shs96

I made Symon's Pork Cheek and Black Eyed Pea Chili yesterday that I found in <a href="http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/super-bowl-blowout">this article.</a> Not surprisingly, it was really, really good. Took awhile to put together, but it was worth it. If you don't like spicy food, I might cut back on the jalepenos or chipotles...it had some zip to it.

Mexicans in Texas? Shocking. Who Knew. Apparently the demographics in Columbus are substantially different than in NE Ohio as well because the Columbus Crew draws pretty well: CREW ATTENDANCE AVERAGES MORE THAN 20,000 OVER LAST FIVE HOME GAMES IN 2007 Over the last five home games of the 2007 regular season, Crew attendance averaged 20,295. The impressive run at the gate started on Aug. 18, when 21,639 filled Crew Stadium for the Black & Gold's game vs. D.C. United. That was followed by crowds of 16,036 on Sept. 2; 19,983 on Sept. 8; 24,300 on Sept. 30; and 19,517 on Oct. 6. http://columbus.crew.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20071112&content_id=129074&vkey=news_coc&fext=.jsp&team=t102 (last blurb) Point is, there is an audience for soccer. No it's not the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. I think an MLS stadium in midtown Cleveland would be ideal, used by CSU, high school football (Ignatius actually playing home games in Cleveland? Plus the emergece of Glenville...I think it would be great), and of course the MLS team. Wasn't there another thread discussing "alternative recreation facilities" in midtown? I think it would be a good fit with that theme. However, if the city (Cleveland) is not interested in this type of project yet a potential MLS franchise feels NE Ohio is a viable market, putting a stadium in Macedonia is not a bad idea. Its just tiring reading this board sometimes and its strong anti-suburbs overtone.

Because the vast majority of urban ohio posters feel suburbia is the root of all evil and unless you can take the RTA there, there's no reason for it existing. They blame suburbanites for the downfall of the city rather than the people that still lived in it and screwed it up when growth protruded outward. Anything new in the suburbs is the worst idea in the history of man. Anyway, I know what you mean that it could bolster things. Frisco, TX (far north suburb of Dallas) built an MLS stadium and a minor league basbeball stadium and its done very well to hlep spur growth in the northern suburbs. The difference though is the DFW metroplex can support outward expansion; Cleveland can't.

Another reason I think Cleveland gets a lot of the headlines is due to the State of Ohio's foreclosure timeline. To keep it simple, Ohio is a long foreclosure state, meaning there is more time (2 years on average) from the time of "foreclosure" to "real estate owned". In contrast, look at Texas. It is generally considered a growing state with expanding cities. Yet by volume, it leads the nation in number of foreclosures (or has in recent years). However, the timeline there is short, meaning once you go into foreclosure, the bank is going to own your property pretty quickly (6 months). So there is more churn, less empty/abandoned houses, and less time for a disgruntled homeowner to neglect thier soon to be former property. I guess my point is foreclosure laws vary state to state and Ohio's foreclosure laws extend the process. While it's supposed to be favorable to the consumer, it actually makes things look worse than they are.

you mean the outer suburbs will Downtown has been growing at a faster rate than the suburbs as of late. What makes you think, with the recent popularization of New Urbanism and exploding gas prices, that this trend won't continue? I think this is the whole point. Building one will help the other, regardless of which order it is completed. Build out in suburbia (where you basically cut off half of your eligible employment population) or start anew in WHD or FEB? Once one of them is there and gaining momentum, the other is only going to benefit from being that close in proximity to more retail/residential/office. Should FEB be first, doesn't that make the WHD plan that much more appealing? And vice versa?

I agree completely. The FEB project simply develops prime real estate within the CBD. How many people who work off E 9th are walking to W 6th for lunch anyway? Besides, there are ways to get to these places without walking...trolley, bus, cab. Plus the FEB, at least from what I've heard, intends to have the amenities you speak of. The idea is to strengthen downtown Cleveland, which FEB is a part of. I can see the argument if you think this will just shift things around and thin them out, but the hope would be to create another viable area to work, eat, shop, and live downtown in addition to what is already here.

I think they're insinuating the convienence of the RTA and parking lot deters people away from walking up and down w25th, particularly when its cold. I mean, I don't know where people are out and about walking around when its cold but W25th looks pretty busy during warm weather days (or even not freezing days). And even when its cold, there are lots of people around...just not walking outside exploring.

Being an election year, anyone else waiting to hear - when asked about energy issues - an answer beyond the standard "alternative fuels, cap greenhouse gasses" to "invest in public transportation"? It seems like an easy enough part time/short term solution. Doesn't necessarily require new fuels, invests in existing infrastructure...maybe I'm looking at it too simplisticly.

1. Gateway (aforementioned reasons) 2. CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM - Surprised no one mentioned this. Cleveland is a sports town and the Browns, generally, come first. The NFL is the most prosperous of all sports leagues and without this, the Browns - and their revenue - wouldn't be here. Football at the old Municipal Stadium was significantly better, but I'd rather have a generic corporate stadium with a football team than no football team at all. 3. Rock Hall - Gives a face to Cleveland tourism.

With all due respect, you're showing a serious lack of understanding about financing when it comes to development. Banks don't give loans with that kind of flexibility for projects of this scale. Banks don't say "oh well, never mind the thousands of hours invested in preparing the papers for this, we'll just take whiteout to the pages where you can't develop". Um sorry - doesn't work that way. In the same situation, the city cannot give a developer that kind of flexibility with their contracts. That's a careless approach to handling taxpayer money and opens the door for abuse. My point was they knew there were considerable obsticles to hurdle from the start. Rather than include those obsitcles in their master plan for submission for financing, limit it to what they know they can get done. When those obsticles have been worked through and you can further the deve, submit for additional financing. And if they aren't worked through, then you at least have developed valuable assets. I didn't expect the bank to just line item veto parts that were no longer to be included. Have phase 1, phase 2, phase 3 - all with separate financing. If you never get to phase 3, phase 1 and 2 will be there creating value. If that is not possible, then yes, I need to be educated on how development works. I would rather that the Economic Development and Law Departments (that my tax dollars pay for to represent me) be empowered to ask questions and keep everyone honest. You'd be surprised at what people will try to pull aka "well the city should just hand over hundreds of thousands of dollars - but don't ask us to itemize everything. Just be glad we're deeming you worthy of helping our project". That "prevailing attitude" exists to ensure that my tax dollars are being used effectively and in a way that will benefit the city. Developers have people on their team doing the same exact thing - but because it irks you - apparently the city and its residents don't deserve the same? I wasn't suggesting the city (or any involved party) not be thorough. I was suggesting it often seems that the parties are working against each other rather than with each other. "Keeping people honest" is why various branches of government exist and for good reason. But I'm sure everyone has had to work with someone else before to accomplish a goal and each person involved has different interests in mind. Some things are easier to work on than others, and most of the time it has little to do with the task at hand, but rather the attitude of the people you're working with. I'm not questioning the core function of the city government or its departments; I'm questioning the manner in which they go about their business. I'm sure many of you have watched/been a part of a city council meeting or meetings of other government departments. How often do you walk away with adjectives like, challenging, teamwork, and helpful in your head rather than abrasive, stubborn, and difficult?

Why not? The streets outside my front door are ripped up right now. I don't question the issue. I'm saying that issue has no bearing on the first building that is proposed to be completed. I don't think only being able to develop 75% of the proposed project should preclude you from getting started. I would think having a number of residents and businesses down there putting pressure on the strip club to move would be more powerful that just owning property and having a proposal on the table...should it come to that (and as we found out, it didn't). Obviously there will need to be upgrades, but I didn't know the area that used to be home of a thriving entertainment district was void of all utility infrastructure. Not familiar with the Atlantic Yards, but I've been to the WTC site a few times since 2001 and each time I go, I can visually see progress. In fact, there's a website you can check out to see for yourself: http://www.projectrebirth.org/ Is there a new building yet? No. But it is in progress and if you revisit every few months, you can see whats changed. I imagine they had a lot of hoops to jump through there too, but it's moving along... It's just an overall culture. The differences don't extend simply to projects...even business culture in the community. So while the situation here may be different than elsewhere, I just think there is a prevailing attitude over anything that goes like this: OK, that sounds like a great idea. But I don't like this part, you need to change this part, and before you get started, you need to complete this checklist of 100 things then you can break ground. And during construction, good luck with building inspections and having government departments not delay your progress. I want more: OK, this is a great idea. What do we need to do collectively to make it happen? Maybe at the end of the day it comes down a recent history of poor civic leaders...

Complex projects involving mixed use/environmental remediation/extensive property acquisition/demolition/complex, partially public financing happen in other cities overnight? Where? The urban planning/architecture phase is seldom what is holding up any development. No, entire developments don't pop up overnight in other cities, but their progress is remarkably quicker. The whole thing may not pop up overnight, but part of it seems to. And since you asked for an example, I will give one I lived through. When I moved to Dallas in 2001, the Mavericks were playing basketball in Reunion Arena. The following basketball season, they moved into the new American Airlines Arena. At the time, it was located by an old train depot, away from anything else downtown. Basically there was nothing there. But as that first year of playing in the arena closed, the next year pieces of property were bought around the arena and development started. First was an apartment complex, then a restaurant, etc. By the time I left in July 2006, the last piece of property had been acuqired. TODAY, right now, there is now a large mixed use development complex with office buildings, rental units, condo/townhomes for sale, and the standard restaurants and bars surrounding the arena. For anyone who watches basketball (or hockey) regularly, you used to have an open view of the arena with the fountains in front. Now you look down this row of buildings. The majority of it was not there when I left 1.5 years ago. And yeah, it had been talked about for the 4 years prior to it actually happening, but during that time other smaller projects kept pushing forward and some noticable progress was being made. And really, what did it matter if Cuban/Hicks (Stars Owner) gained all of the property they were after? They still had a huge asset to build off of - the arena where the Mavs/Stars play. So who cares if they didn't get property x, y, z...they were still going to build on property a,b, c because there was potential there. Meanwhile, they continued to pursue x, y, z. At the end of the day, the entire complex was built in 7 years. And if you want to talk "pre-talk", Cuban bought the Mavs in January 2000. The entire concept of the American Airlines Arena and the development around it was his idea. The arena opened in November 2001. So in roughly 2 years time, he designed it, worked through the minutia while building parts of the master plan, and completed it 8 years after it started. Why does Wolstein have to wait out for Larry Flynt's Hustler strip club to start his project? The asset - river/location to downtown - is there to build around. How many press clippings did he say "the whole project depends on getting control of all the buildings". That's crap if you ask me. That's the difference, IMO, between Cleveland being the best city it is capable of being and it being what it is. Too many people are fighting through red tape, squabbling over details, and being narrow minded rather than simply taking the situation as its presented and saying "OK, here is where I want to go, and here is where I am. What can I do with what I have now? What do I need to do to get it done?" Why does it have to be all or nothing? Does Wolstein (or insert developer here) not feel that if they only build part of their proposed project that other like minded people won't capitialize on its success? I'm not saying it should be rushed into, but certainly it doesn't take this long to develop a great concept for development of that area - I'm sure those on this forum could knock it out in a day or so ;) And I don't think this is a case of "Cleveland negatisim in its purest form". Its looking at the high level situation and addressing something that needs to be corrected.

I get excited everytime this thread gets a bump, but invariably, I end up being disappointed because it seems as this is moving at an even slower pace than Cleveland's standard exciting new project slowness. I don't want "it may start" or "is expected to start" I want "will start". To me, this is one of the most important projects going in NE Ohio. The Warehouse district is great now, but neither it or anything else has rivaled what the flats was at one point. And while this proposal is completely different (for the better) it has the potential to generate the same level of activity as before, but with more substance. Why? It has the one thing nothing else ever will - the river. Not that the river itself is particularly exciting, but it provides Lake Erie boaters somewhere to go - it's an instant marina. The are tons of boaters in a 75 mile radius of Cleveland and they will travel just to go somewhere with their boat. And people who don't have a boat will go to places where they can watch boats/look at the water. And you get local people coming in and out of downtown more, they will spring the idea that next time downtown, they to go to the theater, or try that nice looking restaurant on West 6th, or pop into Tower City, etc. And in the middle of a yucky winter day, they'll go down to the flats to think about summer. Sometimes I think this is overlooked. But this thread started 4 years ago and we're still talking about the first building might start to be constructed soon. I guess I'm just frustrated with progress.

Speaking of the Rock Hall... Get ready to rock, Cleveland -- the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony is coming here in March 2009. Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson and Rock Hall officials made the announcement Wednesday afternoon during a press conference at City Hall. More induction ceremonies might be hosted by Cleveland in the future, too. The Rock Hall will have the option of bringing its big night here every three years, according to a statement issued by the hall. http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2007/12/cleveland_to_host_2009_rock_ha.html

Well, that's not really true. There's a substantial amount of industry in Solon - the city population triples during business hours. Solon has become an East side industry center; many of the major employers listed in a previous post. Plus there is easy access to other industrial parks on the East side with 422/271 being right there. Most people aren't driving downtown who live in Solon; in fact most people live in Solon because they work in Solon or on the East side and want to live in a suburban environment. I don't think the majority of people in Solon think they are immune to similar fates of other east side neighborhoods. Afterall, many moved to Solon from those places and they have taken notice of the environment around them. This is why this development is, or should, be important to those in Solon - it would be another reason to keep people there, improve property value, etc. Besides, just like "it can't happen in Solon" is short sighted, so is "it's inevitably going to happen in Solon" which is what you, and others, come off across as saying. Solon has notable differences compared to many other formerly prosperous east side suburbs which, while those differences don't make the city immune, they will make the downfall of Solon, should it happen, be along a different path.

That post just makes you sound bitter. The thing with this development is people live in places like Solon for 2 reasons. With 1 you're ok, but without either, you're in trouble. The first is a great school system. The second is lifestyle. Right now Solon has the school system. However, if you don't have kids, there is no reason to live there. This would be a reason to live there (and if it's not a reason you would live in a city, no need for some "why would I want to live in suburbia; suburbunites are the devil" remak) and keep people there after they have become empty nesters. Otherwise, yes, Solon could suffer the same fate as other East side suburbs like Euclid, Bedford, etc. Although I don't see it quite getting that far; the city is designed specifically against that sort of collapse. Besides, Auburn and Twinsburg are hardly Solon duplicates. Parts of Bainbridge and Aurora are, but they were developed at the same time as Solon...in conjunction with, not as a replacement. The bottom line is at some point, Solon is going to need to do something to keep it's middle and upper middle class living in Solon. This sort of development would be a step towards accomplishing that. So it could be good for Solon. I'm not sure it would be good for the region.

You seem to be avoiding this question - what is it the citizens of Solon want? Secondly, you're aware the citizens would need to vote to rezone the proposed location of this project, correct? So if in fact the citizens don't want this, it won't happen. For me, I am not sure how I feel about this project. I'm completely against site B as it would require an entire neighborhood of houses to be torn down and Bainbridge Rd isn't a good fit for a secondary road for access along with 91. Site A could be better - the shopping center it would replace needs to be updated. Medic and Dress Barn, the two biggest stores other than Giant Eagle, are just empty store fronts. Plus it would replace the Solon Park Apatments with newer apartments...those are rundown and have been problamatic for years now. But I'm not sure the region can really support another shopping center; its not like the region is expanding. I can't really get my arms around how this wouldn't simply be stealing business from Legacy, Beachwood, Aurora Farms, etc. Randall Park is already empty and run down, along with Southgate Mall. At what point does it become detrimental to be spreading things too thin? I think the traffic will work itself out and the development will be good for Solon. I would just rather see Stark develop downtown - which is in need of help - rather than Solon, which is doing just fine.

For me, this is all it boils down to. That's great that I get the label of "Conservative, just get a job" person. I won't apologize for wanting people to be responsible and to be accountable for their decisions in life. I'm more than happy to help, but I'd rather use my spare time and effort for contributing to society (outside of being a responsible person myself) by having a positive influence on my family and friends rather than a homeless person who may or may not take to any help I give him/her. And yes, of course I have had addiction/mental health directly affect my life. What's the 1st rule of rehab? You have to want help first. Some of these people are just going to continue to be homeless. Those that will turn it around will find their way out on there own - the programs exist in the city that will help you if you want to find them. Help is out there; I'm not going to beg you to take it.

Monday, December 10, 2007Jesse TinsleyPlain Dealer Reporter For two years, Daymon Mumford worked late into the night for a marketing firm at Cleveland-area night spots. He was always careful, but never afraid. ... www.cleveland.com

I forgot it was December 7th...which reminds me... The first time I really knew anything about Pearl Harbor was December 7th, 1991. It must have been a Saturday or I was home from school b/c everything on network channels during the middle of the day was about the 50th anniversary. I think Bush was dedicating a ship? Decommissioning a battleship or aircraft carrier I think. But in reading this article, while I was a little disapointed I didn't recognize the significance of today's date until I saw this thread, I at least feel good about myself that I have since educated myself on the events of that day, as well as what many great Americans did for the US in WWII and other meaningful military events in our countrie's history. I had actually "forgotten" about September 11th this year when the date rolled around until I was reminderd on the radio that morning...odd to think that will one day become like December 7th...just another day for most people.

I also loved Transformers and Go-Bots. And no GI Joe mention? I didn't like He-Man much, but I know it was popular too. I liked the Transformer movie though. Other random show I like, mostly b/c of the theme song - The Great American Hero.

Hicksville, OH anyone? There is also a city in Texas that too on the name of a company...like a cable or electirc company I think. I can't seem to find it through. And this just happened recently.

That was a great article. Presented long term solutions rather than temporary fixes (which is what I believe giving money to panhandlers is, a temporary fix and does nothing to solve the problem).

I generally have a republican viewpoint but have been greatly disappointed with the republican party locally, voting democrat in recent elections.

Chnaging the subject slightly, does anyone know how Steelyard is doing overall? I thought it had been doing well, but was a little surprised when I was there over the weekend. I was there, eating at IHOP, Friday morning. The previous night on the news were numerous stories about Black Friday and how crowded outlet malls were and how people were camping out in front of Best Buy in Macedonia for stuff. At 10 AM Friday morning, the Best Buy parking lot at SYC was about half full. The shopping center in general was certainly not empty, but not nearly as crowded as I would have expected considering what day it was. Also, IHOP apparently is changing its menu for the worse - they got rid of the Big Country and some other menus items, no a la cart was another. Anyway, I was disappointed.