Gordon Bombay

^The FBI has headquarters near Kenwood? Where was their previous Cincinnati HQ?

It was a risk that couldn't be avoided. This a public project built in the public right-of-way, politics would've had to be involved regardless and the pro side has come out on top. No offense, but I think that's a flawed comparison. Some new busses don't amount to the cost, scale and complexity of a project like this. There was media coverage, I can remember reading articles in the BC, Enquirer and on Urban Cincy. The Enquirer even had an article on the busses when they brought some from Chicago to test. We had busses already so there wasn't a whole lot of negativity about it. I've never seen these arguments applied to Metro or the articulated busses by the media. Even if that's the case, I'd like to know a transit agency that reports a profit in the nation. Projects like these are not designed to generate shovelfuls of money. They provide a service, a service we pay for and the benefits of economic development and providing a service for the community often outweigh the cost. Why wouldn't the streetcar planners do their homework and publish a feasbility study? Comparing the addition of articulated busses to building an upstart rail project is in no way comparable. I'm sure there was political controversy over Queen City Metro's founding during the Luken days. Completely disagree. Look at the coverage of the Brent Spence Bridge replacement (I seem to remember some guy named "President Obama" giving a speech in front of it). The streetcar deserves media coverage as its a newsworthy item. Does it deserve the kind of coverage its been getting? As a journalism student and someone who's worked for a paper - I'd say that coverage has been poor, however it's getting this attention because it's a newsworthy subject, not because it was "made" into a political issue. Come on.

Wish I could make it. I'm saving the one off day I can swing at my co-op until there's a groundbreaking.

Wasn't the mayor making some noise about a small arena being constructed in order to host boxing matches?

10 hours? That seems quite a bit unlikely. Everywhere seems to post that it does have some delays, but how often is it ten hours late? Sherman, thanks for the info. I've been to Camden before. It's a far cry from the likes of places like Cedar Point/King Island etc, but it's got a lot of character. However, for some reason I had it in my mind that it wasn't far from the Amtrak station Seems to be an hours walk from 8th St. in Huntington and 3 hours walk from the Cattlesburg station. I don't mind walking, gives me a chance to explore. I've never been to Charleston, but a friend of mine who is currently working there describes it as "Not Wild and Wonderful (like the state's marketing motto says), but Tame and Terrible." What's the deal with Greenbrier not allowing pictures? That's pretty lame. As for D.C., I'm kind of turned off by the 14 hour ride possibly becoming an 18 hour ride or longer. Although I wouldn't mind spending some time in the nation's capital. Natninja, any idea how long that layover is in Indy? Checking out Indy for a bit before going to Chicago could be cool. How long did it take you to get to NYC? I've never been to the actual city, just in the burbs and once on Long Island when I was too young to remember it. Taking the train and then public transport seems a lot less hectic than driving and more cost efficient, but again - time. Seems like the novelty would wear off quick. Thanks again everyone for the advice!

So this summer, I opted out of going on my family vacation. I love my family, but I get one vacation a year and want to do something different and cool. This trip doesn't necessarily have to be a week long summer vacation, it could even be a weekend trip, but I wanted to get some advice from here. I've never used Amtrak, it seems easy enough, but the service out of Cincinnati seems pretty limited. The Cardinal arrives in the middle of night. Some destinations I had in mind: Chicago - Been there many times, all by driving. Love the city and always park once and use public transit. Only drawback is how long it takes the train to get there. The estimated time is 10 hours, I can drive in five. Indianapolis - Been here a few times, never experienced the city very much. Estimated time is three hours which isn't too bad of timing and I could spend the day there and catch the train on the way back. Huntington, WV - Never really experienced the city, but there's a great little amusement park there that I could go back to and check out. Could be a fun trip. White Sulphur Springs, WV - Train ride is about three hours longer than driving, but I could catch a train on the way back to Cincinnati the same day. White Sulphur Springs is home to the Greenbrier museum (the one where they have the awesome underground bomb shelter, but is there anything else to do in this town? Washington, DC - Estimated time is 14 hours via train. It'd have to be a weekend/longer trip. I wouldn't mind going back to D.C. Haven't been there since the 6th grade (2001 (before 9/11)). A few concerns I have are obviously the amount of time it takes. I support rail transit and such, but I gotta admit it's pretty hard to swallow how long some of these trips take when I can drive there much faster. Chicago for example - It feels like I'd be adding five hours of novelty train riding time. Then again, I don't mean to characterize it as a novelty, I've never experienced Amtrak. However, I've heard that the trains are rarely on time (pardon me if that's an incorrect assumption). I still think it would be a cool adventure. I want to travel somewhere new, somewhere urban and experience a new city or something you know... just new. When the trains stop along the Cardinal line, do you have time to get off and see what's around or do you just stay on the train? Any advice/recommendations would certainly help and I appreciate anybody's input. To throw some credit out there: Robert Pence, if you're reading this, your posts and photos have inspired me to check out Amtrak. Edit: Is it possible to bring a bike along?

^Streetcar is set to happen. As for future extensions? We'll have to wait and see. - Light Rail, I don't think we'll be able to push for that until the economy recovers (if a tax raise is needed) and the streetcar has been built and proves itself to be successful. - Commuter Rail, from what the officials say: Oasis Line commuter in the Eastern Corridor may happen. From what other have said: it's a sham by ODOT. - High Speed Rail, I don't see that happening in a long time. Aside from Acela on the left and right coasts, are any other high speed lines being built in the US?

That wasn't the wrap, that's just Detroit. *rimshot* Thomasbw, any speculation on which cars you think they'll pick?

GREAT editorial. Can't wait to hear who they selected to manufacture the cars. Personally hoping for Siemens', as they look more akin to light rail vehicles and much sleeker than the Skoda cars. Anyone have any idea if they'll do advertising wraps on the cars like they've done with Metro busses?

I'd be willing to do that. Not necessarily its own site, but I'd be happy to throw them on QC/D once it's back up and running next week. If anyone's interested, shoot me a private message or email me: queencitydisco[at]gmail.com

I wouldn't necessarily say unchecked - I haven't seen the full article as I don't have the BC's Premium subscription (gonna go check for it in the office lobby in a minute), but from what I can see he's just reporting the story. I think the frustration should be more aimed at COAST for their annoying and useless tactics. From everything I've seen, the BC does A LOT better job at reporting than most Enquirer articles I've read. I would hope their articles don't have 10 COAST quotes and 1 supporter quote like Harry Borstman.

^Thanks buddy. Thinking it may make a good QC/D article when my site rises from the dead.

For what it's worth, here are the opening years from the project phasing and implementaion schedule of the Metro Moves plan, 2002 Final Report: 8&ST, is this report available online somewhere, would love to check it out!

Really? Cause I don't see any other Cincinnati politicians filing so many useless lawsuits. This too shall pass. COAST will keep whining and clawing at anything they can and while we shouldn't get overconfident - this project is in the best shape its been in so far. We're so close to the finish line. If the Enquirer is even now ignoring COAST - I take that as a good sign since most Cincinnati voters have been ignoring them the past four years.

Thanks for posting, great shots. Nice to see the progress on the new WTC. Makes me want to go to NYC.

Eighth and State, it doesn't matter how long winded you make your post about the sewer conflict or how you try to rationalize it. What it comes down to is more dirty politics from the opposition. Somehow we've been able to build hundreds of rail projects in other American cities without these nonsense concerns. Are you playing devil's advocate or do you really believe all that stuff you just said. It's nonsense. What if a sewer collapses and they have to do work under the wire. Good point! Yeah, we shouldn't build it. I'm gonna stop driving as well, cause what if an overhead powerline falls and lands on my truck like in that Andy Griffith episode? Eight and State logic is why it takes so long for anything to get done in this town.

Maybe it's just the optimist in me, but if Sec. LaHood is coming to town for just a $10M grant it would seem that he has faith in the project. I take it as a good sign. The streetcar's in a great position. As for the uptown route, I'm all for it, but if Banks to Findlay is all we're going to build at this time - we couldn't be better set for the future.

^ I think that's the way to go. A friend and I went to The Banks last night to try Johnny Rockets and things were hopping down there. I'm excited to see what it's like this summer when baseball games let out and I think the streetcar will be a great way to get people up the square/otr bars and such. I know I can't wait to use it. Not to mention the potential to connect with the RTC.

I wouldn't mind seeing greenspace there covering the highway.

^You as well sir. I edited mine to give you some props - very well said.

I'm sorry Eighth and State, but I have to respectfully disagree with a lot of what you just pointed out. I apologize in advance for how much of your post I'm going to cut up and quote and for how long winded mine will be, but I promise the point I'm about to make does eventually come full circle to the topic at hand. Can you elaborate on this? Since you asked, Yes, I'm happy that something is finally happening there, but I'll tell you why I think it's been a disappointment. It has taken way too long to build. At the time of the stadium campaign, the assumption was that it was going to open at about the same time as the stadiums. That's 10 years of potential activity, property tax revenue, and postcard views that were lost. I agree with you here, the beauracratic delays that hampered the project from even starting were both an embarrassment and a disappointment. It was stupid walking along 2nd Street to a game at the ballpark and overlooking that vast mud pit where 1/2 of Riverfront Stadium used to sit. It's a shame it took so long, but look how far the project has come since the groundbreaking. Even the Enquirer (Yes, our local paper whose support of the city and journalistic practices are questionable at best) had a front page article in the Sunday paper today about the project and it successes. From the actual Banks thread, I know a lot of people have problems with the design. I never really questioned it or thought much of it until I learned about architectural design from friends and posters on here. I agree, it appears pretty generic. I like how the stadium buts up to all of it like it's "in the neighborhood," but thirty years from now will everything age well ala Wrigley Field neighborhood? Who knows, but to the typical ballpark goer or Holy Grail drunk - it's something new, cool and fun to do. I'll admit, I've never paid to go into the Freedom Center. Every time I've been there has been on an assignment or job. However, the museum and its staff are fantastic. The few rotating exhibits I've seen - great. The problem is that it just doesn't do well as a standalone museum. A wing in the museum center would've been perfect. I wish they'd be able to attract some sort of traveling smithsonian exhibits or the like. I see your point, its attendance is disappointing, but as far as being the "centerpiece," what else would you have? There's plenty of other retail space around it and anything taller would block an already iconic and beautiful skyline. Parking that as The Banks expands will be in garages hidden from view. Not sure how that reflects poorly on The Banks. The Banks could be packed to the brim with cancer curing health centers ATM's that spew free money, still doesn't change that Mike Brown is Mike Brown and The Bengals are well.... The Bengals. I remember the marina in the rendering. I always thought that was cool, but was it practical? A rendering is just a rendering, it's not like we were promised a marina at the ballot box. Having worked in the amusement industry, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a rendering of something the employer is planning to build and next year it's never quite like the artwork. Look at the cities you're highlighting when discussing waterfronts. Five of the six cities you mention border an OCEAN (the Ohio River is not an ocean), one borders Chesapeake Bay (and yeah, "technically" the Sesquehanna River), but to compare Cincinnati to these isn't fair or logical. How these cities utilize oceanfront is much different to how a city like Cincinnati could capitalize on the river front. You can't go swimming in the Ohio River by downtown (Or at least I wouldn't recommend it), there's no room for boardwalk piers, no surfing, no beaches etc. So what's your point? You just negated your own line about how The Banks is disappointing since it doesn't interact with the waterfront, but there "just isn't much action there anymore?" Huh? The Ohio River isn't much of a tourist attraction, it's a major artery for inland shipping. There's attractions on the river (B&B Riverboats etc.), but how much of a market can there be? How many more riverboat tour companies could really operate in the area anyways? What exactly do you want there to be that "interacts" with the River? I think the new park will do just fine. Sawyer Point is packed in the summer and spring with people just taking in the view. I know, I ride my bike there from my apartment almost every evening. It's not an oceanfront or beachfront, so really what can you do? No. We didn't. US Bank Arena still stands and The Cyclones stuck around. Two pervious incarnations (IHL and ECHL) of them folded and re-located, but that was due to competition from ANOTHER minor league hockey team further up town. They came back and still play to this day in the US Bank Arena (although we should've had an NHL team in the 70's, but that's a story for another topic and when there's more beer). We never really "lost" the cyclones, and when we sort of did - it wasn't because of subsidized developments on the other side of the arena. Don't forget to add "Caddy's" to the list, which relocated and got torn down to build a giant church on top of an abandoned waterpark. I heard Mark Miller make a similar argument when he called into taestell's radio show one time. He complained about all these good bars we lost when we built the stadiums and how there is now no nightlife in Cincinnati. The nightlife is doing well, getting better and I think the benefits of The Banks, stadiums and keeping the pro teams for outweigh keeping Caddy's and the Spaghetti Warehouse/Factory/Whatever it was. Trust me, having stood in the subway and researched it for years, I feel the frustration on this one. That's all coming together now and none of that was funded as part of the original Banks/Stadium plan, so how is that a disappointment on The Banks fault? We have the Transit Center, geared towards the future and as this thread has indicated - we may see some real use for it very soon. Ever eaten there? It's nothing special. Yeah, it sucks the promise to have it open year round never panned out, but that didn't make much sense anyways and it's not part of "The Banks," so really who cares? Go there when the ballpark is open if you'd like, bring lots of money and prepare for mediocre food. And this statement you concluded with is what inspired me to make this post and round out my point back to the Eastern Corridor, I thank you for it. Look, you can compare it with what it could be all you want. Kings Island could've been on par with Disney World. The Cincinnati Stingers could've been in the NHL. Queen City Square could've had a better looking tiara. The point is - this is what we've got and lets be honest - we're damn lucky to have it in this economy and in a day and age where cities getting projects like this are hit and miss. We can sit on a message board all day and talk about what they could've done instead, but hindisght is 20/20 and we're not playing Roller Coaster Tycoon. This is what we got with the resources and funds provided. The design - questionable. The tenants - not everyone's cup of tea. Did it take a long time - yeah it did. However, the ship of opportunity hasn't sailed and The Banks every month gets better and better. No need to waste time with what could've happened, that's just a distraction. Appreciate what we do have and in reality - it's not a disappointment, it's an improvement. The attitude you take reminds me of why we have two miles of abandoned subway tunnel beneath Central Parkway. Edit: While I was typing, OctoCincy pretty much said the same thing in a lot less words, hats off to him for his post. So now you've got a downtown on the move, the north end of which is anchored by a revitalized OTR. It's all going to be connected via the streetcar (knock on wood for Tiger III funds and Banks extension). You've got talks of the Eastern Corridor really happening. Soon you'll hopefully be able to take a train from the East Side, right onto "Cincinnati's Front Yard" and from there there's plenty to do and a downtown full of activity. It's not about connecting with the industrial corridor river, it's about connecting people jobs, attractions and business. The first month I had my new bicycle, I rode from my apartment in Ft. Thomas to Sawyer Point. I was so excited to be riding again, i took off down Pete Rose Way and went out East, following the tracks as best I could. I couldn't believe how we didn't have a rail line there - the infrastructure is just sitting there. Now, having read about the issue, I understand it would take significant upgrades, stations, etc. However, we have a mostly preserved corridor to do this in. While it will be costly, I can see it being a success. There's no direct highway out East, the traffic that way is terrible. What a more perfect place for commuter rail? No highway to compete with. Lets build it and show people in this city how rail transit works. In closing, I see the Eastern Corridor as being a huge asset to not just the future of rail transit in Cincinnati, but the future of The Banks and the surrounding suburban area. For once, Cincinnati is chasing what we see as bold, new ideas (lets face it, rail transit isn't new elsewhere). That's what this city needs. Strengthen the downtown and create easy, accessible ways to bring a variety of people to it quickly and safely. That's the end of my rant, thanks for reading. Abridged version: - Eighth and State's wrong, Banks is not a disappointment. - Cincinnati should've had an NHL team. - Easter Corridor = great idea. - I had the afternoon off work with free time on my hands.

I literally just came from there. Holy Grail was packed, there was a line for Johnny Rocket's window and there were people partying on the balconies for the apartments. Dissapointing indeed, like a ghost town over there.

With these Tiger III funds, would the extension to The Banks/GABP/Riverfront be built? I was really bummed to see this phase be cut out of the first line. While I have no doubt the streetcar will be successful without that extension, it seems like a no-brainer to connect it to The Banks, Ballpark and Transit Center. Anyone have any idea what the chances are for Cincy winning? I wonder if our political climate affects the consideration of Cincy.

I was just discussing this with a friend and I think the big thing was how much longer the campaign seemed to go on. Even before the ballot initiative for Issue 9 was a done deal signature wise, CFP was established and preparing for it to actually happen. I think there was a lot of doubt that Smitherman would go at it again and even then be successful with getting another issue on the ballot. Things ramped up once he did. Even COAST, until Smitherclown had signatures, didn't seem prepared for another ballot run (did they even have signs this year?). The other thing seemed to be who was on the radio. 700 WLW is a big (yet often stupid) voice. Last time you had Cunningham vocally against Issue 9 calling Smitherman a "clown." This time he has Smitherman on ALL THE TIME. You also had more reasonable talking heads (McConnel and even Sloan who had his own show at the time). Now you can tune in at almost anytime and whether it's Amazon or Cunningham, the views are the same.

Don't forget trackless trollies, also known as trolly buses. Seattle, San Francisco, Boston, Philidelphia, and Dayton have them. For lots of material about trolleybuses, see Trolleybuses.net Actually, trolley buses instead of streetcars on rails are starting to grow on me, especially after that discussion of underground utility work required to install rails. Are you Mark Miller in disguise? He wrote some goofy editorial last time around about why "trolley busses" were better than streetcars. Randy Simes counter argued on UrbanCincy and pointed out why Miller's straw man argument about busses was just a distraction from the real conversation. There's a reason cities are emulating Portland's Modern Streetcar system and not Dayton's trolleybus system (hell even Seattle opted for modern streetcars and it already has Trolley Busses (maybe they weren't too concerned about the utilities?)) I just got back from Chicago last night where I used both CTA busses and trains. The friends I brought with me never use public transportation at home (one had ridden a few metros in Europe). It was funny how much easier of a time I had getting them to ride Red Line subway with me compared to when I had to convince them to hop on the bus with me (they were so wary of the bus, they offered to cover all cab costs for the rest of the trip). Point is, rail is more attractive, has a higher capacity and is easier to navigate for those who don't regularly use or understand public transit. I've lived in Cincinnati for 22 years and have worked downtown regularly for three years, I still find METRO and TANK's routes and "schedules" difficult to understand and if it's after 10 PM they don't do me any good anyways.