Pete

As far as the retail space goes, it's a good idea for a coffee shop, ice cream shop, etc. Although this may not be a fair comparison, one of the things that makes the Mall feel dead is that lacks any commercial activity (unless you count panhandlers or hot dog vendors). The mall is beautiful but absent of life. I don't want Perk Park to end up the same way. The recently closed Atlanta Bread was the only commercial space on the park and it really added life to its' corner of the park. I think they hit the nail on the head in terms of identifying the aspects of the park that make it suck such as the low elevation, and concrete bunkers. Some "do not feed the pigeons, $50 fine" signs like Public Square has might help too. Question: is the city going to do the E 12th Street streetscape project on the west side of 12th by the Diamond Building and this park? It looks vastly improved across the street at Reserve Square. Still too much concrete and not enough trees, but much better.

The prevailing office-location rumor at Baker Hostetler is that their preferred alternative is to move to the new Jacob's building on Public Square from the National City Building. They would need 100,000+ SF of space, and depending on how much "+" it could be enough to get financing to build the proposed building.

KJP - you knew what you wanted to say and you sounded intelligent while saying it. Many people who spoke up were just average citizens, and they struggled a bit speaking in front of such a crowd (I'm glad they spoke however). Some were just microphone hogs who spoke without really saying anything. And then there was Ed Houser's annoying ramblings about mostly nonsense... You were a better speaker than most of the bureaucrats, all of the social service advocates, and even better than a politician or two. After all, you are a paid All Aboard Ohio spokesman, aren't you?

This morning when I walked past 668 on Euclid there were 4 union men outside picketing. This evening, there was a uniformed security guard standing on the exact spot where the union picketers stood earlier in the day. Not knowing what transpired, it made me wonder if K&D hired security to get rid of the picketers.

Thanks KJP and all of the other knowledgeable persons who spoke today at The Ohio 21st Century Transportation Priorities Task Force in Cleveland tonight. KJP was polished and insightful. I missed the beginning, but from what I saw Cleveland Ward 9 Councilman Kevin Conwell was one of the best transit advocates (and one of the only speakers that actually sounded like a leader). The things the public was asking for over and over again were better public transit and high speed rail. People want speedy on time buses, walkable neighborhoods, and the ability to get to/from jobs via transit across county borders. I interpret that to mean that they want signal prioritization for buses, land use planning for TOD around transit stops, state funding along with legislative action to make transit operation based on MPO versus county, and high speed rail funding versus more lanes on 70/71/75/77/80/90 etc.

The last post may have been in jest, but does anybody suppose that Forest City may be willing to strike a deal? If the Mall site is chosen for the convention center the county administration complex will be demolished for a new hotel/med mart. The county will need other office space, so maybe they'll make a deal and lease the remainder of the Higbee Building from Forest City.

There is no way that the county government will be in Jacobs' tower. First, the county commissioners have spotty credibility when it comes to making major financial decisions lately, so purchasing the most expensive office space in town would likely damage their political credibility even further. They need to improve credibility with voters (especially during an economic downturn), not lease prime space on the square. If the county moves their offices, they are going to consolidate most of the offices scattered around town onto one site, and will likely need to lease their own building. Anybody that has worked in one of the buildings where the county leases space knows that county offices do not make good neighbors. Most county offices are social services (drug rehab, family services, mental health, etc.). The targeted tenants with deep pockets desiring Class A offices will not lease space in a building with druggies running around screaming at people in the elevators and psychos defecating in stairwells. The county needs a modern but mostly empty building with low rents (like EOG at E.9th & Superior) at around $12 a foot versus $30 per foot rent in a new tower.

I suppose that Mr. Bullard failed to realize that the Crooked River Brewery building that will become the strip club isn't "on the Flats’ West Side". Simple geography, but generally people consider things to the east of the river the Flat's East Side. One must cross the Center Street swing bridge over the Cuyahoga River to get to the Flat's West Side from the old brewery building.

I agree with gavster but there is no way to get an outdoor "pedestrian plaza" through from Euclid to Prospect without taking out part of the building. But one can see in the google street view map i linked to earlier that there is no space between those 2 buildings, so something has to come out (historic tax credits or not) to put a "pedestrian plaza"/driveway through.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=668+Prospect+Ave+E,+Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio+44115,+United+States&sll=40.433066,-82.987955&sspn=0.008068,0.013154&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=0,41.498654,-81.687700&layer=c&t=h&cbll=41.498537,-81.688541&panoid=wGou2qjlKDETHaSS54yHqg&cbp=1,348.78957844085437,,0,-22.309489480954642&ll=41.502182,-81.691418&spn=0.007939,0.013154&z=16 Does anybody actually know the details on the "pedestrian plaza"? Does K&D plan to demolish the mostly vacant building on Prospect in addition to the Dollar Bank Building? If so, that could be where the intend to create green space. Also note that along about half the length of the Colonial Marketplace on the 668 side is its' parking garage ramp, not a place to put "windows into ground-floor retail."

Their rendering shows a strip of grass instead of the Holiday Inn. Obviously the are not going to demolish it. A car in a bus-only lane is what's annoying, but the rest of the rendering is not quite correct either (a missing building for example). Since it's meant to be a pretty picture they glossed over several details, but my point is that it's as stupid as painting a picture of a freeway with a horse drawn carriage driving down it.

Previous comments on this site were generally opposed to demolishing the Dollar Bank Building in favor of a driveway and I also had bad feelings about K&D's commitment to embracing the transit friendly Euclid Avenue Healthline. But in their rendering they ignore the premise of the Healthline: they put cars driving in the BUS ONLY LANE. Morons. They also replaced the Holiday Inn Express with grass, so maybe I shouldn't get too upset about the little details, but that really annoys me. I'd rather see a driveway that is part of a market-rate apartment complex than this abandoned building that smells like urine every time I walk past. Dollar Bank is possibly the ugliest building in Downtown, except for 668 itself and a few parking garages.

Throughout the Public Square area left turns are prohibited everywhere you look. That is annoying as hell, confusing to folks not familiar with downtown, and requires cars/buses to sit at more intersections than really necessary. Superior is really just a 1-lane road already (the other is bus-only) and Ontario has the majority of traffic volume. Rerouting the traffic from Ontario around a circular pattern is where the issues come in. Squeezing 3-4 lanes that can handle modern trucks and RTA buses to circle around the outside of the square is a geometric nightmare at best. This is what some traffic engineers (they are not all evil, but many are :wink: ) will tell you: To re-route a portion of this traffic from the I-90 vicinity to the St. Clair/Lakeside vicinity means taking E. 9th (already over capacity) or would put a lot more traffic on Huron/W9th and Prospect/W6th and the problem with shifting traffic there is that those intersections are dysfunctional already. So what the city needs is an overhaul of their mid 20th century traffic control systems to a modern centralized, computerized system to improve efficiency. But the traffic cops always ignore the signals (and pedestrians) and do whatever the hell they feel like anyway. Since I am a pedestrian at the square more often than a driver, it'd be awesome to see the square opened up, but crossing to it would SUCK. Unless it is a 4-way intersection, drivers simply don't pay attention or don't care to stop at red lights. Observe E. 9th and Vincent or Superior at the Arcade or Superior at W. 3rd. There are lights and crosswalks, but cars go flying through them on red all the time because drivers are in a rush, or more likely just morons. There are so many pedestrians on the square that it'd be dangerous. Solution: Divide the square in 2, an east rectangle and a west rectangle. Leave Ontario to bisect only the north and south ends of the square itself. Divert the through-movement Superior traffic around the square. Left/right turning Superior traffic already goes around the outside anyway. Ped crossings at the middle of the square would probably not be allowed (because to many ioiot drivers don't like to stop for crosswalks not at intersections).

A important factor to consider when building towers in Downtown Cleveland is the poor soils. Remember, Downtown is built on the pile of crap leftover when the glaciers receded. Downtown has some of the worst soil (or lack of shallow rock) in the region. Here is some history: (quotes from http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/cleveland/fghistory.html) "As Cleveland is located between New York and Chicago, design inspiration for Cleveland's high rise buildings came from both cities. Unfortunately, much of this "lofty" inspiration has been dampened by weak bearing soil." "the Terminal Tower’s foundations were heroic. Hand dug caissons, 250’ deep, support the building." "Both buildings [55 Building, East Ohio Building] were built on slab foundations, which limited the building’s height to 22-stories (or so), thus "ducking" the soils issue." "the Fed rose to 32 stories (it also included a beautiful landscaped plaza) and did not "duck" the soils issue. Because of that, the Federal Building bears mute testimony to the unyielding characteristic of Cleveland's mucky subsoil and the "price" of excessive height. The caisson-drilling rig is still under the northwest corner of the building!" Another thing to consider is soaring prices and the long lead time necessary for structural steel. The economics will probably favor buildings with a reinforced concrete structure on either Public Square or Flats East Bank, no matter the height (see Avenue District and Petronas Towers for examples).

The Left Bank building is owned by Mr. Newman, who is the executive director of the Flats Oxbow Association, a CDC for the Flats area. The building is the most poorly maintained residential building in the area except for CMHA, but the views from the units must be awesome. Mr. Newman has been delinquent paying his taxes for the last few years: http://auditor.cuyahogacounty.us/repi/taxbill.asp?txtParcel=00319007 He's smart: collect rent, don't pay taxes, don't maintain your building, and as the neighborhood sprouts new condos and apartments (and someday a towpath trail), sell the place! Just what we all want from CDC directors.

I'm not sure how this affects Stark's plans, but the Pesht site is now back in consideration for the Medical Mart: Cuyahoga County adds fourth site to consideration for Medical Mart and Convention Center Posted by Steven Litt/Plain Dealer Architecture Critic May 02, 2008 18:28PM Cuyahoga County has added a fourth site to a list of possible locations for a new medical mart and convention center in downtown Cleveland. County Commissioner Peter Lawson Jones said Friday that he and Commissioners Tim Hagan and Jimmy Dimora want to look at the largely vacant land in the Warehouse District from the northwest corner of Public Square west to West Sixth Street, and from Superior Avenue on the south to St. Clair Avenue on the north... http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2008/05/cuyahoga_county_adds_fourth_si.html#more The overhead bridge idea is unnecessary. In case Comish Jones didn't notice, to the east of this site (Public Square to E 9th) Superior is now only 4 lanes wide (2 car, 2bus only) and a traffic study would likely prove that Superior could easily be narrowed in this stretch so that pedestrians can easily cross the street. To the west of this site, the Detroit Superior Bridge had it's number of lanes reduced just a few years ago as well. The only reason that Superior is so wide here is because it used to have a ramp down underneath to let the streetcars enter the subway underneath the bridge, that they later filled in and paved. The excessive width of 7 lanes is NOT because Superior ever needed that much width for traffic capacity reasons. Crossing Superior in this stretch could be made as easy as crossing from the Arcade to E 4th street on Euclid (well, without the construction).

A couple of weeks ago I was riding an RTA bus trolley and I heard the driver telling another passenger that she got pulled over for driving her personal vehicle in the Euclid bus-only lanes. She continued by complaining about the fact that RTA can write tickets for jay walking. She complained that it's ridiculous that RTA can do such things. It really irked me to hear an RTA employee disparaging RTA's Euclid Corridor, and she was just upset because she (a bus driver) got a ticket for driving in a bus-only lane. JMasek - is RTA going to record sound, along with the video when they put surveillance equipment on all of the buses? The idea that Big Brother could be listening might deter drivers from saying inappropriate things, like the time I heard a driver on the Shaker Square circulator say that she'd "never date a guy that rides RTA." Observation #1: I saw Daffy Dan on the Trolley recently. That was the closest thing to a celebrity that I've seen on an RTA bus. Observation #2: RTA now brings about 75% of my department to work downtown every day, up from about 25% last year. Even folks from Lorain and Medina Cos.

I'll be one of the first people to say that parking lots are ugly and cold. But that old abandoned building looked horrible. After they renovate the existing portion it will be providing 1) jobs to Clevelanders, 2) increased taxes to the city/county/state, and 3) revenue to the building's owner. The owner really has only a few choices. He could have ripped the entire thing down and made it all a parking lot, which would definitely make the owner a steady stream of cash. Or he could have just let it remain as an abandoned, decaying building in the midst of the cool new Avenue District neighborhood. But, luckily for Cleveland, he has decided to turn it into a new/rehabilitated facility housing telecom companies. It's not perfect, but maybe it's the only way the owner can make money (other than using it as parking).

Lakewood City Schools did a nice job when they saved the facade of Garfield Elementary (pictured here still under construction last winter). That's the old facade on the left and the all new portion of the building on the right. The school was over 100 years old and Lakewood needed to modernize the buildings for numerous reasons. They could have demolished the whole thing, but the facade was saved and the rest of the building attempts to mimic the style of the original.

Food for thought: Tucker Ellis & West might be starting a parade of tenants leaving the Huntington Building for the Flats with E&Y likely to follow. Huntington Bank also is considering leaving the Huntington Building, so the Huntington Building could be left mostly empty. But with the purchase of the Ameritrust Building by Cuyahoga County, the commissioners showed their interest in being at E9th & Euclid. The commissioners, now considering the sale of Ameritrust to K&D, still have the need for consolidated office space. Does it seem plausible that Cuyahoga County will lease all or part of the Huntington Building? They might be able to get a grand headquarters like they were originally looking for but at a steep discount relative to the cost of redeveloping Ameritrust. Obviously the county still has several options (EOG @ E9th & Superior, Pesht, May Co Bldg, etc. could work too).

The CEO of RTA lives within 1/2 mile of only 1 transit line (the 49). Why is transit such a low priority of the leader of our transit system? If he felt it at all to be important, I'd imagine that he would have at least considered transit accessibility when he purchased his home. Transit availability influenced my decision for both current and previous residencies although I can afford to drive my car every day. Transit ranks higher on my list of priorities than for the guy that runs the agency. I find that to be odd. Also, the CEO of RTA can be observed in an RTA auto to get from their offices on W 6th to the NOACA offices on E 13th. That is the exact route the B-line trolley takes. I will admit to spotting the RTA CEO on the E-line trolley before and seeing him board the #246. He does use transit, but it's obviously not important enough to influence his home purchase or for all his meetings across downtown. So before we all start bashing rockandroller (and other UOers) too much for their transit/residency choices, maybe we should first start asking that our leaders lead by example? KJP sets a fine example. He constantly advocates for transit, and he lives in a location to take advantage of it. I'm sure he enjoys the advantages of RTA and his fine neighborhood. The RTA CEO, however, lives in Westlake in a subdivision with several culdesacs. Culdesacs are as anti-transit as a street can get. I'm sure it's a fine house. That is not the issue. He could have purchased an equally fine house with transit availability as well, but chose not to. If everybody else acted like the RTA CEO, RTA would have no customers.