KJP

Interesting to hear about the properties east of Jacobs Field. Actually, it's all interesting!

If that's a prediction of life in the post-peak world, then it doesn't wash. Having more cars get better MPG only slows the descent down other side of the peak -- and doesn't slow it very much. We consume so much oil that it would take revolutionary changes in land use, building design, and major shifts in market share to walking, biking, transit and high-speed rail. Could we afford to make such revolutionary changes with the economy in disarray? Think of it this way: America is the largest consumer of oil, followed by the European Union, China, Japan.... We would have cut our oil consumption in half to equal the combined consumption of the six largest nations of Europe (having the same total population as America). To accomplish that, American cities and transportation systems would have become more like Europe's. That's pretty revolutionary. Can you imagine how much that would cost? And that's assuming Americans can admit to being in denial about the extent of their predicament and start making the hard choices about being more responsible.

Loved that Kunstler piece. I would love to write a time-travel piece, in which someone from around the same time, 1946, travels forward 75 years (just to pick a figure, and because it's the future so I could take some liberties with the fiction). The time traveler, who remembers cities as vibrant places, is heart-broken to find ruined city neighborhoods, downtowns devoid of pedestrians and suburbs where pedestrians would get killed if they tried crossing the street. He also finds factories shuttered, Americans too poor from trying to make ends meet working retailing jobs but forced to drive to work, fears of terrorism abound, and gas prices skyrocketing to the point that some people have to forego their housing and instead live out of their cars (that's one of the liberties I would take with the fiction). How's that for a future?

Never heard of that movie.

Trolleyville's old location in Olmsted Falls/Olmsted Township was closed last summer. Trolleyville's collection of streetcars, interurbans and other equipment were moved first to the former Shaker Rapid station beneath Tower City Center and most if not all of the collection was moved again to an unused warehouse at the Port of Cleveland, north of Browns Stadium. See.... http://www.trolleyvilleusa.org/

I thought a city like Paris would have had trams (aka streetcars).... ______________ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6186161.stm (Article, photos and video available at the above link)

MisterGoodDay was one of them. I forget who the other one was, but I suspect it was Blinker12

Thanks. But I encourage anyone reading this to tell their federal officials what you think! A sample letter appears below. Mail letters to their local offices, not to D.C. -- security screening of the mail takes forever. Here are their addresses: The Hon. Stephanie Tubbs-Jones District 11 U.S. House of Representatives 3645 Warrensville Center Road Beachwood, OH 44122 The Hon. Dennis Kucinich District 10 U.S. House of Representatives 14400 Detroit Avenue Lakewood, OH 44107 The Hon. Sherrod Brown ---> add a congrats in the letter for his winning election to the Senate! District 13 U.S. House of Representatives 205 W. 20th Street, Suite M230 Lorain, OH 44052 The Hon. George Voinovich U.S. Senate 1240 East 9th Street Cleveland, OH 44199 Betty Sutton ---> add a congrats in her letter for winning election to the House! Representative-Elect 13th District 1700 W. Market Street, #155 Akron, OH 44313 Here's a sample letter........ Dear _________: I am writing to you today to ask for your support of developing commuter rail service in the West Shore Corridor, from downtown Cleveland west into Lorain County. I understand that $1.5 million in federal funds is needed for an analysis to see if commuter rail is the best way to get people to their jobs, school, shopping, medical appointments and other destinations in the corridor. Add some personal thoughts about (pick a couple): > economic development/job creation at stations/boosting downtown > reverse commutes for city residents > part of a new vision for the region > compete with other urban areas for young professionals > gas prices, environmental issues > funding for Quiet Zones to eliminate train horns And end with something like: "Please consider my comments as you consider whether to support this project" or "I hope you will be able to support funding for the analysis of the West Shore Corridor so the project can move forward." But please use your own words as much as possible. Remember, you don't need to write a Pulitzer prize-winning piece. It's more important that you get it done and send it in so they can record your comments. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Let's not get carried away. Here's what I see separating those who support West Shore commuter rail and those who don't... Supporters tend to be those who envision a dynamic urban core in their metro area's future and look for tools to build it. They see rail as one of those tools and are willing to take risks to push public policy toward that end. Opponents see the trends of the past and believe it portends the future. Accordingly, they design their policy to fall in line with the trend. They feel powerless as Greater Cleveland fails to grow in population but keeps growing in land area. They see transportation investments more so as a means to serve the trend, and less of a means to change it. So, let's focus on the positive, which isn't limited to Joe Cimperman on Cleveland City Council. Aviation & Transportation Committee Chair Kevin Kelley is a big supporter, as is Ward 15's Brian Cummins, and Ward 18's Jay Westbrook. Others are coming on line.

Don't worry that much about Joe. We need him and RTA for commuter rail's use of a couple of RTA facilities. We don't need or want their money. BTW, Cleveland Councilman Joe Cimperman was at the meeting Wednesday in Lakewood. But I think he was at a different meeting than the one attended by the other "Joe C." Why? Cimperman said he thought the meeting was "thrilling" and "wonderful" and wants to get commuter rail added to the city's long-range plan.

Jump from http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3594.msg148076#msg148076 To that point, I especially liked this part of the story from the last article: and re-facing and upgrading the exterior façade of the existing 150,000 square-foot, five-story building. This would hopefully make the building blend in more to that area of downtown, including the new townhouses of the Avenue District. The developer may have asked for $5 million, but he probably expected less. Whether in labor negotiations or grantwriting (except when I write them!), you always ask for more than you expect to get, but have a plan in case you get more than you anticipated. The $2.5 million gives the developer's project lots of credibility with private lenders.

Committee seeks site for new senior center Toledo Blade, 12/14/06 Senior citizens living in the southeastern part of Wood County will soon have another senior center to visit that's closer to home. Representatives from the Wood County Committee on Aging (WCCOA) have just begun meeting with officials from four Wood County villages to determine where its newest senior center should be located.

Welcome back. I was wondering what happened to ya.

As long as Joe C doesn't mess it up. While everyone I spoke with at the meeting said it was a good event, even a terrific one, Joe C said it was a terrible meeting. And, that same day, he met with a Voinovich staffer and said some unflattering things about the commuter rail project. Joe loves his buses. As a matter of RTA policy, he sees transit funding in Greater Cleveland as a zero-sum game. In other words, if you add a transit service somewhere, a transit service somewhere else has to be cut to pay for it, per RTA's current policy. He told me he thought he might have to cut the 326 route (along Detroit Ave) in order to pay for the commuter rail service. I realize making do with what you've got was the sad situation under the Taft regime, but there's no reason to expect it to continue under Strickland. He seems to understand the importance that better transit means having healthier cities. And here's an emerging constituency for more transit in the West Shore to expand the funding pie. Joe C is chair of the Ohio Public Transit Association. I would have hoped he would see that one of the goals of this emerging constituency is to seek more transit funding. While we'll probably need RTA's backing to use some of their station facilities and have feeder buses, we don't need their financial support for this project to move foward. This is going to be headed by Lorain County. By the same token, I certainly don't need someone in his position (as a transit agency GM and chair of OPTA) to say disparaging things about a transit project -- especially to a senator's staffer.

Nah, they just turned to Congress to overturn Reagan's kill-Amtrak proposals. During that whole battle in the early- to mid-1980s, Congress got more letters, calls and telegrams from constituents on Amtrak than on any other issue -- except Social Security, which Reagan was also trying to trim.

I wondered what happened to him.... What did happen to him?

My favorite real organization acronym/name was from West Virginia in the 1980s -- TRAIN (Tell Reagan Amtrak Is Needed).

Buffalo's is light rail, but a long section of it is in subway. Pittsburgh's is also light-rail, with the downtown portion is in a subway. While Buffalo's was built entirely in the 1980s, Pittsburgh's old rail transit routes were completely rebuilt in the 1980s (including construction of the downtown subway).

That corridor had two daily long-distance round-trip trains on it, serving it during daylight hours. It had service on it that the state didn't pay for, and was usable even with the delays suffered by these long-distance trains. To my knowledge, only one corridor service like this started from scratch -- Portland, Maine to Boston. Even there, a large portion of that route had commuter rail service on it, meaning it had fewer barriers to overcome than it would otherwise if the commuter service hadn't existed. Amtrak trains had some stations to serve, decent tracks over the southern portion of the route and layover facilities in Boston.

Music please... "I've got the power! It's gettin', it's gettin', it's gettin' kinda hectic!" :banger:

Anyone who knows these answers shouldn't be spending time here. Rather, they should be visiting www.nymex.com and spending money on the futures markets!

The Victoria Transport Institute did an analysis a couple years ago showing that well-designed arterials can move rush hour traffic as fluidly as an urban expressway, yet provide a much more attractive urban setting and neighborhood economic development. I don't have the link handy, but check around http://www.vtpi.org/

Not true. See: http://www.gcrta.org/pdf/presentations/2006-12-05-E120_Station.pdf http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1977.msg140058#msg140058 Look for more news on the project at the following link, as Shaker Heights and RTA hire a consultant to oversee more transit-supportive land uses at Lee and Van Aken: http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/planning/ShakerTownCenterAreaRedevelopment.asp Two posts on the same subject (first an article, then renderings): http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1977.msg96635#msg96635 http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1977.msg96839#msg96839 http://www.windermererenaissance.org/index.htm http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3702.msg36031#msg36031 And the warehouse conversions along the West 10th Street section of the Flats all happened after the Waterfront Line went in. Some were stalled plans that got a boost from the project's announcement in 1994, and the plans were redesigned to provide entrances and retail spaces facing the rail line. And I don't know if I would put the EcoVillage n in the same category, but it was sought at the West 65th station by design. So there!

Damn, 90 mph? Damn!

We had another decent meeting of the stakeholders today. The agenda progressed again. Lakewood Mayor Tom George welcomed the 50 persons in attendance, and said that while concerns remain about heavy freight traffic, he was excited about the prospect for commuter rail on the West Shore Corridor. He cited the opportunity for strengthening downtown Lakewood (one of the few Cleveland suburbs with a true downtown) and boosting property values along the corridor with better crossing protection and quiet zones. Lakewood Hospital VP of Operations William Baddour spoke next, saying the hospital is a critical stakeholder in the West Shore Corridor and is excited about commuter rail. They see the rail service as a way to enhance access to the hospital, primilary for workers. We had a very cool presentation by seven Lakewood High School students who prepared designs and a model of a proposed station for downtown Lakewood. I'll see if I can get a copy of their renderings and a photo of the model to post in this thread. They did a lot of research on Nickel Plate Railroad Co. station designs and visited the surviving NKP depot in Rocky River. They did a terrific job. I gave a brief report from the stations subcommittee Nov. 15 meeting, in the absence of its chair Bob Parry, Westlake's director of planning and economic development. Basically I gave a rundown of the various station locations that were looked at during the NOACA NEOrail study from four years ago, and what conditions may have changed since. The best news followed. Bay Village Law Director Gary Ebert reported on a meeting held the day before between him, the law directors of Lakewood and Rocky River, and with Norfolk Southern VP Bill Harris. In that meeting, Harris told the law directors that adding commuter rail to its West Shore tracks would not be a problem for NS and would not break the agreement they have with Bay, RR and Lakewood. The agreement limits the number of daily freight trains to 14 -- the current number is about 4-7 daily. The law directors asked Harris for a letter from NS stating their position. Following Ebert's report, I asked all those present who serve on city councils, county commissions, chamber boards and so on to consider passing a resolution to ask the Ohio Congressional Delegation to provide $1.5 million for an alternatives analysis that's needed to nail down the best way to improve transit in the West Shore Corridor, identify capital and operating costs, issues affecting the natural and built environments along the corridor and to carry out an extensive public involvement process. I brought copies of a sample resolution with me, and many officials took the copies with them. All that, and we adjourned early.