igon

Keep in mind that population loss isn't totally bad. If families move out to the burbs, and most with means do (in Ohio), in search of newer housing with modern floor plans, decent schools, and are replaced by wealthier or younger singles and double income no kid couples, the demand for services decrease (schools, etc) and overall income and tax base increase but population will ultimately decrease...it's not necessarily a negative. It's adapting to the new (or since 1950) reality of city living.

I should have also said, Walnut Hills High School affords lower income kids who can't or won't move out of the City of Cincinnati but also want a very solid secondary education....

Walnut Hills is case study for big city schools. Admission is open to any student in the City of Cincinnati who passes a modest admissions test. Its as diverse as Shaker Heights but offers an education to kids whose parents actually care about their educations. This means that Cincinnati can support diverse, higher income city neighborhoods like Hyde Park, Oakley and Mount Lookout where parents can have faith their kids can obtain a quality education through high school while continuing to reside within city limits.

Not sure what the selling proposition for buying a loft is in Downtown Flint, but whatever. No pics of the former Autoworld? Is it still standing?

I don't get it

Looks to more like the "Main Street District" rather than "Business District" because it doesn't appear that there is much business going on other than perhaps Wendy's and Frankie's

I'll also note the one BIG difference between Charlotte and Cincinnati is how Uptown (Downtown) is perceived. People in Charlotte are very proud of Uptown..probably too proud, because while nice, it ain't that great, but the attitude towards Uptown is overly positive. Homes are often advertised by their distance to Uptown and as such there is real demand for Uptown and Uptown near living, which although probably on pause for a while, help contribute to development Uptown and nearby. Rarely is crime mentioned as an issue. Charlotte is also lucky to have some very very high income areas immediately to the south of Uptown which support restaurants, and business location and relocation to the core. It seems that conventional wisdom, while becoming more positive, still shows significant fear of downtown Cincinnati which is sad and mostly unfounded...but perception is reality I guess.

I know that you guys talk about it and I've only scanned this thread, but don't forget that places like Shaker and Hyde Park were when they were built not known as urban, or first ring suburbs, they were suburbs...plain and simple. Couple that with the fact that most of these homes look EXACTLY the same and its only through time that these homes have evolved and trees have grown. Go back to Baxter in 50 years and will look an aweful lot like a mature suburb (however HOA restrictions) may prevent some more drastic changes) the neighborhood may be considered a 4th ring suburb. Pictures of Myers Park and Dilworth when it was built 100 years ago (one of the most exclusive street car suburbs in Charlotte..think Shaker or Hyde Park) looked very similar with some bigger houses, however with 2 inch caliber plantings, etc.. The fact of the matter is that a lot of the older homes in cities like Cincinnati, Charlotte or Cleveland are either expensive, expensive to maintain, have crappy old floor plans and inefficient, or in crappy parts of town. New home construction in "fake" towns like Baxter appeals to people...althought not quite as many who prefer a nice 1/4 acre lot

I'm sure its a nice place to live but it seems very instituonal to me...like I'm on a base or something

Yah...you're right...you did say "not many"...so even if you do include those cities mentioned it still defines "not many".... That being said, so could Charlotte, although the mountains would be closer than the beach...2 vs 4

Let's see...as could: Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, SF/SJ/Oak, DC, Baltimore, Richmond... probably the only cities worth a damn (in my 3 minute analysis) at least...not including the Pacific NW..bc those really arent beaches in the traditional sense... I can't stand Raleigh for Raleigh though...drives me crazy, although I know a lot of people really like it there and I could see why they might...it really is a great place to raise a family.

So you'd want to be in Raleigh because it is closer to places you'd rather want to be outside or Raleigh? Personally, I can't stand Raleigh...great diverse economy, but talk about a soulness suburban mess. One stat I recently read states that Charlotte already has worse sprawl than ATL...relative to their varying sizes. Population density for Greater Charlotte is less than Greater ATL...I forgot where I saw that but it stuck

Wow...if Pittsburgh could actually find a way to grow and attract a critical mass of the demographic that would like to live downtown it would be an awesome city...

Great shots Randy...Who's that idiot in the blue shirt and Reds cap who is in some of your pics? Looks to be following you around or something. Just to clarify..the Metroplois is the new Best Buy/Target just outside of Uptown. The Epicentre is the new development where the Strike City/Whiskey River/Howl are. #45 is classic

Awesome photos. Would love to go back some day

Its suburban Charlotte...not really the middle of nowhere...although it looks that way on the map. Fort Mill (municipality where Baxter is located) has exploded over the past 10 years due to its proximity to NC, lower taxes and great schools. New development anywhere requires a certain percentage of open space (usually 25% plus) so you are going to have tree saves and preserved land everywhere...Many of these trees are located near creeks and their buffers (100' from top bank in most locations) are necessitated by municipalites to preserve water quality....also the topography in some of these areas suck, so they left them preserved and created a network of walking trails.

The builers in Baxter were and are primarily: Saussy Burbank (local) David Weekly (National private out of TX) Beazer (mostly built the TH's) Custom Pulte has a section of TH's under construction right now...that aren't great IMO. All have strict architectural guidelines to adhere to to help create the TND experience (hence, increased cost) We were there on a Saturday AM and there were actually quite a few people out and about, more so than were represented in Rando's pictures. While the Charlotte job market is hurting right now (the arrogance of "it doesn't happen here" is gone), other than a slowdown in sales it's unlikely that it will impact Baxter. In fact because home prices never really took off in Charlotte, the foreclosure rate is still very very low (relative to other places)...hopefully it stays that way. While B of A and Wachovia together employ 34,000 (only 3% of workforce..recognizing the ancillary jobs that depend on the bank that may also evaporate) there is also a lot more to Charlotte than banking...and people are continuing to move here...to the tune of 60,000 per year. I suspect that that'll be lower in the next few years...but not negative. You can get a TH in Baxter in the low 200's and we saw some resales for SF in the mid 400's. The custom stuff is 500K+. It is a little Disneyish (ala Celeberation) but Baxter has been very well executed and to me "feels" better than Celebration and many other TND communities that I have seen. Vickery in ATL (Rando has a thread on this as well) is also well done but it's pricepoint is much higher , its much further out, and it's not nearly as completed...also Hedgewood Homes the majority builder there has gone belly up.

My Two Sense...I live in Charlotte, NC now and have never lived in Cleveland and only spent 9 years of my 33 in SW Ohio, namely Cincinnati and Oxford. I don't doubt that you know more about Shaker because you live there. Shaker because of its history, schools, diversity, and neighborhoods has been and continues to be special and unfortunately unique place. While I hope for the best for the city and schools, I think that a "tipping point" will eventually come, primarily because of the general lack of population growth in the region, especially from young couples with children...and many...not all...of those who do move to Cleveland, will look to other areas for more steady demographics, newer housing stock.....and lower taxes; all of which are partially represented by Shaker's seemingly perpetual population decline of 1% per year. That's all. IMO, Shaker won't become a ghetto, but its eventually schools will lose the diversity that makes it special today...further depressing property values, etc, etc. Personally, I hope I'm wrong.

I love Shaker Heights, and if I had to live in Cleveland, I'd live there and probably send my kids to Shaker Public Schools. My aunt and uncle live on Laurel, right next to the high school (sent their daughter to SPS) so I've been up there a few times a year my entire life (33 years) and while that is by no means the same as growing up there, I have had the pleasure of listening to some big Shaker Boosters talk about their concerns for the city for a long time. The taxes are a huge issue and fewer families with young children (ie going to attend public schools) are moving in because of a variety of reasons, mainly housing costs (relative to what you get further out especially now related to heating and cooling because of housing age and poor insulation), safety concerns (percieved or otherwise), racism, taxes, etc, etc... One point, just recently a family (parents in late 30's) from CA moved in next door. The area where they live has $350K homes...not cheap, not expensive (especially compared to many parts of Shaker) but good for a family making about $100K/year ...They were thrilled to see them move into the neighborhood becuase it had been years since a family (with young kids) moved in on the street. In fact, it was great to just see the home sell becuase it had been on the market for so long, as well as others on the street, at that price point... While I doubt that Shaker will ever turn into the ghetto, my point was that I think it will be a smaller (as a percentage of the whole) diverse rich enclave where parents send their kids to private schools and while much of the remainder loses its diversity and the housing prices decline to the point where parts become worse off (especially those closest to Cleveland and Maple Heights)...Shaker Square is hardley self sufficient and has not become the destination envisioned when "revitalized" a few years ago, and really and unfortunately I think that Shakers future is really tied to the economic future of the Cleveland area, more so than itself... If the Cleveland area can ever turn its act around and attract more jobs and more importantly people, then ultimately the suburbs such as Shaker will benefit as well.

While Shaker is a fine example of a planned streetcar suburbs and these homes (and many more) are beautiful, much of Shaker is working class, white flight continues to plague the city and the taxes are the highest in the state. The future unfortunately does not look bright for Shaker. The rich will stay, send their kids to private schools and most the upper middle class (except for the liberals seeking an extremely diverse schooling for their kids) will continue to flee to Beachwood or points east. Not to mention an extremely high foreclosure rate; My money says don't buy in Shaker....you won't make a thing.

As a former resident of Charlotte, I was first a detracter; initially mocking the incredibly suburban nature of the majority of this city (and lack of soul) but after spending some time there, I began to appreciate what the city has done considering its age and what it had to begin with following the urban renewal projects of the 60's and 70's. Charlotte is primarily a city of transiants, many of whom have followed I-77 south from Cleveland and the growth (60,000+ residents per year) has allowed it to grow both outward and inward. The strength of BofA and Wachovia and its Northeastern transplants have demanded a strong core and leadership in these banks (in particular BofA) of become great civic citizens by fostering development of Uptown; recognizing uptown's strength in recruiting employees. What's different about Charlotte is that there are few if any "urban" areas outside of uptown and the nearby immediately surround neighborhoods, so the competition for entertainment and urban feel are limited. The vacancy rate for uptown office is space is less than 5% and on weekend evenings, the bars and clubs are packed; with few other options. Additionally, there is a sense of adoptive pride in uptown and the attitude about is remarkably positive. As Randy will post however, the barriers to entry are limited for the modern working man, with single family detached housing starting at $500K and fast increasing to $800K in the historic fourth ward, while modern condo prices start at $200 - $300/ft depending on exact location and amenties. For most everyone else, the suburbs are the only option. I greatly anticipate what the CLT will be in 10 years.

Mr. Pope...doesnt everyone on this blog call out everyone else, hence what makes it so damn fun to post? Can you define troller?

I bet Olive Garden is going to be packed...besides free parking, they have great breadsticks. Can Lavamatic top that?

Congrats Akron; While I must applaud this honor I also need to ask two questions. 1. This award is worth what? What if anything tangible (other than a nice sign on I-77 is really going to come of this? 2. Are all the nominees financial supporters of the NCL? And if, so does this impact their survey? Those questions asked, I think any attempt made to improve the economies of Akron and Ohio is should be encouraged and promoted regardless of what "award" comes of it. Props to the citizens of Akron, but I would discount any "status" achieved by this honor

Interesting that Cincinnati is listed as a Top 10 and in this thread and now there's some credibility to this list...I thought all lists suck and are bullshit...ehhemm...Randy