important carriers who had fiber in place. On a related note--here's what he told me about the Lorain Carnegie bridge: "Several weeks ago copper thieves cut a large section of 1800 pair cable which runs under the Lorain bridge. Needless to say they knocked out a lot of phones and data lines. Both the phone and electric companies have problems with the copper thieves." Haha! I guess we should push for fiber...at least until they figure out it's value on the scrap market. :evil:

Detroit Superior had streetcar traffic for sure. I'm not sure the Lorain Carnegie ever had a second deck for this traffic.