jessehallum

The Drop Inn Center would be able to provide the same services in many Cincinnati Neighborhoods. The reason it refuses to move is simple: If the Drop Inn Center moves, it looses visibility. Buddy Gray opened the center between City Hall and Music Hall so it would be visible. The Drop Inn Center is not just a homeless shelter. It has been the focal point of a political movement. By being positioned at this strategic location, the Center can easily get to the negotiating table. In the past, Gray's group would get to the negotiating table, take a hard lined approach, and end up getting paid off by council. Only recently has the political movement begun to loose clout. Under Gray's leadership, the group was able to block 'gentrification' in the late 70's/early 80's. This strategic position continues to provide a public forum to push their agenda. If the Drop Inn Center moves, it will loose visibility, funding, and political sway. I believe that publicity should be used against them. They do not focus on the recovery of homeless alcoholic. They focus on housing them. Those who live in the center (err Washington Park before dark) are not the poor who need public transit. They are transients who are looking for a place to get drunk and stay for free. For us as a society to offer them Washington Park is a bit extreme in my view. I am not against rehabilitation for people who need/want it in the neighborhood. I am against offering up a what would be the city's best park to them. The media exposed RESTOC years ago and they need to now focus on the Drop INN Center.

..not to mention the hit that property value takes when HUNDREDS of these people are concentrated in one small area. Not only are current owners affected by the devaluation of property value (from the late 70s onward), but the city as a whole is affected. Lower property value = lower tax amount collected by the city.

Just curious... What other cities have a world-class arts school and a homeless shelter that co-exist? Furthermore,what do the neighborhoods look like? What cities and/or situations would the Drop Inn center like to use as a model?

^ I didn't mean to give that impression of weakness. I think that they are doing everything right!

One reason that the commercial space has been leased so fast is because he owners are making concessions on these spaces. I spoke with three store owners; they all confirmed that they had received 'considerable' concessions in rent for the first 6-12 months of the lease. I didn't ask for specifics, but that was the consensus. To me, this is a good sign. 3CDC seems to be doing everything right. Occupied retail space will draw more (middle to high income) residents. More residents will sustain the retail. I am hoping that the rumors of a Dewey's Pizza and a Christian Morlein beer hall come to fruition. I have been spending a lot of time lately bumming around the Q. I am impressed with what has been done. The neighborhood is not as crime infested as it used to be. The renovations are beautifully done. There are only a few things that I can see as holding the neighborhood back: 1. Location of the Drop in Center, Recovery Hotel, and Buddy's Place. (aka Buddy Gray's Legacy) 2. Public Perception The neighborhood has not yet 'turned the corner' but it appears to be rapidly approaching the corner (if you will). The addition of the Streetcar system and a few more highly publicized business openings would put the project over the top!

Is this a joke? I don't think that the county will ever build a light rail system that runs along I-74. They can't even build a jail. There is no demand for this light rail system. Seriously, traffic is a problem and there is no easy solution. Given the terrain, Rybolt would be almost impossible to widen all the way from Taylor to Harrison. It will be interesting to see how the new turn lanes will work out.

^It was pretty weak reporting that was used in regards to Mozel. A "what if" scenario by an unnamed aide to Monzel? WEAK! This project sound awesome. As Tarbell said, this is about: "unlocking the potential of our urban neighborhoods." I am very much in favor of this idea. It makes more sense for the city than the doomed light rail proposal a few years ago. I will write the council members tonight in support of streetcars. What is the timetable on this? The terminology of 'within a month' indicates that no concrete proposal has been made at this time. I am wondering how this will be built in 2010. I figure that there is still a lot of work to be done: Planning, Council Vote, Financing, Even picking contractors has proved difficult for the city in the past. I hope this goes through ASAP. Long overdue in my estimation.

Thank you County Commissioners! It was a necessary step for our city as well as the region as a whole. The only thing that I am disappointed in is how big of a butt-hole Pat Dewine was in this whole process. He was clearly was swept up in politics here. This guy has been pro-jail at every turn up until this point. Now, when solidarity is needed, he thinks only of political gain/opposing those evil democrats.

Hilarious :laugh:

Well put! :clap: Why shouldn't there be some sort of viable attraction in the area for those 'off' days? I understand the argument, but I would say that the banks is different situation. You have a base of Millions (thats right) who will be in the area already to attend sporting events. Why not leverage this? I know that they are attempting to with Freedom Way, but I fear that a unique opportunity may be lost. It is closer to the central business district than most of the comparables that you have cited. Based on location, Second St. is the closest match.. I recall that the district did very well until it was FORCED to close. Ahh... The argument appears to be going nowhere. Our trip through circular arguing reaches 360 degrees, as I restate my point: The development should be thought more of as creating a hub than creating a neighborhood. On this issue, I suppose we agree to disagree. :-D

Sustainable community? The residents of the condos in the Banks cannot support the large amount of retail space on by themselves. Residents of other neighborhoods will be needed whether they are in Cincinnati (CBD, Newport, OTR), the Suburbs, or abroad (tourism). It is also been proven that it can fail. Do you deny sprawl or what has happened to these "sustainable" communities in the inner cities across this nation? I would prefer that people think about the issue more practically without inserting these "new urban ideals". Bingo. I think that we may be arguing semantics here. The project should be designed to be the hub of the area, not simply another neighborhood. I guess that I don't understand the term 'self sustainable community'. I am using the following definition: a community that can sustain itself. I don't think that the proposed neighborhood can do this and frankly, Why should it? It should be a hub, an attraction, a destination!

I think you are again missing my point. There is no way that shops could survive as a 'self sustainable community'. Look at the ratio of retail to condo units. It is not sustainable without a certain level of tourism. why not focus on that, rather than this new 'neighborhood.' ? Cincinnati has a huge metro population to draw from. Take advantage of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^There is nothing wrong with it if you live in a bubble. I just do not think that it is realistic. The truth is the population of the condo units WILL NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES be enough to keep businesses open in the area without a great deal of help. The natural progression is for the area to become a tourist attraction. It is unlikely for it to become it's own neighborhood like Wrigleyville in Chicago. I hear this comparison constantly. It is UNREALISTIC!!!!!

^Ah... I am now hated under two usernames. :evil:

I was not proposing the construction of a theme park. I did not intend for my post to be perceived that way. I guess that my point is this: Just because condos are the flavor of the week, it does not mean that they have to be the focus of what is to be a tri-state landmark. I know that the conventional thinking on this board is anti-sprawl, but people still drive to attractions. Take the taste of Cincinnati. If you could create a party-like atmosphere where people could drink on the streets, it would sell. It doesn't have to be a utopian, hippie community. It just has to be something uniquely Cincinnati. Even people in the suburbs have Cincinnati pride.

I am starting to wonder whether the banks project as is will ever be a success. With high end (and even market rate) condos coming to market in many areas of the city, I worry that the market may not be able to bear this undertaking. New condo developments are happening all over the city, including in many areas that will directly compete with the project. Covington and Newport can offer riverfront living. OTR and Downtown can offer city living, while Mr. Adams and other developments on Cincinnati's hills offer city views. The market seems to be saturated. I am not so sure that the proposal for the condo/retail area makes a whole lot of sense. The dominating principal in real estate development is the concept of highest and best use. This principal states that any development should maximize value to a community. In my mind, the highest and best use at this site is an entertainment and tourist district. This district would act as the premier nightlife/tourist attraction in the region. There is plenty of room for creativity with this concept: Design a "riverboat row" with steam boats and touristy shoppes. Build a roller coaster along the river. Put a damn space needle (metaphorically speaking) there. Just make this area a draw for tourists and residents alike. The constant delays to the project show me that developers have serious reservations about this project. This could indicate that developers run the numbers on this project and decide that it does not make sense to proceed. So why would be try to force a neighborhood between the two stadiums if there is a lack of demand? Neighborhoods do different things well. For instance, Over-the-Rhine is best used as a residential/mixed use neighborhood. Why don't we continue with the thrust in this area? Here is a radical idea: Let people move to Newport/Covington.. It is too late to stop them, but let us implement a strategy in which they will want to spend their money IN CINCINNATI. This approach would be greatly enhanced by streetcars/light rail in the area. The streetcars would allow new residents of these border neighborhoods (Newport, Covington, OTR, Mt. Adams [bring back the incline!!], etc) to have easy access to the entertainment district... I am not opposed to some condos and office space in the area. I am opposed to what they are doing now, which is to 'force' some development that does not make sense. The condos under this revised model would be far less numerous and would start at 600,000+. Any thoughts?

I vote for the building being beautiful :clap:

^ Portune and Pepper are very popular in this community. I would be shocked if that would kill their political careers.

^ Memo to County Commissioners: A new jail is an obvious need. Enact the sales tax hike. If you don't, we are going to be voting on this every year until it is passed. Lets eliminate the pain and suffering by enacting the tax.