MidwestChamp

^Given this price KJP states above I don't know why this isn't a higher and more visible priority. That seems like a small price for a facility that would accomplish all of those transportation goals WHILE also bridging downtown with the lakefront.

This is true. In my mind I was thinking more a boutique gambling hotel (if such a thing exists)...basically Vegas style tricked out suites not available at the Ritz or Renaissance. If that were the plan then a few upper floors of the Higbee could be great.

The "soft opening" was Monday night. The buzz around the Village (pretty much all the local PTBs went) is that the place is absolutely incredible. I've heard this place will set a new standard for gaming in this market. It will be interesting to see how Rock Gaming responds to the first gaming threat in the Cleveland market, and the Hard Rock name is very recognizable. Too bad the complications of the phase 2 site means that to accomplish what Hard Rock has done will take twice as much money for new construction. I just don't see it happening now, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Compared with the $600M cost that was stated years ago for the new construction phase 2 (I'm sure that estimate has gone up), I can see dropping another $300M into Higbee to spread out the gaming in a more spacious arrangement, maybe an upscale hotel on the upper floors and if mechanicals allow a rooftop lounge. How cool to party while looking up at the terminal tower bathed in color changing light. Rock could also buy the mall and make it special again. I know the original thinking was not to compete with existing amenities downtown, but these additions would compliment the area and make the downtown casino unique enough to stand out.

I definitely understand the argument that in large cities valet is the option for hotels and people will walk for self park or take taxis, but Cleveland is a mid-sized city and our chief competition for conventions and visitors will not be NYC and SF, but more Pittsburgh and St. Louis, Cincinnati etc. When convention planners compare Cleveland to those cities I am sure parking will be an issue. I may be willing to walk but I realize not every conventioneer is. Plus right now the walk to our Convention Center and hotel is not a fun one. There not in the middle of east 4, or the waterfront or warehouse district...there a few blocks away from all these pedestrian friendly zones, with a jail separating them from the warehouse district. I'm not being down but I'm trying to be realistic and say our assets have to appeal to a broad range of people. I can see conventioneers complaining about parking, and more importantly convention planners questioning parking, especially compared with peer cities. Especially if the CC attracts a lot of regional conferences people will drive to from cities within a few hundred miles. I would definitely sacrifice a few levels of height for a parking solution that helps the CC and hotel be more competitive.

Good call JetDog...I always search those seats out if they're available. Since we're about the same height I suspect my discomfort may be the "few" extra pounds I have over you :lol:

^I don't know where this train is with the bike rack but it looks WAAAAY more comfortable, in terms of seat size. Overall I think the red line refresh looks great, but I wish places from transit to theaters would consider the comfort of their patrons over squeezing as many people in as possible. I am only 6 ft tall and I am HORRIBLY uncomfortable on RTA trains...my knees rubbing that hard plastic the whole time, and if someone sits next to me forget it...more comfortable to just stand even if seats are available. Wish there was more leg room but looks like same leg room and smaller seats. No love for the moderately tall.

Table games will continue to set the Horseshoe apart from other local competition, so I expect them to play that up and improve amenities for table gamers. Slot players may prefer the Rockcino which looks very spacious in pics vs the tight quarters downtown. Hopefully the Horseshoe folks figure out the situation with the poker room so they can host a WSOP event here. We've now been shafted 2 years in a row.

With the Waterfront Line stations approaching 20 years in age and the Amtrak station well past its prime (was there ever a prime for that place), is it really that unreasonable for these entities to come together to support a multi-modal facility? I imagine both will be making facility improvements into their lakefront assets anyway, how about directing those efforts towards the multi-modal transit center. Seems to me the cost savings and gained efficiency alone would make a great TIGER grant, not to mention the improved pedestrian and bike connections to the lakefront. Seems like there was energy in 2009 for this with the design competition someone referenced above, then silence ever since. Why is this not at least a conversation? Heck pull in the tram people to if necessary.

Well of course YOU think it's awesome! ;) But of course!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Very awesome. This will be big for AsiaTown and bringing the vibrancy found within the different plazas and markets out onto the streets and public spaces.

That is one kick a$$ view. I'm sure these will be the priciest apts in the city with views of the city, stadium and lake like this. Amazing.

I thought Pittsburgh considered the Westin to be it's Convention Center hotel? I'm not sure if it's attached, but it's directly across the street. Attaching it wouldn't take much. And it has to be 500+ rooms? The Pittsburgh Westin is their convention center hotel, has more than 500 rooms and is attached to the convention center by skywalk. Pittsburgh has been trying to get a developer to expand that hotel with a second tower, although I'm not sure where given how built out that area is.

SMH. Ridiculous. In 20 years every suburb is gonna have a Legacy/Crocker development that's half empty. Planning for transportation and development like this really needs to happen on a regional level. Otherwise there's no way to stop the madness.

More good press in the Atlantic Cities. Cleveland named one of the cities where Millennials can thrive. Where Millennials Can Make It Now http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/11/where-millennials-can-make-it-now/7454/

^With that said the Horseshoe has really enlivened this section of downtown, Public Square, and now serves as the missing link of activity that can connect East 4th Street to the Warehouse district...especially if one travels down Prospect to West 6th. Saddened that Rock is in this position where phase 2 as envisioned may not happen but all in all this has still been a HUGE benefit to Cleveland.

From the article: "Rock Ohio Caesars also owns ThistleDown Racino in North Randall. The company has indicated that it may exercise an option to move the track to the Akron-Canton area after Hard Rock opens." Moving ThistleDown further out to the edge of the Horseshoe's market may offer some hope for a phase two, but otherwise this does not look well: lowered credit rating coupled with a weaker than expected Ohio market that also has more competition than expected with the introduction of the racinos. I've been saying it but I really think they're going to re-evaluate phase 2 based on market realities that now exists.

I like all the elements but am iffy on the chandelier, but I LOVE the lighting proposed for the Keith Building. Don't think I've seen it before but that alone will be a vast improvement. Will definitely brighten up the area and that end of the skyline since that's the tallest building in Playhouse Square.

There will have to be a phase II (or something else) built on the site- Gilbert paid $85 mil for the land... and I don't think anyone would pay that amount of money and let the land sit there undeveloped. Regard the walkway... it sucks but I think the amount of foot traffic taken off the street will be minimal. I don't believe Gilbert "lied" about phase 2, but also remember he wanted to keep phase 1 open as well, essentially building 2 casinos connected by Tower City. So I believe there was a real intent to build phase 2, but I also believe the market changed when racinos were approved by the state legislature. Different ballgame now. There still may be a move towards phase 2, but I bet they are waiting to learn more about the Cleveland and Ohio gambling market, and for the racino's full impact to be realized, before plunking down the $600M needed to construct phase 2. That's just good business. If there's anyone to blame it's not Gilbert but the state legislature and governor for allowing racinos without a vote. That changed the gaming market and I think the demand for phase 2.

I'm not happy about the skywalk and how it blocks the view down Ontario to the courthouse, but I also recognize that many casino patrons are elderly folks who frequent casinos as their form of entertainment. From that perspective I can see where an elderly person would rather go to a casino with an attached covered garage than have to shuffle across the street, especially in bad weather that can present a slip an fall risk for them. The downtown casino has to have this to remain competitive for the lucrative elderly patrons, especially with the state allowing for racinos, which made the market WAY more competitive than the 4 casino's voters approved. Those elderly folks may just want to go to the Hardrock Racino when it opens and not deal with downtown...the Horseshoe can't just concede these gamblers and I don't want them to. I want the Horseshoe Cleveland to be the best casino in the state in terms of revenue and experience. When voters approved the 4 casino locations the nearest gaming spot to the Horseshoe was over 100+ miles away, but now it will be about 15 when the Hardrock opens (excluding Thisledown since Rock owns it). Who knows, maybe this reality has also slowed the momentum for phase 2, which was proposed when it looked like the downtown casinos would be the only game in town. That's not the case now and the Ohio market is not meeting the already high revenue projections Rock and Penn made initially, numbers that will be even more challenged as the other racinos come on line statewide. So basically while I'm not happy I understand the skywalk, and I'm honestly expecting a change in direction on phase 2, based on recent movements in Higbee and lack of info on the TC land. I think it's just where we are right now in the Ohio gaming market. Just my thoughts though...

OMG I love the pork belly skewers at Accent! They were the best item on the Happy Hour menu, which was awesome. Is it already closed or can I go one last time to get my pork belly fix?

I dunno about this. New development that would mimic the traditional business districts would to me have a Crocker Park / Legacy Village feel, not be authentic and would run the danger of hurting the very retail strips you mentioned. It's a shame the Severance estate is gone and I know there's no hope for that to return, so since it's been a mall for half a century and I think at this point it's ok if the big boxes remain. The new Walmart not withstanding, my hope is the presence of Severance gives big boxes a somewhat hidden place to reside, allowing for the authentic retail strips to thrive elsewhere.

Yes! And I think the convention hotel is supposed to open by 2015, or certainly in time for the city to make a possible run for the political conventions in 2016. After a lifetime of projects taking years/decades to complete, I cannot keep up with the pace of development in Cleveland these days. You can get whiplash downtown looking at developments!

Wow I cannot believe the new county admin building is expected to OPEN next summer! Seems very aggressive given where they are in construction. I mean they're moving fast but dang! :-o More Cuyahoga County offices moving this week Print Andrew J. Tobias, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Andrew J. Tobias, Northeast Ohio Media Group Email the author | Follow on Twitter on October 15, 2013 at 9:55 AM, updated October 15, 2013 at 10:34 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County on Tuesday launched the latest phase of its move out of a downtown administrative building to make way for a convention center hotel. Mostly back-end components of the county fiscal office were to begin operating from Reserve Square, 1701 East 12th St., according to a news release from County Executive Ed FitzGerald's office. In the new location are the following offices: fiscal officer, budget and management, financial reporting, homestead, conveyance and transfer, records management, tax map group, procurement and diversity, and the county's call center. Next Monday, services more commonly accessed by the public -- boards of revision, investments, taxation and the county treasurer's office -- will relocate to 1910 Carnegie Ave.. The moves are only temporary. Next summer, county offices will move a second time from their temporary locations to a new eight-story, $75.5 million county administration building at the former Ameritrust complex at corner of East 9th Street and Prospect Avenue. :-o :-o http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2013/10/more_cuyahoga_county_offices_moving_this_week_and_next.html#incart_river_default

Thanks. That's very insightful.

Question for KJP or others - Any talk I've seen of rail expansion for RTA has focused on extension of existing lines vs building new lines. Could this be the reason for RTA to have one standard cost per mile quote? Is it more expensive to extend our existing rail infrastructure, which is old compared to newer systems? I am just not knowledgeable about this and wonder if this contributes to high costs here. My assumption is that the systems KJP stated "there is a very low-cost form of rail called the self-propelled rail car or Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU)..." are newer and maybe not compatible with our heavy or light rail systems? Even if that's true I recognize it doesn't mean RTA couldn't build new lines to new areas with these technologies. I'm really just searching for clarification. Thanks.