shs96

Yes, I know people who plan trips to specifically go to Casinos in neighboring states. And having gone with them on occassion, I also see the high volumes of Ohio plates in the parking lot. And this is seperate from the day bus trip people, who I also know exist.

I agree with this completely. Go to E4th and it's a little different crowd than W6th. And I think we all have experience with the large volume of people who are ignorant to what life is like in downtown Cleveland and something like a Casino may draw them in...and suddenly they realize "hey, it's not that bad down here" and start branching out.

He should have been traded before the draft when his value was higher. he was never going to fit with Mangini...and Mangini should have seen that. Straw that broke camel's back. Apparently most of the "unamed player" off the field incidents about the Browns were primarily Braylon...not paying the mini-bar tab, parking in reserved spaces at team facilities, buying $2,500 worth of booze from the liquer store with Dante Stallworth the night before Dante ran that guy over, and asking a DB on another team DURING A GAME what the best way to get into modeling/acting was... Let's clarify the wasn't the $2500 worth of booze at the club? Could be...I forget exactly what I read at the time.

He should have been traded before the draft when his value was higher. he was never going to fit with Mangini...and Mangini should have seen that. Straw that broke camel's back. Apparently most of the "unamed player" off the field incidents about the Browns were primarily Braylon...not paying the mini-bar tab, parking in reserved spaces at team facilities, buying $2,500 worth of booze from the liquer store with Dante Stallworth the night before Dante ran that guy over, and asking a DB on another team DURING A GAME what the best way to get into modeling/acting was...

Withi unlimted resources (i.e., money) it wouldn't be that hard really. Start by giving the school system funding, update facilities, have new materials, have wide varieties of after school programs (athletic, music/arts, clubs) in each Cleveland neighborhood. Then give police, fire, and other city service departments enough funding to allow them to do their jobs effectively (re: hire more people, get more equipment). Give people something to do (Kids - school, after school programs. Adults - jobs improving and taking care of the city) and everything else will resolve itself I think.

The "substitution" is not between going to the museum vs. going to the casino. The substitution is between having poker night in your buddy's basement and giving each other $100 each or going to a casino and having a dealer get paid while you play in the poker room. Or driving to MI, IN, PA, NY, WV, KY, etc to go gambling or just stay in town at the local Casino. Or gambling where ever you currently gamble in a state not names Ohio and substituting gambling in Ohio instead. No more bus trips to Windsor or Atlantic City.

This is what gets me excited about hosting this event...Cleveland has an event - with specific dates, big crowds, and lots of attention - which they can really show off the city. Not only make it a great time for the participants, but also showcase what a great city it is and hopefully make some people come back, or send off some great word of mouth about "what a great time we had in Cleveland". So many of these projects - Towpath Trail, FEB, filling in Euclid Ave, etc - have been in the proposal stage. Well, now you have something to shoot for. That and my wife went to Gay Disney with her brother (who is gay) and she said it was a pretty ridiculous time, so should be, if nothing else, a fun week or so!

Sheesh, hold a grudge much? :-P lol...I only added that part in case someone decide to go check the thread and investigate... Plus I still regularly think/wish the RTA was more accessible from the West Bank and I remember what I was told when I asked around about it on the forum. Walking is fine for me; not so much for my wife if she's dressed up (which probably supports your point). Ultimately I agree the West Bank is not transit freindly although the Flat Iron has a shuttle to sporting events...Christie's has a shuttle to W6th ;) Bring back the Holy Moses water taxi!

Why must everything be in one place? WHY??!!! And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place". If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank. If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see. Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer. Why you ask? How about it would be nice to be able to get to the aquarium without driving? I really doubt that RTA would divert a bus to go down to the west bank of the flats for an aquarium considering their financial woes, so the nearest bus stop is W25 and Detroit. I know it's less than a half mile from W25th and Detroit to the powerhouse, but for an attraction that will bring mostly families, it would be ideal IMO for it to be somewhere that most of us can get to either on foot from downtown while pushing a stroller or with a very short walk from a bus/brt/train from downtown. Considering that half mile walk is uphill on the way out of the flats, it's not very pedestrian friendly. (Have you ever pushed a stroller with a whiny kid uphill for half a mile? Or tried to drag a toddler that far that has decided after walking around the aquarium their feet are tired and they just want a nap?) If I didn't know better I'd think that you're endorsing a location that guarantees that most customers drive. If an aquarium ends up in the powerhouse, I can guarantee my wife wouldn't try to get there without the car, and I doubt too many other parents with small children would try either, and I assume families with small children are going to be one of the primary target audiences of an aquarium. I don't think it everything must "be in one place", but I do think it should be somewhere more walkable for families than the powerhouse. (I should add the disclaimer that the last time I walked from the west bank of the flats to downtown was well over a decade ago and I was not completely sober, so the steepness of the hill may not be as significant as I remember.) I find it highly ironic that "lack of transit friendly options" is being sited as a reason for poor location. When I brought up the idea of expanding a circulator into the West Bank in the RTA thread (years ago) I was ridiculed...told "people like to walk across the river from the Settler's Landing station" or "W25th & Detroit is right there". Apparently, it is all about perception. BTW, you can walk to Tower City from the West Bank and not really walk up any hills...there is a back door. There are also stairs on the back side of the Federal Courthouse, which has a walkway to TC. Or the aquarium could provide a shuttle... Or the majority of your visitors are going to be coming from non-transit friendly areas anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Fair enough...I suppose I think a values/merits based argument is a different argument than whether or not it has economic value, although I see how they are related. Personally, I don't see a Casino being much different than a bar... You go to a Casino to have fun and spend money and maybe get lucky...but you don't count on it. The same way to go to a bar to have fun and spend money and maybe you'll "get lucky"...but you don't count on it ;)

I don't think so. An aquarium is a very different commercial use than, say, a restaurant or a movie theatre. The latter two uses are the kinds of amenities that encourage the kind of frequent returns that contribute to a residential neighborhood, whereas an aquarium may be visited once or twice a year, if that. There is no real advantage to living nearby. Well, the aquarium could spurn the development of more entertainment options in the West Bank if it ends up bringing more visitors into the area, which in turn could spurn more residential development...not sure about Stonebridge expansion though...

So do you feel the same about restaurants? Or bowling alleys? Or comedy clubs? Or any other venue where nothing "of value" is created, people just pay for entertainment? Are there not entire economies based off tourism and entertainment?

CSU is already working on building a more residential campus, which is great. But "campus" is only as good as the number of people who live there. So when this campus is done and you're a high school Sr and you're looking at state schools...you don't think the idea of having a casino in your back yard would not be a big draw for some? With free transportation (more or less - you get an RTA pass w/ tuition) between campus and x, y, z entertainment districts? Options...options are awesome.

Why do you feel the Powerhouse is struggling? I don't have any numbers, but the parking lot usually has a good number of cars in it. Thu-Sun it looks pretty full. Rock Bottom and Howl at the Moon are pretty consistently crowded Thurs-Sun, and there is almost always an event at Windows on the River....... Isn't there another club in there too...at the east side of the building? Let's get a list of all current active tenants... Improve... Is that still there? It was when I was there last...last year. (I was actually in the place) Yes, the Improv is still there. And Cyrus, which I think is more of an event center only open Fri/Sat in the summer. But Rock Bottom, Howl at the Moon, and The Improv still draw big crowds...and the charity poker events.

Why do you feel the Powerhouse is struggling? I don't have any numbers, but the parking lot usually has a good number of cars in it. Thu-Sun it looks pretty full.

What kind of impact (aside from the publicity, an economic draw of the events themselves) do you think this will have? I'm pretty sure most of the downtown hotels could use some "refreshing" ... is it realistic to expect these events (gay games in particular) will bring in more retail to downtown?

I was reading this article - and have seen this argument within the casino discussion as well - and I was hoping someone could help me understand this line of thought. That being "jobs going to residents". It mentions Zack Reed demanding residents be hired to work at the aquarium. Who else would be hired? Wouldn't working at the aquarium require you uto live in Cleveland? And if you moved here from somewhere else to work at the aquarium, why is that at all a bad thing? You're either hiring local residents or drawing population (with income) to the region. How is either of these scenarios bad?

That's some great journalism right there! Very informative post...

So you're saying it's not leaving directly to other states, just somewhere else? So how is it not leaving Ohio?

the pictures of the west bank remind me of the opening montage of Major League...pretty cool

Well I know I'm not flying in Coach, with the exception of the early morning continental flight. I'm 6'4" and sitting in Coach is not comfortable or acceptable to me. I'm 6'5". It's called "exit row".

I've really enjoyed watching the scaffolding come down. I moved back home in July 2006 (with my wife) and this is the first she has ever seen it without scaffolding - she commented the other day how great it looks with little scaffolding around it. I *almost* forgot what a great looking building it is!

All you have to do to figure out why people don't take rail as much is look at the Rapid Map and see where it goes. Then look at any other major city with expansive subway networks, see how much more area it covers, and there's your answer. Rail lines are like telephones: they are only as useful as they are abundant. I'm sure people would think telephones were a bad idea too if you had no one to call. Instead the government made sure every house had access to a phone line. Think if they did the same for rail...

lol...be sure to check the organ donor box on your way down...

I have two friends that live in that area...it's definately where I would live if I lived in Columbus. Not that it wasn't nice before, but it seems to have really grown since my friend bought his house there 5 or 6 years ago...