Equillibrius

I like it. In a way it tones down the "Jenga" look of the tower.

The only thing I would change to the tower's design is the randomly-placed balconies. Besides that, I like the look of the building. Placing the hotel in the bridge portion is a really interesting concept, too.

I like the bridge too. The massing (at least the upper part) looks similar to another upcoming building designed by NBBJ, the Tencent Headquarters in Shenzen, China:

^ Isn't Whiskey Island/Wendy Park mostly a former dredge landfill as well? It didn't exist 100 years ago.

The Metroparks seems to be the only organization that is actually putting an emphasis on public opinion and input regarding their lakefront parcels, rather than doing what developers and shareholders tell them. Edgewater, E. 55th Marina, Gordon Park, Euclid Beach/Villa Angela will be the real winners in stirring more public interest in lakefront redevelopment, I think.

If you have a PC/Mac with Google Earth (I don't think the mobile versions have this feature) there's an option that allows you to see past imagery. Look for the icon that looks like a clock with a green arrow running counterclockwise over it, and it will bring up a slider that points to different dates. Cleveland's only goes back to 1994, but even in as little as 20 years there have been quite a few changes. Most depressing is the amount of houses that have been demolished in the east side neighborhoods.

Makes sense. The massing and elevation diagram from the Metroparks' presentation (PDF file: http://clevelandmetroparks.org/Uploads/Public/Documents/LakefrontPlanning/LakefrontPublicMeetingsPresentation.pdf) makes it more clearer.

$4 million seems pretty low for a citywide signal upgrade. The average cost to install a signal system ranges anywhere from $100,000 (basic 4-way with no turn lanes) and up. Unless it's only counting signals that aren't part of any street improvement plan. For example they're about to break ground on a reconstruction project on Lorain Avenue from West 117th to West 150th, which includes replacing all the span wire signals with mast arms.

I'm a little puzzled at the bridge to the West 76th tunnel as well. It would be completely redundant since the pedestrian path that connects with the tunnel ends right where the new beach house is planned to go. Anyway, these plans look pretty good for being only preliminary. One change I would personally make is put the beach house a little further to the north, and have the deck (I assume that's what the big red circle is going to be) partially over the water. I too hope this project emphasizes quality in the construction. If anything, it could be the catalyst that spurs public interest in redeveloping the rest of Cleveland's lakefront.

Most likely repurposed into a multi-use building with arcades, concessions, etc. Unfortunately, Cleveland (well, the USA in general) was never quite as progressive when it came to structures that seemingly were of no more use. After the end of WWII the majority of homes had indoor plumbing, rendering bath houses like Edgewater's obsolete. The only thing most people wanted to see in that building was a wrecking ball. :(

One thing I've wondered about is why amusement/pleasure piers never really caught on in the Great Lakes as they have on the coasts and other parts of the world. Edgewater would have been a great spot for one, especially if it looked like my favorite, the South Parade Pier in Portsmouth, England: http://southparadepier.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/south-parade-pier-1950s.jpg Edit: On the other hand, if built in the early 20th century it probably would have suffered the same fate as the bath house.

^ Merwin's Wharf? I would love to see a similar restaurant built somewhere close to the fishing pier, or even incorporated into it, with a nice open air dining patio facing the lake.

For comparison, here is the old bathhouse, built in 1914... Does any of the infrastructure for this building still exist? Or is it all pretty much gone? I'd love to know where exactly it stood (the beach has grown 50 feet or so northward in the past hundred years, so the footprint is nowhere near the water as it was in the photo). It was an interesting building, it reminds me of something that would be in Mexico, or SoCal at the very least. :-)

^ The Saigon Centre looks about what I imagine nuCLEus would look like--mostly for the short podium lined with stores.

Who knows? Maybe he plans on building a 675' high residential tower? I kid, of course. We're not at level of demand for apartments just yet. :) EDIT: Though I agree you'd have to shoot for third tallest very specifically since there is only about a 60 to 70 feet difference between 200PS and TT.

The latest article says the tallest tower will be 500 feet at 30 stories? That would put it just shy of Erieview. Even assuming for 14 feet per story, 30 only comes out to 420 feet.

I think a "NYC style monumental arch" would be something like the Washington Square Arch: ...which itself was based on the Arc de Triomphe in Paris, which was based on the Arch of Titus in Rome. :lol:

^ There looks to be a new tower-- about 3/4ths the height of the tallest one-- in the new massing on the Cleveland.com article. Could that be the hotel? I'm erring on the side of optimism as well with each new development regarding this project. While quite large, it definitely isn't as pie in the sky as Pesht was.

Gah, I forgot about the The 9's Heinen's being so close by. :-o Still, it's rather optimistic of Stark to plan such a large storefront, because there's not much else, retail-wise, you can put in such a large space. Besides a Planet Fitness (yuck). Speaking of Target, they've been rolling out a "micro" format store called TargetExpress, which range from 12,000 to 20,000 square feet. From what I've read on them, they seem to be geared more towards a general merchandise, drug store format (à la CVS or Walgreens), rather than only groceries.

Remember that the sheer amount of parking spaces is not only for the Stark development, but for The Q/Progressive Field as well. The garage that's currently there is the go-to parking area for sporting/concert events. I'm hazarding a guess that Stark wants a grocery store in that 20,000-sf space? A bit tight for a big full-service grocer, but doable.

Ah, dreams must give way to architectural realities. :) And I just checked the prices on some of those Liberty Place apartments. Ouch.

A few years ago when 200 Public Square was having trouble finding tenants after BP left, it would have been a good opportunity to convert the tower into residences. The setbacks towards the top would have made some interesting penthouses and balconies. Probably not the very top where the HVAC/elevator equipment is kept, but it looks like at least two floors at the bottom of the "cap" are occupiable...

Thanks for that KJP. Definitely a lot of variances, especially between the 1717 and the 668; similar number of units but vastly different heights.

Considering he wants to cram retail, offices, public parking and 500 apartments in that parcel, it would definitely have to be vertical. For speculation's sake, how tall would a 500 unit residential building be, assuming it would be about half the size of the parcel (like the massings suggest) and all of the units are the size of an average downtown apartment?

A buddy of mine works at the Marc's in Kamms Corners. In spite of the nabe's suburban nature, he says the store gets a lot of walk-up customers from the surrounding homes, and as such the granny carts they sell are a popular item. This Heinen's may want to consider selling carts of their own.