atlas

Thanks for these. Got some great angles. Regarding your observation about a lack of a 'group plan' of civic buildings....I'd say that's a good thing. Anytime you group the same uses in one zone, whether it be housing or offices only, you end up killing vitality. Single use land zoning at its worst. We need to get away from thinking museum districts or stadium districts or civic districts are a good idea. Mixed use is the best way to go and it's why places like OTR are taking off while portions of the CBD are still office ghettos.

The looped roads already exist. They're entry/exit ramps to I-676.

More renderings here: http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2012/10/25/renderings-of-blatsteins-proposed-casino-complex.php#5089450e85216d689c000d7a The Inquirer building is already there, so really this is just 1 whole block of new construction and the re-use of the old Inquirer building. And that park - it is a highway ramp right now and will stay that way.

Currently, Philly is the biggest city in the US that has legalized gambling. And the City received another license. This developer wants to do this: http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2012/10/24/bart-blatstein-unveils-new-casino-the-provence.php Watch the video. This is immediately north of Center City. But it will be interesting to see how this turns out in comparison to Cincinnati's and perhaps give the people in this thread an example of an urban casino so you all can stop saying "What were you expecting?" I am definitely skeptical of this so far. The rooftop village idea....not into it.

It's no wonder so many projects are so terrible. With expectations like these, what else would you expect? Fact: other cities are building far more interesting, contemporary designs than what you see at The Banks, U-Square, the casino, etc. Cincinnati needs to get some more out of town architects and developers to infuse new ideas and raise the bar locally. I do like Mercer Commons (more for its problem solving abilities than its design, which I think is appropriate) and I am hopeful for the Dunnhumby site, but the casino is a perfect example of what you get when you have low expectations, and a lack of curiosity of what other places are doing.

The renderings still seem to be showing uninspired buildings. Nothing contemporary. Very blocky. Kind of bland. From what I am witnessing going up in Philly right now, some of which still has ways to go contemporary wise, these banks buildings still pale in comparison. Just my opinion tho.

I'd be worried about a team like the Phillies. They're streaking. The Cardinals have been flailing. If they get in, they will be limping.

So are you suggesting that the neighborhood just north of the site, Pendleton, is not worth responding to? Certainly, this structure in no way responds to what is directly across the street from it. All I am saying is that a more urban product could have and should have been delivered. It is easy to lump Broadway Commons into one giant site and say: "the entire area has no urban context." But when you start splitting it up into urban blocks (which was my preference from the beginning), suddenly you have blocks right in the middle of an urban area. What is wrong with developing the casino on the grid, integrating it that way? Did the parking HAVE to be attached? The site is massive, and to develop it the way they did does not allow for much flexibility in the future. This could have been a lot better. And to not call it out for its glaring problems would do a great dis-service to potential new projects or new investments that will either look at the casino as a good case study, or a bad one.

But that doesn't mean the building itself, or even the land parcel, has to be all casino, basically single use. With all the wasted space between the building and sidewalks you could still "skin" it with some narrow shops and other buildings that would have a more symbiotic relationship with the street. Exactly. Just like the convention center - since when did all convention centers have to be monoliths to their environment? Why can't they include retail on the ground floor? Similarly, casinos can be urban if they are thought of as just one piece of the puzzle. When you plan with single uses, you're going to get an anti-urban environment. It doesn't matter if it is an institutional use, industrial, or a casino, single use zones tend to be anti-urban. The casino, in conjunction with other uses, would have been a lot more appropriate. I'm not sure if this message was ever properly conveyed from the beginning. Anyone know?

I'm not entirely sure I follow your logic. It seems you're saying: "well, it's bad now, so why try to make it better? That's naive." Broadway Commons could be integrated into the rest of downtown - this isn't impossible. The goal of the casino, as with any urban development projects, should be to integrate itself into its environment. And when that environment is a blank slate, the goal should be to create a foundation for urban development to take root. This casino does neither. Why can't Cincinnati have an urban casino like Cleveland now has? Why can't we have a more mixed-use casino with retail along Reading? I think that would make residential rehab. in Pendleton even more inviting. It is so important to design for people and create great spaces and places - this will attract spin-off investment. Cincinnati had a chance to create a great place that captures 4-6 million visitors a year, but it failed. It is looking like it might as well become an island development - a drive in, drive out casino. How unfortunate and what a missed opportunity. In my opinion, Cincinnati needs to get rid of the mindset of "hey, atleast it isn't a surface parking lot anymore" and stop comparing down. Compare up, to things that have been done better in other places. Just mtc tho.

What boggles my mind are developer's/architect's/city official's/the general public's inability to deliver a building that addresses ALL sides of the public realm. It's like, anymore, there has to be a front of a building and the rest is forgotten about. Quality, well-rounded buildings are being built all across this country. It can be done. But the public has to demand high quality. With this, the Banks, and all of the infill in Uptown, there is a clear disconnect to what other parts of the country are achieving. Thankfully OTR has some shining examples of quality infill, and I'm hopeful of the new Dunnhumby site. I guess all I can say is - thank goodness this is on the outskirts of the CBD.

how many times did people on this site have to beat the drum about how horrible this structure was going to be? And now we have fat jenga blocks stacked on top of each other. This is an absolute travesty. From what I am seeing in these pictures, people in Cincinnati should be embarrassed.

I also don't know how the City is using it. If they were to do any development at that intersection, they could use some of the data from the plan, but shouldn't use the site plan as any real basis.

haha. I was hoping this would go unnoticed. That study is...embarrassing, for me at least. Yes, it was done by students. Yes, the graphics are awful. Yes, I was involved. It was a studio project in which we mostly did a feasibility analysis of development for the City of St. Bernard. It was done in 2008. I wouldn't put much, if any, weight behind it.

I keep meeting people (live in Philly, but a lot also from NY and other parts of the East Coast) whose only thing they know about Cincinnati is: "isn't that the place where their airport is in Kentucky?" And I have also heard on more than one occasion: "Isn't that the place where their airport is in West Virginia?" And you can tell what they are thinking, because this is all they know about Cincinnati - that is is obviously close to Kentucky, it might as well be Alabama. People seem more familiar with Cleveland.

Poor Camden. It really is a sad tale. On one side of the river is Center City. You go across the Ben Frank, and suddenly you're in another country. North Camden is particularly vacant, but not where the crime happens. Look to the farther southern areas for that. Lots of planning and ideas for Camden, but not much action.

The way city's function should be dumbed down in a lot of ways. The simplest urban forms are often the most effective. Having separate facilities for pedestrians, separating them from auto travel, really is anti-urban but also it is kind of confusing for people who aren't from around town. And when they visit, unaware that everyone is in the skywalks, they have a bad impression. Go to DT Houston and pretend you don't know about their underground tunnels, and see what your impression of that place is.

urbanindy.com is a good site. Although it does not have a forum. Indy people are big on SkyscraperPage and SkyscraperCity. I would definitely get involved over there.

The p&g courtyard is about as anti urban as you can get. It's a fortress. They might as well have put up a wall. That's what the space does - kills vitality on the street. Now if it was well integrated with a large mix of uses around it, that'd be different. Look at rittenhouse square in Philly for how spaces like this should be done. Then you'll realize this courtyard is not appropriate and poorly executed.

No funding for the Streetcar. Pickaway County has something to be excited for though... http://www.dot.gov/tiger/fy2012tiger.pdf

The neighborhood should focus on nodal commercial development. Intersections provide great opportunities for retail space and really adds to great sense of place characteristics not to mention increased convenience. Expecting commercial development along all corridor's ground floors might be unreasonable, but nodal development isn't.

On you know, I was all backwards. For some reason I was thinking this was NE side of the interseciton where the Junior League building is. Dumb mistake. I thought an office development was originally meant to be built here. Guess that isn't economically viable anymore.

Yea, those are terrible. And they don't belong here. Maybe above ground floor retail, but not like this.

who cares. the City wouldn't have the streetcar if cincy had unigov. streetcar > meaningless statistic

Did you all not read the report? They are including OTR in the 13,000 figure. Interestingly, the report shows an increase of almost 5,000 residents in the last 5 years in the CBD/OTR.