jessehallum

^Doubling the density of the banks? That is an interesting idea but if QCSII is going up and we are serious about OTR gentrification, is there enough demand to justify this?

Planning commission to mull riverfront plan changes Business Courier of Cincinnati - 4:46 PM EDT Monday, August 13, 2007 by Dan Monk Senior staff reporter The Cincinnati Planning Commission is being urged to approve massive changes to its central riverfront master plan to accommodate an Atlanta developer's latest plans for the Banks riverfront development project. "The modifications have been requested to improve the viability of the project, thereby ensuring successes for the overall development," wrote Margaret Wuerstle, Cincinnati's chief planner, in a 19-page report urging the Cincinnati Planning Commission to modify its riverfront zoning. Full story text is available at http://"http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2772.1680

The City Link thread hasn't been updated since Dec 28th, which is why I thought that the project is dead. I understand that it is not the idea solution, but I see it as progress. At least some of the social services are being pushed further from the city core. The whole Drop Inn Center/Washington Park social service structure has had a lot of power in the city. It seems to me that this may be a way to weaken the Drop Inn Center. Perhaps the 'leadership' of the social service agencies will be more reasonable in the hands of this City Link. It might sound harsh, but I think that the potential for the Washington Park Area is much greater than that of the brewery district. Music Hall / Washington Park is a major attraction that is WAY underutilized because of the concentration of social service agencies. I'm in favor of doing whatever is necessary to make the neighborhood valuable to the community once again.

I know it is a little off topic, but what is going on with City Link? I haven't heard anything about this in over year. I assumed that it was dead in the water. I think it will really help the situation in and around Washington Park..

Did I miss something? I thought that the Drop Inn Center was hellbent on staying in the neighborhood. I know that a few half way houses are closing to make way for the SCPA, but that is less than 5% of the total social services in the area. The only real 'plan' to move a large number of social services out Washington park (CityLink) is dead. Here is the last quote that I have heard of the Drop Inn Center: ""You can have a world-class arts school and a homeless shelter and co-exist.... It co-exists that way in other cities. We want to view it as a collaboration in and of itself." - Pat Clifford, Drop Inn Center's managing director. LINK Obviously, a Drop Inn Center move would be huge for the neighborhood. Real Citizens could once again use Washington Park. I vote for Eitght and State, baby!

New Fifth and Race delay BY JON NEWBERRY | [email protected] The city of Cincinnati has given the development arm of Western & Southern Financial Group Inc. another 45 days in its bid to build a proposed high-rise condominium project at Fifth and Race streets downtown. Eagle Realty Group LLC’s control of the key downtown corner – at an intersection shared with the Hilton Netherland Plaza, Macy’s and Saks Fifth Avenue, a block from Fountain Square – was to have expired today unless it could get the city’s agreement on a suitable development plan. The deadline has now been pushed back to Sept. 23, said City Hall spokeswoman Meg Olberding. “That’ll give us time to see if we can come to an agreement,” she said. The city and Eagle have been trying to “hammer out” various issues related to a proposal by Eagle to build a two high-rise condo towers atop above-ground parking garages with street-level retail space along Fifth, Race and Sixth streets, Olberding said. Read full article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/BIZ01/308090037/1076

Damn! This is the first time I've ever been happy after accidentally clicking on an internet ad! My desktop has a new background. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anderson theater/condo project to begin after years of planning Township also plans for condos, garage BY STEVE KEMME | [email protected] ANDERSON TWP. - The long-anticipated groundbreaking for the $35 million Anderson Towne Place project, which includes a 12-screen cinema, condominiums and a parking garage, will take place Friday. Township officials have worked for years to attract a cinema. The project sits between Anderson Towne Center and Anderson Center, where the township is building an administration building with a performing arts auditorium.

Coalition pushes petition drive 34,000 signatures meant to put sales-tax increase on ballot BY HOWARD WILKINSON AND JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]; [email protected] With a week to go, leaders of a petition drive to place a planned Hamilton County sales tax increase for a new jail on the November ballot say they have collected 34,014 signatures - but it is not yet clear how many of those signatures will count. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070707/NEWS01/707070402/1077/COL02&GID=4+Ovogko4kRZ2QMoFXxwNqGoLENtWe/VjcVBhR8f2lE%3D

^Something, Anything. The three Skyway bridges that lead to the parking lot look absolutely ridiculous. With such a good location, one would think that something would be desirable at the site. This space is one of the first things that suburbanite haters point to when they mock Cincinnati.. and it is one of the few things that they are right about. It can be anything. They could build a Shoney's with big neon lights and extend the skyways to meet above it. It could be called "The crossing at Shoney's Corner" or "The Denny's at skyway crossing". I don't care. I exaggerate of course, but come on, this space has been empty for far too long. At this point, any development would beat the parking lot. Also, I see very little point in arguing about what is going to fill a space that doesn't exist. Why doesn't Eagle build something and worry about the marketing after the start of construction? Why is it important to have a tenant planned for the space NOW? It seems like Eagle throws out some new idea for the space a couple times each year to quell the public outrage. Diversionary tactics, really. We argue about whether or not we want the Playhouse to relocate here while the site sits dormant. :whip:

^ I think that the minor league baseball draft is very underrated. "Small market" teams, a la the Reds, have no choice but to draft well. The elite tier in the draft (represented by Scot Bora) demand more money than many owners can afford. Although this favors the higher revenue teams, this ultra eliete tier of prospects are not necessarily the best major league players. Some guys get hyped more than others, but it does not mean that they can play. Many teams do not want to pour guarenteed money into a guy who is largely unproven. Teams like the Twins follow a good model. The Twins decided to draft Joe Mauer ahead of Mark Prior in 2001. At the time, Prior was billed as one of the best pitchers in College baseball history. Scouts described his mechanics as 'flawless' and labeled him 'can't miss'. But Mauer was willing to take less money than Prior. A lot less. Mauer is an all star and Prior's career seems to be over.. And the Twins have been to playoffs in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2006 with a limited payroll. The point is that it is not impossible to win as a smaller market team. Other teams like the Indians, Brewers, and A's have also been successful at building their minor league systems and they are starting to reap the rewards. I think that the Reds have done a good job in drafting recently. Dan O'Brien's impact on the farm system is starting to be seen in 2007 with Homer Bailey. The Red's will follow that up with Joey Votto in 2008 and Jay Bruce in 2009, plus a number of arms and three shortstop prospects. With Adam Dunn off the payroll, the team should have enough money to go after A NEW BULLPEN in the offseason. Otherwise, the team is not bad talent-wise... and it will only get better. I remain optomistic for the Reds in the long term. I don't think that 2007 was Narron's fault, but I am still glad to see him go. He used too many batting orders and underutilized the bullpen. Next year, the Reds need a fresh face as the manager. Someone Outside of the organization. Let's stop rolling out these home grown minor-league clowns. It reminds me of the Bengals in the '90s.

Who cares what occupies the space? Just build it. I'm sick of the delays. The site needs to be occupied with SOMETHING. The vacant lot is a joke. Build something NOW!

Dayton, turn on the red light! To promote tourism, Dayton is officially renamed "New Gohmorrah" :evil:

Anti-sales tax petition needs lot of names BY HOWARD WILKINSON | [email protected] The Cincinnati Enquirer - Thursday, June 28, 2007 HYDE PARK - The petition drive to give Hamilton County residents a vote on a sales tax increase has collected just over 20,000 signatures in the past three weeks, but leaders of the effort say they will need at least twice that many in the next two weeks to be successful. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070628/NEWS01/706280342/1056/COL02

Census: City's gain suburbs' loss BY GREGORY KORTE | [email protected] The Cincinnati Enquirer - Thursday, June 28, 2007 Cincinnati, once thought to be one of the fastest-shrinking cities in the country, is now gaining population at the rate of two or three people a day. That's according to new annual estimates by the U.S. Census Bureau, the most positive official estimates of the city's growth in decades. But Cincinnati's gain is a loss for its suburbs. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070628/NEWS01/706280319

hmm.. It appears that this is a very unpopular development model for the banks. Personally, I think that the commercial areas pictured will work well for the banks. The open-air areas would be large enough to host Cincinnati's many festivals. Adjacent to the stadia, one would think that the commercial spaces would be successful even if they exclusively housed bars. What existing developments would everyone like the banks to look like? or The banks is being developed by the same developer as Atlantic Station. What should be added/removed from the Atlantic Station development to where it would be acceptable?

Back to the topic of the thread... My biggest concern for Cincinnati is that Northern Kentucky developments will outpace Cincinnati's developments. They always get the cool stuff. If the city doesn't act fast, Newport will surely build the banks before we can. Next thing you know, Covington will build a rehabbed Over-The-Rhine complete with streetcars. :drunk: :laugh:

Well, this conversation has turned civil and reasonable! I love this board! :-D I may have been a bit strong in my previous posts. I know that this is a sensitive issue. White Flight is unfortunate. I too have heard people talk about 'the blacks' moving in. Ignorant and fearful people make me angry. They perpetuate the suburban sprawl. Thank God that racist attitudes are dying a little bit with each passing year. That being said, white flight transcends racism at some level. For instance, homeowners in Price Hill that did not sell their houses 5-8 years ago, in many cases, have seen market value decline (sometimes drastically). I attribute this more to the flood of section 8 housing than of 'the blacks' that use the system. Unfortunately, the issue becomes a matter of common sense and economics when even reasonable people get caught in the 'slippery slope'. I remain optimistic about Westwood. Many areas of the neighborhood are well-maintained. Many houses remain stunningly beautiful. Citizen Participation, which seldom has been a problem with west-side neighborhood, remains high. Vouchers have been capped in the neighborhood and the current mix should be sustainable.

I don't know what is racist or elitist about any of this. I don't understand your logic on the issue. People are describing a migration trend and expressing concern over a neighborhood. If there is a piece of the puzzle that he /we are missing, please state it instead of dancing around the topic. It seems that YOU are assuming that section 8 = black. If that is in fact the truth, then the racist aspect of this is not the description of the migration. It is the neighborhoods like Mt. Adams, Hyde Park, etc. who had the money and political clout to say "not in my neighborhood".

Not sure what you mean by the bolded statement above; with a voucher, a Section 8 person can use it anywhere theywant, it is not based on the neighborhood, but if the landlord is willing to accept it, and if the tenant can cover the additional rent that the voucher does not cover. Cincinnati's immediate western suburbs contained a moderate amount of section 8 housing prior to 1998. As the west end was redeveloped and English woods was cleared, the number of section eight units climbed exponentially and disproportionately on the west side of the city. By the late 1990's, it seemed that section 8 housing was taking over blocks. People started moving out of their neighborhood. Many of these houses sold to landlords who chose to rent out to section 8 tenants. This, in turn, made people more inclined to sell their home. This was the proverbial "slippery slope". City government recognized that there was a problem and in 2004 and passed legislation to cap vouchers in the western neighborhoods. In a small amount of time, neighborhoods changed dramatically. It was intimated in a prior post that some arguments in this thread are racially charged. I sincerely hope that my comments were not perceived that way. I was stating that the city has dealt with a similar problem in the past. I occurred the last time that a slum was cleared. And yes, I would qualify that part of the west end and English woods as slums by today's standards. I only ask why the city would allow such a large migration of low cost housing to one or a few neighborhoods. The city has the power to cap vouchers! You would have thought that they would have learned from the past. The most racist part of the whole issue in my mind is the migration one predominately low-income black population to a new zip code. It seems that what was a black west end now becomes a black price hill. I believe that the best policy would be one of integration, one of assimilation of lower income housing in a variety of neighborhoods, independent of race. Isn't integration a national policy or at least an ideal? I am a west-sider. I would like to have seen city council act before they did. When people were being displaced, they could have put caps on vouchers for each city neighborhood. This would have ensured that each city neighborhood could retain its identity. This would also work to mitigate the damages in terms of crime and property devaluation.

Thank you for posting this!!!!! These pictures are excellent, providing a street level view of what the banks may look like. If the banks project is modeled after this development, I would not be upset in the least. It may feel a bit a cheesy and touristy, but that is somewhat the nature of the beast. I agree that location of the banks is far superior to that of Atlantic Station. The banks site is bordered by: Downtown to the North, Great American Ballpark to the east, and Paul Brown Stadium to the west. This site will have more built in foot traffic than Atlantic station. The banks is going to be a cash cow!

Wow, what a charged statement. The westside as a whole is not heading in a "downward trajectory". Some neighborhoods - yes, but the whole westside - NO. Be careful with blanket comments such as that; I'm sure people living the better areas would take offense. Westwood is also not doing all that bad, right now it is primarily Price Hill that is struggling. I would also like to say that the city did not blow up the West End, this was a combined process that was driven primarily from the feds for I-75. Not to mention, I don't think you can ever really "blow up" a neighborhood (as you so elequantly put it) for any good reason. Poor people deserve a neighborhood and a decent place to live just like wealthy individuals deserve that opportunity. I think that what he says is true. Look at where the section 8 housing went after the west end/otr was blowed up: It was all in Price Hill, Westwood, Fairmount, etc. The city did not disperse these vouchers evenly around neighborhoods. For instance, there was no representation of voucher housing in Mt. Adams. In Price Hill, it was a capitalist free for all. The slum lords bought properties on the west side and applied for section 8 housing. Some streets became 75% section 8 in a very small window (less than four months). This caused crime to rise and a general devaluation of real estate in the area. In the mid 1900s, a similar thing happened. To build I-75, the city plowed a large tract of the west end (slum clearance plan). This resulted in Cincinnati's 'second ghetto', which emerged by the Cincinnati Zoo. Cincinnati did not learn from this mistake. They are currently working on a 'third ghetto' in Price Hill. The recent crime wave on the west side proves the point.

Is anyone optimistic that Mike Brown will in any way part with (in scary gollum voice) his precious money? I am waiting for this quote to surface: "I would say he's going to be Mike Brown and he's going to look like Mike Brown and feel like Mike Brown, but maybe have a little bit more of a human feel to him." :-D

You can't preserve trees that never existed. The original photographs from 2004 show no trees on the site. The land looks like farmland in the picture. The site may have been cleared prior to 2004, but that was years before this construction began. As far as a nature feel, they built the islands in the road, which will facilitate some form of green space (yay). Also, I would expect some trees to be planted to block the breathtaking view of the back of the strip mall. I think that the whole development looks misplaced and/or forced. Is this what "city living" has been reduced to? With small yards and a uniform style, this looks more like low-income housing projects than upscale townhouses.

I think that it can expose a failed model. The Drop Inn Center has never made recovery a requirement. When alcoholics are permitted to openly drink and abuse drugs directly in front of the center, there is flaw in the model that you are using. I believe that the leadership of the center are good-hearted, but the model is clearly not working. As far as moving is concerned, there has to be a study or two on how to best handle this type of situation. The goal is to find a way to best help the homeless. My logic would lead me to believe that a geographically distributed system would be a better solution. For example, a number of smaller shelters in more diverse locations along the bus line. I would think that this would minimize the inherent risks (crime, property value devaluation) as well as provide a more viable exit strategy for those 'graduating' from the program.