KJP

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/index.php?ntid=114665&ntpid=1 Amtrak line sets rider record Hiawatha Service called envy of U.S. Amtrak's Hiawatha Service, which runs trains between Milwaukee and Chicago, had more riders in 2006 than ever before. An estimated 588,036 boarded the train at one of the five stations along the Hiawatha Service's route last year, up 8.2 percent from the 544,358 trips made during 2005, according to Amtrak. "This is outstanding news, and it shows that the public wants, and will support, passenger rail service," state Department of Transportation Secretary Frank Busalacchi said. "With 26 straight months of record-breaking ridership, while maintaining among the best on-time performance records, the Hiawatha Service is the envy of Amtrak managers nationwide." "The ridership increases are reflective of the investments we've made in the train sets and infrastructure all along the line," Busalacchi said. "As a result of the increased ridership, we anticipate the need to add an additional car on each of the Hiawatha Service runs later this year to eliminate the times when there's standing room only." He noted the recent opening of the new Sturtevant and Mitchell Airport rail stations and the current remodeling of the downtown Milwaukee station as indicative of the support Wisconsin has for passenger rail. Wisconsin provides a subsidy to cover 75 percent of the operating costs of the Hiawatha Service with the state of Illinois providing the remaining 25 percent. Amtrak Hiawatha Service includes seven round trips daily, six on Sunday, with stops at the Milwaukee downtown, Mitchell International Airport, Sturtevant, Glenview and Chicago stations. A one-way ticket from Milwaukee's downtown station to Chicago's downtown station costs $21. Published: January 12, 2007

They would back the Mercury into the western side of the station just far enough that the steam locomotive was outside of the station. That way, the soot wouldn't get into the station.

Big time! I'm surprised only 13 people have checked out this video. It's pretty hilarious.

I'll bet the bridge is still suitable for passenger trains. It has been in continuous and well maintained and was recently rehabilitated for about $22 million. I think you should look at the bridge from below to determine its condition. There are numerous steel and concrete bridges around Greater Cleveland that are less substantial yet carry loaded coal trains (each loaded coal car weighs up to 125 tons). And, actually, steam locomotives did operate into Cleveland Union Terminal on a fairly regular basis, including New York Central's massive Niagara locomotives that probably weighed 200 tons (nearly twice the weight of today's heaviest freight cars loaded). New York Central's "Mercury" between Cleveland and Detroit routinely kept its steam locomotive to avoid the time spent switching electric for steam at Linndale, and vice-versa upon its return in the afternoon. Here's a rendering, but accurate: I also have a book showing a Nickel Plate RR freight train hauled by a large Berkshire steam locomotive detouring via CUT due to a derailment. I'll scan it sometime and post it. It's pretty cool to see. And, yes, passenger trains could physically return to CUT, but at a price. It would require rerouting the Red Line north on or under West 25th to Detroit Avenue, then on the subway deck of the Detroit-Superior high-level bridge, and then enter CUT with a short crossover. Also, the Waterfront Line's inbound ramp to Tower City would have to be kept at a lower level for a little longer distance (250 feet?) so passenger train tracks could travel above it.

That's a candidate for "best quotes on UrbanOhio!"

I've always thought you were too well informed to suggest a short transit link like that would cost $2 billion. But I've been disappointed before (thankfully I toned down my original message or I'd be feeling worse). So, yes, please use an emoticon for a sarcastic statement since tone of voice doesn't come through in text. But, my reply to your message got me thinking... How about these routing options? (scroll right to see whole thing):

$2 billion? Please think more carefully before you throw around numbers like that. First, consider that the gold-plated Waterfront Line cost $35 million per mile (including the large Settlers Landing park). First of all, you wouldn't want to build a light-rail line just to a low-density development like SYC. If light-rail is to serve SYC, it should be an enroute stop on a longer, overall transit corridor. A likely possibility would be the Cleveland - Parma corridor discussed at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8513.0 But, let's consider the portion from Tower City to SYC first. A light-rail line could be split off the Red Line near West 25th, head south on West 25th as a streetcar, and then go around the east side of the MetroHealth Medical Center. Serve SYC via an enclosed walkway over I-71 with an elevator/stairwell dropped down to SYC. Via this alignment, the distance from the Ohio City Red Line station to a MetroHealth/Steelyard station could be about 1.75 miles. Using the Waterfront Line as a guide, the construction cost could be about $60 million for this 1.75-mile segment. That's a bit less than $2 billion. The capital cost of extending the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic RR north from Independence to downtown, via SYC, will also be significantly cheaper than $2 billion. Maybe it will be $25 million. Perhaps $50 million. The engineering isn't done yet. But it won't be $2 billion. Please use more care next time.

Mueller is still listed on PURE's site. Don't know what that means.

Yes, I have. Stark's answer is: density. No piece of land in the "Pesht" development will be exclusively parking (surface or decked). If you look at The Avenue District, the most densely developed part (with the 8- to 10-story loft condos) has buildings that ring the perimeter of a huge parking deck. Instead, Stark's vision is to have the parking levels above the ground-floor retail and below the housing/offices. This stacking of uses, including parking, is revenue-intensive. Plus, Stark isn't buying any land. He's partnering with the existing property owners. My understanding is that public funding will be limited to tax abatements for the buildings and TIFs for supportive infrastructure (streets, sidewalks, etc). The TIF could also include county sales taxes generated by the development, not just the usual property and income taxes.

OK, here's a couple more photos (thanks to the late Dave McKay) of a train that last ran 30 years ago today. Hard to believe it's been that long. Thanks to BuckeyeB and others for pointing out the losses that transcended the loss of this train (including most of the railroad line it used from Cleveland to Youngstown -- as well as the access to Cleveland Union Terminal). May 1971 wasn't kind to the U.S. passenger rail industry. On May 1, Amtrak took over for the private railroads and, overnight, the U.S. lost half of its passenger trains. Cleveland went from 16 daily trains to two -- the eastbound and westbound Erie-Lackawanna commuter train. Here's the commuter leaving downtown Cleveland shortly after 5:20 p.m. on a May 1971 afternoon for Youngstown, paralleling the CTS and Shaker rapid tracks: In the early 1970s, once you got east of Solon, you were in the countryside. My family moved to Bainbridge (one mile from the E-L line and Geauga Lake) in 1978, and it was still very rural back then. Today, it's McMansionland. East of Aurora toward Mantua, it was even more rural, and still is to some extent today. The commuter train's heaviest ridership was always between Cleveland and Aurora, diminishing to a handful of passengers left on board by the time it reached Youngstown. Here is the commuter train, zipping eastbound at 70 mph (track speed) by a water-filled sand quarry next to the intersection of Mennonite and Infirmary roads, between Aurora and Mantua, on May 12, 1972:

I think it's at the Western Reserve Historical Society.

That place looks a little like Mars Bar in Lakewood (at Madison and Mars avenues). Alvie's downtown on Ontario was like that too. But I think that's the Ontario Cafe today. I haven't been in there since I graduated from college.

There's at least a half-dozen books on Cleveland Union Terminal, and several of those images were scanned from books about CUT or trains that served CUT.

I've posted some picture of Cleveland Union Terminal at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=11674.msg154755#msg154755 That Jefferson depot is a beauty!

I didn't realize you were that hungry for any interior shots of Cleveland Union Terminal! I do have other interior shots of the railroad portion Cleveland Union Terminal -- I just don't have any of the E-L commuter train inside CUT. So here's some views of Cleveland Union Terminal. Let's start outside and work our way in... First, if you were on any of the 12-14 daily Erie passenger trains to/from Solon, Youngstown, Pittsburgh and New York City, or the six daily B&O trains to/from Akron, Youngstown, Pittsburgh and Washington DC, or the six daily Nickel Plate RR trains to/from Buffalo, or the 24 New York Central trains to/from Buffalo and New York Central.... this is the first hint that you were about to arrive at Cleveland Union Terminal. These are the east approach tracks to the station: Some of the six station platforms and 12 tracks seen in 1930, shortly after the station opened: West end of station: East end of station (at left are Shaker RTS tracks): One of the stairwells from track level to the station above: Granted, these people are lining up in 1934 at CUT to see one of the many brand-new streamliners that will become common in the next decade or two. But, hey, it's a train at track level: These people are descending the stairwell from the station concourse to the track level so they can board New York Central's streamlined Mercury for Toledo and Detroit which rolled at 90 mph in some sections: No escalators were available as of July 17, 1945 to get from track level to the station concourse above, when a Cleveland newspaper published this cartoon urging the installation of escalators. CUT was owned by a private company, the Cleveland Union Terminals Co., which could not afford to maintain the massive station complex despite the high usage fees assessed against the private railroads. CUT finally bowed to public pressure, adding them only to two stairwells and then only for travelers going up from track level. Here is CUT's main concourse in 1930 when it was brand new. This view is looking north towards the rapid transit concourses and Public Square. The stairwells are in the middle of the floor: Main concourse looking south toward the Cuyahoga River in 1930: A south view in the main concourse in 1969 (remember the huge Welcome to Cleveland" mural?): Looking north in 1980, on Cleveland Union Terminal's 50th anniversary: For those of you too young to remember Cleveland Union Terminal before it was completely reconfigured as Tower City Center, this how things were arranged prior to 1990:

The part of town he grew up in is pretty average.

OK, since MTS let one out of the bag regarding Nieman Marcus (thanks, MTS -- interesting stuff), I'll let a hint out.... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2591.msg154686#msg154686

The following is a compilation of tidbits of information from about a half-dozen sources... Cimperman, as chair of council's planning committee and council's rep to the City Planning Commission and Landmarks Commission has been meeting with Stark recently. My understanding is that it is in regards to an upcoming presentation he will make, probably to the Landmarks Commission. Any new construction in an historic district like the Warehouse District has to go before Landmarks. I don't yet know what will be in the presentation, but rumors are that it will be for phase one of Pesht and that Stark is shooting for making an announcement in the first quarter of 2007. I say all of this with a big word of caution -- because it is from a number of different sources. But these rumors are like puzzle pieces that are fitting together enough so that a picture is beginning to emerge. There's still some missing pieces, so I don't yet have a full grasp of the complete picture.

When the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad held their spring fundraiser for Cleveland executives and other wealthy people, they held it in RTA's Central Rail Facility off East 55th. They turned the maintenance building into a red-carpet showplace. Background over... How did these high-rollers get there? CVSR had a valet on Prospect at Tower City. Guests went down to the Shaker Rapid station platforms where there were white-gloved attendants offering champagne, hors doevres and gift bags. RTA provided a dedicated express shuttle Shaker rapids (one of the recent rebuilds) from Tower City into the maintenance building at Central Rail. RTA did the same thing during the International Children's Games -- offering dedicated express shuttle Red Line trains from the airport to downtown for arrivals. And they ran three-car Green Line shuttles to downtown for those coming from sporting venues at John Carroll to the Malls. It can be done.

Sorry for leading you on. I mistyped. Speaking of which, I think Mov2Ohio is correct, that a bookstore was proposed as part of Wolstein's plan.

Amen. Amen, Part II! Hey guys, when are we going to form a business comprised of UrbanOhioans to provide these tours? We already have experience in this, thanks to Justin Glanville and Erin Aleman (Emerging Cleveland tours for ex-pats). There are others here who also know their way around (and not by limo) to cool urban places (and not Crocker Park). http://www.clevelandcityliving.com/article.php?7 Or for those who haven't seen it lately, check out: http://www.comehometocleveland.com/

X, I forgot about the large bookstore!

Tomorrow, Jan. 14, 2007, marks 30 years since Ohio had a commuter train. The last commuter train was operated by Conrail between Youngstown and Cleveland. Conrail took over operation from the Erie-Lackawanna RR (Erie RR prior to 1960) on April 1, 1976 when Conrail was formed from the E-L, Penn Central, Reading, Lehigh Valley, Lehigh & Hudson River and Central RR of New Jersey -- all bankrupt railroads. I will post more photos as I have time. But I thought I'd start by showing the stations along the route, and then add some photos, timetables and stories. Feel free to add anything you might have... Here is the commuter train on March 22, 1976, backing over Interstate 490 near I-77, from Erie-Lackawanna's East 55th Yard to Cleveland Union Terminal for the afternoon departure to Youngstown and many other towns along the way: ++++++++++++++++ The Youngstown - Cleveland commuter train stopped at stations at all of these cities, towns and crossroads (from east to west): + Youngstown (Erie Station off Wick Avenue)(Building still stands) PHOTOS: In the 1920s: In 1960, as Erie RR eastbound "Morning Steel King" train paused from its daily 2.5-hour dash between Cleveland to Pittsburgh: Last day of commuter service, Jan. 14, 1977: In 1980s, tracks are gone but right of way not yet filled in: + Girard (south of Liberty Street)(site condition unknown) + Niles (Mahoning at Pratt)(foundation is still visible) PHOTO: Seen in the 1980s shortly before demolition: + Warren (Park Ave south of South St.)(no visible remnant of station) + Leavittsburg (Leavitt Road)(no visible remnant of station) PHOTO: + Phalanx (Braceville-Robinson Road)(no visible remnant of station) PHOTO: + Mahoning (Parkman Road)(no visible remnant of station) PHOTOS: + Garrettsville (at SR88)(no visible remnant passenger station/freight station still stands) PHOTOS: Freight station: Passenger station: + Hiram-Jeddoe (at SR700)(no visible remnant of station) + Mantua (at SR44)(Building still stands) PHOTO: + Aurora (at SR82)(Building still stands) PHOTOS: + Geauga Lake (on Depot Road)(Building recently demolished) + Solon (on Bainbridge Road)(Building rebuilt with major addition after fire in 1990s) PHOTOS: + North Randall (on old Aurora Road east of Warrensville Rd)(Building still stands) PHOTO: + Lee Road (south of Miles Ave.)(Building still stands -- last time I saw) PHOTO: + East 93rd (at Richmond Ave.)(No visible remnant of building) + East 55th (at Track Ave.)(No visible remnant of building) PHOTO: + Cleveland Union Terminal (now Tower City Center) PHOTO: NOTE: prior to 1946, Erie RR trains, including the commuter train, served downtown Cleveland at Erie RR station in the Flats. The brick depot, between the Waterfront Line and the Detroit-Superior bridge, was demolished in the early 2000s. Its trainshed was demolished long ago. PHOTOS: Recent photo: 1928 photo (train shed is visible):

No need to be nasty MTS. The guy has his preferences, as we all do. I, for one, despise the land use plan for the West 117th/Target site. The Councilwoman Dona Brady also wanted Target built next to West 117th. Between that and the Home Depot up the street, closer to the Red Line station, the emphasis is on automobile access and not the pedestrian. If I were mayor of Cleveland, I would have asked Home Depot to relocate to the Target site next to I-90 and then asked Target to take the Home Depot property and bulldoze it. In its place, I'd put Target next to West 117th at the northeast corner of the property, closest to the Rapid station and mix in some more retail and possibly some housing above. The Bob Stark-owned Staples Plaza across the street is also in need of replacement with a more pedestrian-oriented setting. Those features would more closely resemble Cudell Improvement Corp.'s land use plan for the area. See http://www.cleveland.oh.us/cudell/happening.htm

I'm not too disappointed with the grocery store situation downtown right now. You've got Constantino's in the Warehouse District and the expanding grocery store in Reserve Square. Plus, with Dave's in Ohio City and in Chinatown, it's not a huge gaping hole in the market. Granted, it would be great to have a full-service grocery store on Public Square or near East 4th, but I don't consider the grocery store situation to be an outright omission anymore. A subway, yeah that's a toughie. The bakery situation isn't as glaring as it used to be either. Aladdin's Bakery and Market at 1301 Carnegie is a terrific asset for downtown. Plus, the West Side Market is only the next station west on the Red Line from Tower City Center. And, Constantino's makes a lot of its own baked goods (and prepared meals for take-out or eat-in). Any basic services missing downtown? I remember someone saying that downtown lacked a real good gym/recreation center. But I thought the Cleveland Athletic Club was decent, and there's the new gym at CSU.