KJP

Anyone else see a sickening irony in this?? ___________________ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070324/ap_on_sc/arctic_bonanza;_ylt=AmnKGQGT.D0DJAhsFi1s_w8PLBIF Riches await as Earth's icy north melts By DOUG MELLGREN, Associated Press Writer Sat Mar 24, 6:34 PM ET HAMMERFEST, Norway - Barren and uninhabited, Hans Island is very hard to find on a map. Yet these days the Frisbee-shaped rock in the Arctic is much in demand — so much so that Canada and Denmark have both staked their claim to it with flags and warships. The reason: an international race for oil, fish, diamonds and shipping routes, accelerated by the impact of global warming on Earth's frozen north. The latest report by the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says the ice cap is warming faster than the rest of the planet and ice is receding, partly due to greenhouse gases. It's a catastrophic scenario for the Arctic ecosystem, for polar bears and other wildlife, and for Inuit populations whose ancient cultures depend on frozen waters.

Absolutely!

I'm working on an article for the Midwest HSR Assoc. newsletter which reveals that the oil and highway lobbies, through the likes of the Reason Foundation, Public Purpose, Buckeye Policy Institute, etc etc, have had a great deal of influence on the FTA under the Bush Administration and Senators Jim Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) and Joseph Knollenberg (R-MI) -- both of whom recently held powerful positions overseeing federal transportation spending and policy. They were the ones responsible for the changing the FTA New Starts criteria that place less emphasis on promoting long-term smart growth and more on short-term cost-effectiveness. Ultimately, their goal is to use federal New Starts transit funding for things like HOV highway lanes for buses and cars. That's just what the oil/highway cabal want.

I think that's old info. I recall several months ago that all of the townhouses in the first phase were sold out. There were more than six units in the first phase, though I can't remember off hand and I'm too tired too look it up.

Hah! When I lived in NYC, there were three girls living across the street who used to do this. They didn't charge money, though... Do you happen to have that street address handy?!?! :-D

No big deal.

As Lorain County grows, with new residents moving in from Cuyahoga County, the need for commuter rail service can only keep growing. :whip:

Not generally. Commuter rail is typically on heavier duty railroad tracks (like the New Haven RR pictures posted by Noozer earlier). Interurban rail typically refers to a light-rail transit type of vehicle that can also operate like a streetcar in the cities. But, as always, there has been some cross-pollenation of these and other types of rail passenger services. Yes, the Youngstown - Niles - Warren area had the Penn-Ohio system, which operated very frequent service generally along what is today US422 between these cities. Youngstown had its own streetcar system, and was served by interurbans to/from New Castle PA as well as Ohio's last interurban, the Youngstown & Southern which ran from downtown Youngstown, through Boardman and into Columbiana County. I believe most of the tracks are still there, as it was also a successful freight operation.

And, in some places, there isn't even a river.

I right-clicked on each of the images, then on Properties, then copy and pasted the web address into my browser. That's the only way I could see the pictures. I liked the first two pictures, most of the rest were OK. But I didn't care for the picture showing the riverside steel mills in the background with the burnt dock piers in the foreground.

Thanks. If you care, you can read more about it here.... http://members.aol.com/Lynnash911/mehitablewing.html http://books.google.com/books?id=lI7Uv4197cQC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=william+mehitable+prendergast&source=web&ots=ML5XRzeDVO&sig=SpYiNEg9t9IvvEVZnxU3DFTz5AY#PPA13,M1 http://www.rays-place.com/history/ny/chau-jamestown.htm http://post-journal.com/pluggedin/articles.asp?articleID=13493

If someone gets me the information about the group or groups involved, I will make inquiries.

Subsidizing the car at one (admittedly large) retail complex to the tune of $181 million? I don't ever want to hear Magyar bitch about subsidies to transit again!!

Watching the movie right now so I did a Google search on some of the streets mentioned. I came across this photo gallery (looks a lot like Cleveland's Little Italy)... http://perrin.olivier.free.fr/new_york_2005/Little%20Italie%20-%20Arthur%20Av%20(Bronx)/index.html

BTW, I just noticed the other day the RTA's 804 (Lakewood Circulator) has a new, permanent jog in its route -- it operates into Cleveland via Clifton, West 115th and Lake. The change was effective March 17. See. http://www.riderta.com/pdf/804.pdf I suspect this jog in the route is intented to serve Starbucks (not to mention many of the other shops (Giant Eagle, Hollywood video, Clifton Web, Flower Power, National City Bank, Charter One, It's It Deli, Tick Tock Tavern, Papa Nicks, and so on) along Clifton between West 117th and 115th.

I'm pretty sure that's a big reason why we're smart growth advocates -- so we don't have to make such long commutes anymore, especially by car.

But, of course, Europe did (around the same time as the US did). But we didn't keep them and, thus, certainly didn't improve them. This is a stadtbahn (or S-bahn) linking cities, in other words, an interurban. Germany has a number of these lines, including routes from Karlsruhe to Freudenstadt in the Black Forest, or the all-double-tracked heavy-duty line between Bonn and Cologne (including sections in subway in the downtown areas). As you can see from these photos, the German interurbans have been modernized over the decades, including the tracks, trains, station and other infrastructure. But some features are historic, including stone bridges, older tunnels and renovated stations. Coming into Karlsruhe, roughly the same population as Akron. You wouldn't believe the number of streetcar and interurban lines Karlsruhe has (including joint operation of streetcars over the same tracks as freight trains and railroad passenger trains). Sigh... A local map of Karlsruhe rail transit services.... A regional map of Karlsruhe rail transit services....

I wasn't sure if you are asking me where I'm staying, but MyTwoSense inadvertently referred to the location. We're staying at the Oxford Hotel (www.oxfordhotellondon.co.uk), just north of Kensington Gardens. The arrow points to the hotel's location on Craven Terrace...

I'm going to be in London for four days in late May, so you've provided a service to more than just mrnyc! Thanks for the info My

I'd love to take the tour, but on Memorial Day weekend, I'll be on my own transit tour -- London, Brussels, Cologne, Frankfurt, Paris. Please let us know how the trips goes, and please share photographs here on UrbanOhio to spread the knowledge!

In the Akron streetcar thread, I noted how the Northern Ohio Traction & Light and the Lakeshore Electric both had double-track, 80 mph, dedicated rights of way once they left Cleveland city streets. Here's some pictures of those alignments.... The NOT&L operated trains between Cleveland and Akron every 20 minutes during rush hours, offering a one-hour trip between those two cities (that, despite the street running in Cleveland and Akron). Here's a photo of a special train operating to Cleveland during the 1920 World Series, shown next to Northfield Road just south of Bedford.... Crossing the Cuyahoga River, between Cuyahoga Falls and Akron... This appears to be the Akron Interurban terminal, complete with a train shed, with a three-car NOT&L train bound for Cleveland... A three-car train headed to/from Cleveland. This appears to be near the end of service in 1932 during the Great Depression, based on the condition of the right of way. Yet, despite the deferred maintenance, the NOT&L kept running its trains at 80 mph to compete with the auto. It resulted in numerous derailments and only caused costs to rise and ridership to erode further... This is a freight motor on the Crittenden Cutoff (you can tell by the heavier-duty catenaries), between Northfield and Silver Lake, which the NOT&L built to replace a slower, curvacious route next to old Route 8 just west. This is where NOT&L trains really flew... A better view of the Crittenden Cutoff... An even better view of the Crittenden Cutoff, also called the Northfield Cutoff. A classic interurban scene if there ever was one... The fate of the interurbans....

Equillibrius, The LSE crossed into Rocky River from Lakewood on the old Detroit Road bridge, part of which still stands and has the bridge building on it. It went straight west across Wooster Road, and ran next to what is the new Detroit Road today. It then turned a little more westerly and made an S-curve under the Nickel Plate RR tracks (Noozer posted the picture above). That same underpass is used by Smith Court today. It turned westerly again, running down the middle of Beaconsfield Blvd and stayed roughly a quarter of a mile south of Lake Road into Bay Village (you have a little too far south on your map). Some places in Rocky River it was a little closer to Lake Road. For example, you can see some of the right of way off Arbor Cliff Lane and Hidden Valley Road in Rocky River. It ran on what is today Electric Blvd, between Upland and Forestview, as well as sections of Electric Blvd farther west. Your routing west of Glen Park is pretty much spot on. As for the Cleveland Southwestern, it had two routes which branched at Kamms Corners. The original Cleveland Southwestern line (full name was the Cleveland Southwestern & Columbus Railway) went south to Medina via Rocky River Drive (it also offered the first electric rail transit to a major airport -- Hopkins). It then turned due south along Eastland Road and went under the B&O at the Rocky River crossing. It headed cross-country toward Prospect Road and then to Subtstation Road in Medina County (that's how that road got its name). From Medina, it turned southwest to Bucyrus. The other Cleveland Southwestern line (originally called the Cleveland, Elyria & Western Railroad until the Southwestern acquired it) crossed the Rocky River valley from Cleveland Kamm's Corners into Fairview Village on an iron bridge with the tracks in the wooden street deck (it made for some interesting car/interurban meets on the narrow bridge!). Through Fairview Village and North Olmsted, the track ran on the south side of Lorain Road. Somewhere near the Lorain County, I still haven't figured out exactly where, it turned due west and went cross-country and began following Center Ridge Road (US 20) into Elyria. On the south side of Downtown Elyria, the line split again. One route went through LaPorte to Grafton. The other went southwest to Oberlin where the line split again. One branch headed due south to Wellington with the other heading westerly to Norwalk. Nearly all of these paralleled steam railroad lines which also offered multiple passenger train services as well. While the electric lines were cleaner (no soot!), they were slower than the steam railroads. But if you wanted to get to your final destination, they were a terrific feeder/collector service. That's why they were the first rail services to see abandonment -- aside from the fact that they were shaky financially to begin with. And, after the Supreme Court forced the split of the transportation, real estate and electric utilities operations of the interurbans, it made the interurbans easy pickings for the likes of National City Lines, Pacific City Lines, Yellow Coach, Greyhound and a myriad of other bus lines who were using an increasing number of paved roads paid for public funding. But, at that time, the interurban, real estate and utility syndicates were seen as the bad boy monopolies that were responsible for the corporate scandals and such that led to the Great Depression, as well as the isolation of rural interests and other societal ills. Funny how the pendulum has swung wholly in the opposite direction to where the automobile and highways are now the monopolies causing all sorts of societal ills. But that's what happens when you put all your economic eggs in one transportation basket.

All I got were red X's

Good idea. Maybe this thread should be renamed? C-Dawg had a photo spread on the subject (but just for Toledo) in the photo section. So I don't think your suggestion would duplicate any thread. Noozer, if you modify your original message by changing the subject line (how about "Ohio rails - what we lost"?), all the other messages will change. I was thinking about doing a photo/map posting to show how extensive the railroad and rail transit services were in the Cleveland - Pittsburgh corridor. And not just how many parallel routes there were, but just how damn busy they were! Consider that Pennsylvania Railroad in the early 1940s operated 100 trains a day southeast from Cleveland toward Pittsburgh via Bedford, Hudson and Ravenna, and more than a third of those were passenger trains! (Although, today, the number of freight trains has recovered, now totalling 70 per day). But, there was also the parallel Erie Railroad line via Solon, Aurora, Garrettsville... which had 20 passenger trains per day in 1940 and twice as many as freight trains. Then, there was the B&O, the NYC/LE&E, the NOT&L, Penn-Ohio, LE&E and P&LE. All but one of these lines went under the long, old Center Street truss bridge in Youngstown. Legend has it that, during World War II, no other bridge in the world had as many rail cars passing beneath it than Center Street's.

Veddy nice!