Gordon Bombay

Streetcar stations now have these QR codes for “arrival times.” The website loads about as fast as an Urban Ohio topic that’s trying to load a bunch of @KJP embedded tweets. When it does load, it takes you to this URL: https://bustracker.go-metro.com/hiwire?.a=iNextBusResults&StopId=2853781 Which is not mobile friendly, doesn’t show the line itself, and has the “scheduled” and “estimated” arrival times on the left. In fairness, it was accurate at least. The other option is to use the existing Transit app, which is great for regular users/frequent bus riders, but confusing for casual riders and first time users. Not to mention, takes time to download (and set up an account for) if you don’t already have it. None of this would matter if the actual, digital “estimated arrival screens” at the stations themselves… 1) Were still in use 2) Ever worked properly in the first place And still, those things wouldn’t have to be relied upon if the streetcar just operated on decent frequency and had signal optimization, etc. But hey, we’re only coming up on the 7th year of operation so maybe this city will get it right one day.

And I'm the one with the "lazy" attitude? Telling kids working their asses off to "toughen up," because you perceive their care for others as complaining? You're talking about a generation that continues to face mounting income inequality on top of incredible social upheaval. Get a grip.

There's an entire generation out there right now working their asses off for very little after they spent their youth following the same "advice" that @Brutus_buckeyeand @Lazarus are repeating here. While politicians are always going to be politicians, at least the younger generations seem to be more into empathy rather than buying into false tales of "bootstraps" and "it's morning in America again."

Mods, please band together and overthrow @ColDayMan. Thanks.

And they wonder why no one goes!

Sorry to double post, but, just noticed this. Five years ago today (five years and two days ago, actually), I published this story about the loss of Cincinnati's greatest arena: https://ronnysalerno.com/queencitydiscovery/2018/03/goodbye-to-gardens.html Even if this city builds the most modern, greatest arena of all time, NOTHING will ever beat the Gardens.

I will once again throw out the offer to anyone on this forum: if you want to hear my rants about US Bank Arena/Heritage, please join me for a Cyclones $1 beer night. 😀 I have so many thoughts on that building and its history + RC Cola has often been in those rants. Truthfully, I think RC is just fine, but a former roommate and I used to joke abut it every time we saw a concert or caught a game at the arena. "We come here for RC and 7-Up, the hockey game is just a bonus." Then we started buying RC Cola for our apartment and man... that stuff just isn't my cup of tea cola.

So you value engineer the biggest revenue generator (luxury suites) and the facilities needed to attract major sporting events like NCAA tourney games (locker rooms)? Which, again, leaves you with a Heritage Bank Center situation. A "modern enough" arena, but one lacking the latest updates to compete in attracting the latest events. I get your point, I really do, but you're talking about saving very minimal costs on what will ultimately be a massive project. The price tag is going to be huge no matter what, even if you buy traditional sinks for the bathrooms instead of automatic ones. If Cincinnati truly wants to compete for the events that require a "modern, major arena" then they will have to build the real deal (which is what Berding and co. have been proposing) and not some compromised half-measure. The question then becomes who pays for it and where does it go.

The issue with what you’re proposing, @Brutus_buckeye, is that aside from the locker rooms — it makes no sense to skip on other amenities. By cutting corners, you’re just replicating the Heritage Bank Center with nicer seats or another variant of the three other arenas in the region (all within ten minutes of the existing arena). And if you’re not regularly upgrading the building, you’re just achieving milquetoast status even quicker. And it’s moot anyways, what Berding and Visit Cincy are proposing is a modern arena, not something value engineered. The only real debate, as fun as this topic has been, is: who’s paying for it, where will it go, and can they really get it done.

Hara Arena was a great, old hockey barn and had the best pizza in all of Ohio. That's a poor comparison, though. That building was nothing like Heritage Bank Center, it was much older and small, and its situation was completely different. But god damn was that pizza good. So, again, if it's not built to modern standards—what's the point? How is a whittled down venue still a "major improvement?" Especially if a reduction in seating capacity and amenities doesn't differentiate the building from the three other (lower capacity, yet still modern and nice) l university arenas in the area? This is such Cincinnati logic. Either do it right, or don't do it at all.

Having a modern, indoor arena is certainly an amenity that can benefit a city and if a deal is brokered that benefits all parties (taxpayers, city, neighborhood, etc.) then it certainly wouldn't be a boondoggle. I certainly understand the skepticism of folks here in Cincy, however. Stadium deals haven't been great in our recent history. Also, while Heritage Bank Center is far from modern or perfect, I wouldn't say it's an embarrassment. Its seating capacity is large, it still hosts the major touring events that come through (wrestling, etc.). Is RC Cola gross? Do the bathrooms always have a thin layer of liquid on the floor that you can't tell is pee or water? Are the concourses small and cramped? The answers to these questions are all a resounding YES, but that hasn't stopped the building from packing folks in for monster trucks and hosting minor league hockey in a central location of the city. There's all this talk of "missed events," but... The RNC/DNC would realistically only come here once each (if that). The NCAA March Madness tournaments hosts its finals at indoor football stadiums now. Everyone says we miss concerts, yet, no one can seem to point out what concerts we're missing or an artist who specifically said "Oh, I'd come to Cincy, but I'm not playing at their arena because of X, Y, and Z." To be fair, I'm not doubting this point, I'm just always wondering who are these artists we're missing and is it really the building, or, other logistics or touring? Great venue? Not at all. But an embarrassment? I wouldn't go that far. And trust me, no one hates that venue more than me. Anyone who wants to hear a rant, come join me for a Cyclones dollar beer night. No, that logic is not the "same", because... One's an arena, one's a convention center. They're not comparable, because the Duke Energy Convention Center doesn't and wouldn't have a "tenant" in the same vein. It exists to host traveling events of a variety that an indoor arena could complement, but would never compete for. It has an argument for public support due to the economic impact it can contribute. Conversely, a modern arena that lacks a major tenant, has different merits to try and espouse and needs to be sold to the public in a different way (especially if they're going to support it financially). This logic just leads to the exact same situation we have now. If you're not going to build it to modern standards, then what's the point? Because that's what we've got currently. Heritage Bank Center is a relic of the past, but it's certainly not obsolete.

Uh... I mean... In the interest of getting back to the topic at hand. Guests arriving to Cincinnati via train could use that simple crossing type on their way to attractions such as the Lindner Omnimax theatre, or, a new arena.

This is not accurate. Newport was a proposed location, the first before Oakley and the West End. And while that may have been posturing, it wasn’t framed as a threat to “move” the team ala the Browns heading to Baltimore in the 90s.

Correct, today is 30 degrees, but I’ve been running through that area for the last three years and I spend a fair amount of time down there at the parks, etc. (granted, this is just anecdotal perception). And, truthfully, I hear you. The NURFC is wonderful, I love the sports stadiums, etc. Yes, on the weekends it’s busy, but even 7 PM on a non-game day summer evening seems pretty “dead” after the work crowd goes home. I guess my point was more-so, and I apologize if I didn’t articulate it clearly, that I feel like The Banks still needs more filling out, life, and vibrancy before the city embarks on another similar development ala The West End. If that makes sense? To me it just feels like The Banks has so much more potential that can be worked into that space—potential as in the things that can make it a neighborhood/community and not solely just a drinking area. Edit: Sorry, @ColDayMan. Columbia Street > That one slice of Astroturf Party Zone at The Banks.

Went for a jog this evening that wrapped around TQL Stadium, down towards the Convention Center, across Smale Park, and back up into the CBD. Objectively speaking, doesn’t it seem like a site closer to the convention center would make more sense? Especially with the arena being very unlikely to ever host a major tenant via the NBA or NHL, having it connected or close to the convention center at least would make it more of an “asset.” Not to mention, closer to The Banks. Speaking of which, I run through The Banks almost every time I jog. Yet, despite living Downtown for three years now, have never spent any time at the bars/restaurants there aside from occasionally Yard House. Sure, a lot of those places aren’t my kind of place, but The Banks just seems… “sad?” There’s really not much there and on non Reds/Bengals game days it’s super quiet aside from folks using the parks. The “DORA” area with its AstroTurf isn’t even on par with Ft. Wayne, Indiana’s pedestrianized street. I just feel like The Banks needs true life and development before there’s any talk of something similar in The West End. But that all just leads back to a discussion over what this city wants its urban core to be. A city, or, a series of “entertainment districts?” As an aside: drove by the casino on my way out of town last night. Also seems like a better area for an arena than The West End. Same with all those massive surface lots on the east side of downtown.

In terms of potentially landing franchises as tenants for this theoretical new arena, there’s a few things that need to be considered. NBA: As others have pointed out, potential NBA expansion cities in Seattle and Las Vegas already have the momentum and the markets. There’s also a few other American cities that could position themselves before Cincinnati, but I don’t think Louisville is one of them anymore. The “new” arena there is already 13 years old and its primary tenant is the UofL basketball team whose previous arrangements and deals have kept the NBA away. I don’t see the league placing a team that would be second fiddle within a building located in what would be the league’s smallest market. Especially if Cincinnati with a larger population and corporate sponsor base entered the discussion with a brand new, state-of-the-art arena. However, even if Cincinnati gets said arena, you then go back to other larger cities and markets being more appealing. At least for expansion. If Carl Lindner waves enough cash around, he might be able to get a team to relocate here, I guess. The NBA is a growing league with a brand that’s becoming increasingly recognizable globally. Competition for expansion teams or relocations is no doubt going to be tough if the league continues to be a hot commodity. Whereas the… NHL: A league not growing anywhere near as fast as the NBA and featuring a sport that’s much more niche. Several teams are currently on shaky financial ground (not destitute or anything, but there’s certainly a big gulf between the haves and have nots). There’s a lot of speculation that even MLS could overtake it in popularity over the next decade or so. In my opinion, the NHL has to be much more strategic with its smaller market teams. I doubt the Blue Jackets would view a Cincinnati expansion team as a bonus (whereas MLS in both cities is a totally different story that’s benefitted both). All this to say… At present, it doesn’t seem likely that either the NBA or NHL (the two major leagues who use indoor arenas) would realistically view Cincinnati as a strong expansion candidate—even with a new arena and rich, local ownership. So, is there really a true push to lure one of these leagues here, or, is it all just a talking point to try and sell people on the idea of a new arena? An amenity which, arguably on paper, would be a nice local asset even if it didn’t have a major sports tenant (depending on how it’s paid for and built, of course). The T-Mobile Center (formerly Sprint Center) in Kansas City is very nice facility built somewhat recently. It was the talk of expansion for awhile with both the NBA and NHL having serious considerations at one point, but neither league ever stepped in. Still, it exists as a modern facility for major concerts, etc.

Sounds like your issue isn’t remote work, but just a bad internet connection and folks who can’t figure out how to use their devices/apps. Also, conventions and the conversations within are very different than a brief remote meeting/virtual call. That’s a poor comparison. The pandemic proved that remote work can not only be effective, but that it’s here to stay. The companies offering such options and flexibility will continue to be better at recruiting than those still clinging to “back in my day” notions.

@ColDayManCan you move this topic into the boomers only area?

I feel like also increasing the frequency of the RT. 49 METRO bus could easily help. That’s pretty simple ride between Downtown and CUT.

In the event that 3C+D becomes a reality Cincinnati and would use the Riverfront Transit Center as its station (which I think would be great), would the Cardinal also switch to there…or…would it keep using Union Terminal?

Even by the earliest local workings of a formal World Cup bid (before the USSF even officially announced a three nation bid), Cincinnati was already drawing massive crowds at the lower division, and (arguably more intriguing) was one of the strongest markets for international soccer viewership in the US. What ultimately hamstrung Cincinnati’s bid (which still did relatively well) was the lack of rapid transit, minuscule available public transit, no substantial plans for improved transit, and a small (by available flights) airport. A convention center expansion would’ve looked nice in a power point, but I don’t think it would’ve moved the needle.

I hear ya, @Devand I’ve had the privilege to work with many of those people. They’re all fantastic and I love using Metro. I’m hopeful, but I’m also a Cincinnatian. *gestures at abandoned subway and winks at the riverfront transit center from the platform of a streetcar station where the real-time arrival sign isn’t accurate*

But we know this doesn’t have any chance of happening. What SORTA/METRO does have is some more investment in the form of the recent levy. As…interesting…as that set up is, there is a chance to make a big jump in transit access beyond what they’ve been doing so far (24 hour service, more frequency, a few new routes, etc). My fear is that local advocates might continue to say the words “Bus Rapid Transit,” but citizens won’t end up with anything actually like the BRT lines in Indy and Cleveland (which themselves have their own concessions and drawbacks from real rapid transit). I see things like the “bus only lane” on Main (which was only partially painted, isn’t enforced, and isn’t even really used by buses heading north) and remember a certain politician calling the 3X “BRT LITE”…. and that’s where I bristle at announcements like these regarding the Reading and Hamilton corridors. I have a sense of trepidation right now that in the end, all of these improvements will look good in a press release for job recruiters and business folks, but won’t actually make much of a difference in terms of our local bus service being rapid transit. I mean, the Metro+ is still to this day hardly any different (or faster) than the Route 4.

Now let’s see if it’s going to be real rapid transit or just PR fodder.

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks, @SleepyLeroy!