TMH

As one who lives downtown, I do not think that routing buses through the Warehouse district, downtown's premier residential district, is a good idea.

Does anyone know what the mural on the Stark building will look like? What is the lighting, etc.?

ClevelandOhio, yes, that's the one. What on earth is going on at Forbes? I think the mayor, Frank Jackson, should pursue some type of legal action. Everywhere I travel, people have such a distorted view of what living in Cleveland must be like. They think Cleveland is an empty war zone on the brink of total collapse. When I tell them unemployment is at 8.5% (less than Seattle, Denver, Cincinnati, etc.) and that we are entering 2011 with a balanced budget and no major layoffs or tax increases, they are dumbfounded.

Where did that picture of Duluth come from? This is a city of about 85,000 people and an MSA of about 275,000. What city's skyline is that? I recall a series of photos in another list of which Cleveland was again one of the losers and although the pictures for the other loser cities showed dramatic skylines, our picture was of some boarded up storefronts. I hate this constant media bias.

On Jan 17th I posted a question regarding Forbes stupid list: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0214/real-estate-bankruptcy-taxes-pensions-cities-on-brink.html In that list they say Cleveland is one of the cities most on the brink. Today the mayor, Frank Jackson just proposed the 2011 budget that balanced the budget with no major layoffs or tax increases, http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110201/FREE/110209982 My question changes - what is going on with Forbes vs. Cleveland? There are very few major cities that are entering 2011 with a balanced budget without major layoffs or tax increases! How can Cleveland be considered by Forbes as a city on the brink? What is going on? if I was the mayor, I would begin thinking about a slander lawsuit. :shoot:

I do not understand that Forbes article. My understanding is that we have one of the lowest projected deficits for next year of most major cities (10$ million) as stated in the PD. This Forbes article states we are already behind (9 days)?!? One thing I praise our mayor on is his fiscal responsibility. We have not experienced the major layoffs and cuts of services as experienced in other cities. This article is absolutely false. Am I misinformed or is Forbes out of control?

The original owners of the property have taken back control along with some additional partners. I know these people personally and consider them friends! They are relatively recent immigrants, but they have assimilated in the way we romanticize about immigration. They maintain their traditions and love for their "homeland", but they are strong American citizens that love and support their new country. I wish we could attract millions of people like them to Cleveland. Give them a try - maybe more than once.

Personally, I think there is too much of this "Remember when..." stuff in Cleveland. Remember when: There was no Tower City There was no Playhouse Square There was no lighting of the lights after Thanksgiving There were 350 murders in one year There were no downtown residents There was no Science Center There was no Rock Hall There was no Progressive Field You get the picture. All cities evolve and Cleveland is a great place as it is today.

Cleveland has always been a city of neighborhoods. People would work, then go home to their neighborhood. It is one of the things that makes Cleveland special, but at the same time, it has created a city that does not fit the current "national" city mold. The modern city has all of its amenities downtown and nothing else outside of the downtown area.

Is it possible that the "Old Guard" at the PD (Feagler and that other retired guy that writes continuous editorials bashing Cleveland - Larkin) are finally giving way to some new writers with fresh ideas. It is the Christmas season and I can dream :-).

Imagine a world where we paid to the City the taxes we pay to Washington, and we paid to Washington the taxes we currently pay to the city. We would not need to beg for money from Washington to do great things in our city!

I who moved to Cleveland 12 years ago and I totally love it. But given the constant negative media attention, I think our theme song should be "I'm not like everybody else" by the Kinks. The following link portrays the Sopranos and I am not trying to play on the crime thing. I just think that we have a different attitude given the constant negative reaction to the phrase "I live in Cleveland."

I suspect the owners are looking ahead. When the casino is completed there may be more opportunities for that property. They may be thinking, "Why continue to pay property taxes for a vacant building when we will have to tear it down for a more profitable future tenant anyway?"

My problem with this discussion is the same as most discussions involving downtown Cleveland. It is always led by the suburbanites. We should have more parks with benches, etc. Where are the urban people in these discussions. Do you think anyone in NYC is talking about how moving a museum downtown is a bad move? To move the Children's museum to the powerhouse is a great idea. The current space is terrible and this would be an incredible improvement. For all the people talking about how bad the west bank of the Flats is, when was the last time you were there? Do you even know that it is a thriving entertainment area with bars, restaurants, and thousands of apartments/condos? This thread is starting to read like Cleveland.dumb. I am getting really tired of the constant misconception about downtown Cleveland.

"And Im trying to think in a Moms point of view. Driving down Washington Avenue isn't the best. You have the homeless on that one corner. You also have a strip club nearby." I am so tired of this suburban attitude. Everyone wants the world to look like Disney World. Where are all of the urban people?

We are all excited about your project. I hope you will share your finished product with us. Can you share any of the outline? I am sure that many on this forum would love to help. Good luck.

StrapHanger, I know what you mean. I am not sure what it is about Cleveland that makes people fall in love with the city with such intensity. I usually have the same feeling you expressed when I have to go to Seattle for work. Seattle is nice, but just not for me.

"Columbus is home to more than one million people... As a midsize city..." These statements seem contradictory to me. Perhaps this is part of the image problem. On one hand people in Columbus talk about how large the population is, which puts the city in comparison to other very large cities. Then the discussion changes into "midsize" cities and one is left wondering what is Columbus? :?

In response to the post by jam40jeff. I am a strong supporter of public transportation. Regarding the $400 mil for train service we should pay attention to which rail service is currently successful. On the East Coast, connecting major employment hubs for convenient commuting is the most successful model. Here in Ohio a similar model would be to develop commuter lines connecting Cleveland to Akron and Cincinnati to Dayton. In Northeast Ohio it may also make sense to connect Cleveland - Akron - Canton, as well as Lorain, Sandusky, and Ashtabula. I do not see how connecting the big 3 cities works. I live in Cleveland and 3 or 4 times a year I attend meetings in Columbus. I can drive there early in the morning, attend the meeting no matter where the location is and drive home at the end of the day. Because I am driving, I am flexible as to location and time of the meeting. No train schedule could ever match that flexibility of time and certainly would not accommodate location. All of this with no mention of the price. Cleveland to Columbus and back, one half of a tank of gas, regardless of how many people are attending the meeting with me. It makes no practical sense. Turning down this money makes us one of the smarter states because we will not be burdened with future costs at a time when we can barely pay for essentials.

I am not understanding most of the ideas presented here regarding the redesign of Public Square. PS is the center of a major city. It is supposed to have congestion with cars, buses, and people. Why the constant attempt to redirect all of this traffic. Two weeks ago I was at the Farmer's Market on the Northwest Quadrant of PS and there were people milling around, shopping, sitting on park benches, etc. The food truck was there and it was great. I walk through PS 2 or 3 times a day and it appears to be clean, safe, and very much what a town square is supposed to be. Living downtown, my only complaint about PS is that there is not more congestion to give it that "Big City" feel. The Malls are another issue. In my opinion, they are set in a more conducive setting for concerts and other outdoor activities as proposed with the Medical Mart/Convention Center designs.

We live on the corner of West 6th and St. Clair and it is true, the crowds of underage people only appear after 1:30 am. It is kind of strange, one minute there is the usual crowd and then all of a sudden it changes. I have stated in other posts that without reading about this in the PD we probably would not know about it because we are seldom out after 1:30. I think if the PD did not make a big deal about this it would not be a problem. Certainly when the weather changes this will all go away.

We live on St. Clair between West 4th and West 6th. Yes we hear noise. We have always heard noise late night on weekends. We live in an entertainment area and it is to be expected. We can always tell when the bars close. There is something about drinking that makes people think they can sing! However, I am not sure the noise is any more than when the PD was saying downtown is dead. Now, for the people who live on West 6th, I would guess they hear more noise. Every summer the Warehouse District attracts a large crowd and when the weather is nice people like to linger after closing time. This year is a unique situation because the people who are lingering appear to be underage high school kids and if they are getting intoxicated, we need to stop it. Of course, most of this problem will end as the weather changes. There is something positive about miserable weather.

The problems in the Warehouse District as discussed in http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,23450.0.html really do not impact us. It is primarily confined to West 6th from St. Clair to Lakeside and it tends to occur after 1:00am Friday and Saturday nights. To be honest we are rarely in that section of the Warehouse District during those times. We love Panninis, but usually go there in the early evening to watch an Indians game, but when the game is over, we leave (10:00pm). Our favorite restaurants are Osteria, Mallorca, and Metro. These are very nice and the clientele is upscale and sophisticated (unlike us :cry:). Not to minimize the issue, but if I didn't read about it in the paper, I might not know there is a problem. We simply do not go "clubbing" after 1:00am. :drunk: One more thought, many people compare the situation in the Warehouse District with the Flats, but people forget that this is a residential neighborhood with about 4,000 people living there. If every bar/restaurant in the area shut down, it would still be a great place to live downtown. I think it is interesting that for years the PD talked about how dangerous downtown was primarily because it was so dead. Now downtown is dangerous because it is too popular!

I am 59. My wife and I became empty nesters 6 years ago. We moved downtown to the Warehouse District. We strongly recommend the area.

My wife and I live downtown in the warehouse district (St. Clair and West 6th). If you need help or have a question about living downtown, please do not hesitate to ask. We love it here and we welcome you! After a couple of weeks when the euphoria has evaporated, please let us know about concerns and complaints. Maybe we can help. Again welcome.