Cleburger

IMO this area doesn't really need anything more than public access via a boardwalk, and maybe some small green space. Once again this is the lakefront....but it's also the east side of the mouth of the Cuyahoga river, inside the harbor break wall. Storms bring muddy water, dead fish, trash and lots of floating trees (along with an occasional decomposing body). It's not a pristine beach that you'd want to dangle your toes in. This kind of "lakefront" site might be better viewed from a distance, perhaps from the inside of a restaurant or apartment (luxury or not).

But one would assume if all parties were aligned on making something great on the Lakefront for the Browns, the city and all residents of the region, it could come together quickly.

Not sure of the answer daybreaker, but welcome to The Land! I know there was originally a hotel as a part of the Bridgeworks project (25th/Detroit) but it's been cost-engineered out to a smaller apartment building that just looks like a Courtyard by Marriott.

NYC has 665 miles of subway, versus 78 miles for Philly. Sounds like Philly is jealous of length. DISCLAIMER: my family is from there and I LOVE Philly! ;)

I would add a further argument that density helps with affordability. Someone may not be as inclined to live in a dense neighborhood, but if he price is right in a prime location, they may give it a shot.

Crazy how expensive this kind of project is. Just out of curiosity Ken, how many CSX trains use that line daily? It can't be many.

(sigh). Before the greed kicked in. I'd still love to see this, with a bunch of publicly financed parking ramps that Haslam can keep on game days.

That W Lakeshore has never been a gem of the W Brand. IIRC it was an old Days Inn that W went in and put lipstick on a pig. But it was on the lakeshore in the loop, good location, with a top floor bar that was all the rage in the early 2000's. I haven't been there since that heyday, and I would imagine it has to be pretty tired these days. The W City Center was always a nicer property and I would imagine has been better maintained to date.

And California ended up with it

IMO the only way a neighborhood and dense development is feasible in Cleveland is in conjunction with the NFL and a stadium village.

Well the construction was deemed worth it, after completion, one would hope? It drives me nuts when businesses and residents complain about needed construction. Figure it out! There's a way to make any bad temporary situation work without just complaining on Facebook....

Redirecting from St Clair/Superior. @E Rocci hadn't heard about any complaints at Waterloo. What happened there? The only things I've seen there are speed tables and new curbs?

The James R. Barker was stuck in the ice in the harbor at the mouth of the river this morning. Lance Aerial caught some really cool shots of her in a foggy Cleveland seascape. https://www.instagram.com/p/DE4teGdJple/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Never watched it...

RIP Bob Uecker. Us older guys will forever remember his classic Miller Lite commercials.

I'll join the minority dissent. I like them as well. They look like something you might see in a smaller town in Germany.

Beautiful? No...but they were a part of our city scape for over a 100 years, the the last remaining grain silo standing on the Cuyahoga. If anything Buffalo has reason to tear theirs down as they still have dozens of silo complexes still standing there. And, at least initially, the building itself would not have to be purposed into inhabited space. Buffalo has made a rock climbing wall and a ziplining park attached to the silos, which would have fit in perfectly with the Metroparks brand of programming. https://buffaloriverworks.com/things-to-do/summer-fall/silo-climbing/ https://buffaloriverworks.com/things-to-do/summer-fall/zipline/

That's such a shame. Yes greenspace is always desirable, but here we have an iconic and historic structure that could be a special part of this riverfront park. Let's take up a collection to buy Zimmerman an Amtrak ticket to Buffalo to give him a tour of Riverworks.

Sad to see them go. I was definitely rooting for some sort of adaptive reuse ala the Riverworks in Buffalo. Even there they are mainly just decorations and the structures themselves haven't been completely repurposed.

Agreed. I'm personally sick of these guys like Haslam and Goncalves who have no ties here, coming in and making decisions based soley on their wallets. There are many intangibles that go beyond money, but these types don't pay them any consideration.

Here we go....a design from the 1960's can solve our every problem. We just float a new stadium off the harbor, out of the way of Burke and open up the existing land for development! That time San Diego nearly had a floating ballpark Famous Irish designer and architect Eileen Gray probably said it best way back in the early 20th century. "To create, one must first question everything." It's hard to know if the city council members in San Diego were familiar with Gray or that quote or anything having to do with architecture in the 1960s, but they definitely were questioning the way sports stadiums could be built. Forget copying classics like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field. Forget new-age domes. Forget land, even. In 1964, the Chargers and future Padres franchise were nearly gifted a multi-purpose structure out where Great White sharks roamed. Where motor boats cruised by. Where no arena had ever been constructed before. Out in the salty waters of Mission Bay. https://www.mlb.com/news/baseball-floating-stadium-san-diego?partnerId=it-20250114-12295887-mlb-1-A&utm_id=it-20250114-12295887-mlb-1-A&lctg=235559334

You are very optimistic about the leadership of RTA. 😅

Cleveland has far less barriers as there are plenty of older homes with solid bones for the taking. I continue to preach to younger generations to consider a solid Cleveland two or three family as a starter. You have rental income helping subsidize your purchase and upgrades. There are other benefits as well--for instance a tenant moves out of the other unit--you can customize it to your liking, then move into it and rent out the half you were just in. Sure there are some more risks with maintenance etc, but you also have positive rental income helping with this, which you would not have at all in a single family. I restarted this way after a divorce and now have four homes in my inventory.

I was going to say the same thing--RTA already currently struggles on game days with 3 lines converging on Tower City. I don't see them being able to pull off adding enough additional Red Line capacity to make the service usable for the Browns in Brookpark. I'm sure the Haslams have no issue with this as they will want to maximize the cars in their sea of surface lots.

And, notably, there was planned retail, restaurants etc, all with a SEPTA stop and great highway access, that have never been built (save for one venue) . Someone should take the Haslams on a tour there.