Hts121

I'd put the chances of the lots behind the Market being filled at close to 0%

About halfway through 'Chamber of Secrets' with my 5 year old. This is our thing now at bedtime. We read the 1st book and then watched that movie. He loved both so we moved on to the second book. I will let him watch that movie too. Not so sure I will let him watch the 3rd movie when/if we get there...... although I will say that nothing seems to scare that kid.

And the Industrial Valley. From Downtown, Cleveland really only stretches East and West. To the north is all water and to the south is the Industrial Valley. Actually, there is a big industrial zone to the East as well (going out towards E55th). Cincy has some similar issues to the East (due to flood zone?) where it looks rural just a few miles outside of downtown Cincy.

CO - I don't see why the Lakefront should be excluded for Cleveland. The Port, the RRHOF, the GLSC and CBS are all "downtown" even if there is no residential there (yet) and its inclusion would consequently cause the density numbers to drop. If you are going to include the FEB, than the Lakefront has to be included as well. JMO.

I drove through OTR a few months back. I didn't get a "downtown" feeling at all. It is a bordering neighborhood, like Ohio City, Asiatown, Tremont and several of the comparables around Columbus. Whether Cincy folks call it "downtown" due to the geography or just routine habit is irrelevant for the purposes of this thread IMO. I'm sure there are many suburbanites in Cleveland who would refer to the above neighborhoods as "Downtown"........ some might even refer to University Circle and Midtown as Downtown given the geography. I know several out of town guests have asked if we were "downtown" while driving through University Circle, but that is understandable because it does have somewhat of a downtown feel with the taller buildings and bustling activity.

The area I described on the previous page is probably a little north of 1 square mile My "Downtown Cleveland" has several neighborhoods as well. The Flats, the Warehouse District, Gateway, Playhouse Square, the financial district to name a few.

Yeah of course its possible. But Market Square is a 1.6 mile walk from the closest downtown resident ..... According to your boundaries (which are more expansive than mine). But if you include Stonebridge as downtown (and I do think there is a plausible argument for that - much like OTR and Cincy's CBD - even though I disagree), MS is much closer than 1.6 miles. Also, just to be clear for those unfamiliar, the 1.6 miles is certainly not "as the crow flies"

To me, "downtown" (again.... just a name) is bordered as follows: North - Lake Erie West - Cuyahoga River South - The Innerbelt bridge East - Playhouse Square (i.e. E 17th) and probably narrowing to E 12th as you go north I don't include the West Bank, CSU, or Asiatown. The term "downtown" is synonymous with CBD in my book.

Cleveland's "downtown" is our CBD..... nobody would refer to OC and Tremont as downtown. But for the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't matter. It's just a name. I was just curious what the population would be if we used the adjacent neighborhoods most similar to OTR.

Question for the census geeks (I mean that affectionately ;))....... what is 'downtown' cleveland's population when you add in the surrounding neighborhoods (Ohio City, Tremont, Asiatown, etc)?

If you are at #1, you HAVE to take Davis. However, I am leaning towards hoping we don't have the #1 for that reason. He is a freak, but raw. More raw than DHoward was coming into the league and to call him 'slim' would be an understatement. But he does have the frame to fill out a little bit. Keep in mind that he grew something like 8 inches his last year or two in HS so he is still maturing. He has to be the #1 pick because he completely changes the game with his off the ball defense. Nobody will want to penetrate on a team with Davis in the middle. I would worry, though, about him getting pushed around in the post. The point of all this is that he won't be ready to contribute to his full potential until 2-3 years. It is a good thing we are guaranteed a top 6 pick because the general consensus is that the top tier of this draft has 6 players: Anthony Davis - PF/C - Kentucky Michael Kidd-Gilchrist - SF - Kentucky Bradley Beal - SG - Florida Thomas Robinson - PF - Kansas Harrison Barnes - SF - UNC Andre Drummond - C - UConn Out of that group, my two are MKG and Beal. MKG compares favorably to Gerald Wallace, but probably with better basketball skills and a higher ceiling. Plays with the same intensity and reckless abandon. He would start day 1 for us at SF. I like Beal's potential more though. He is a bit short (I think he will measure 6'4 with shoes) but he has long arms and is solidly built. Good shooting touch and a good penetrator. Think of a cross between Ray Allen and Dwayne Wade....... of course, he has a LONG way to go to reach the level of either of those guys, but I see the potential. The Cavs have been rumored for a long time to have an affection for Barnes. I hope not. He is still riding the hype wave coming out of HS. Sorry.... but you can't impress me too much dominating Iowa HS hoops. He has ideal size and is a great shooter, but I don't see any urgency or passion in his game. He is a spot up shooter but could be soooooo much more if he had just a little itty bit of 'badboy' in him. Robinson is solid but he is a 4 with no alternate positions. It wouldn't make sense to pick him after we just invested a top 5 pick in TT. Drummond was previously ranked higher than Davis but he just didn't dominate in conference play the way he did against the mid-majors. Freak athlete with great size, but his lack of production was troubling.

I don't really know much (or anything) about 3CDC, but we do have among others.... Downtown Cleveland Alliance Inc. Midtown Inc. University Circle Inc. I imagine Midtown Inc is most akin to 3CDC. DCA probably not so much. UCI is a different beast...... it literally runs UC, right down to a private/public police force, and owns a ton of land. Just curious, but how does 3CDC change the game on the points I raised?

Looks like OTR is growing much faster than Downtown. I would assume that is because of lower rents and available space. I agree with Confiteodeo that it is not as much demand, but supply, which will frustrate growth in the downtowns of the 3C's. New condo construction is almost out of the question anywhere. So it is rentals which will sput growth. Here in Cleveland, our rental occupancy rates are off the charts good....... but the rents are not high enough per SF to justify an influx of new construction. Thus, we have to wait for older buildings to be eligible for re-use and then wait for the tax credits to come through which would make the conversion profitable. That said, we do have a new residential project in University Circle which will have a rental rate north of $2/sf..... which seems to be the point at which new construction can get financing. If that project rents out as quickly as our most recents projects involving adaptive re-use and a waiting list ensues (like those other projects), then watch out..... the dominoes will fall and we could potentially see a boom in construction and a

Not at all (I honestly don't know). But, does the thread title indicate anything about the UK, France, Japan, Italy, Spain, China, etc? I was under the impression that the "US" in the title was indicating "United States"..... and when I ask whether "we" are still in a recession, I mean the United States So sensitive. Let's face it, YOU get offended either way. Your not sure? The point that I was trying to make was, is the US really decoupled from the rest of the world. I personally think we are not and that is why I post information from Europe and Asia. You like to say things like don't be so sensitive, this thread is doom and gloom, etc. These types of statements are used to deflect from the real conversation and add no value to the thread. If you have real economic data that you want to use to support an opinion (not just "I honestly don't know") than please make this thread more valuable with that knowledge. I have always said its great to see different data points and different points of view. I have provided many posts in this thread which have refuted certain points in your narrative. And I'm not trying to 'deflect' or whatever you want to call it..... I just think the thread title should be changed, especially given the way your narrative has developed into a much wider range over time. I would say as many as half of your most recent posts have involved foreign economies (or the world economy as a whole).

Not at all (I honestly don't know). But, does the thread title indicate anything about the UK, France, Japan, Italy, Spain, China, etc? I was under the impression that the "US" in the title was indicating "United States"..... and when I ask whether "we" are still in a recession, I mean the United States So sensitive. Let's face it, YOU get offended either way.

Is the title of this thread still appropriate? Just technically speaking, are we still in a recession? Also, it seems the thread has evolved into more of a general world economy discussion (yes.... I realize how everything is connected). Allow me to make a few modest suggestions: "U.S. and World Economy: News and Discussion" "Economic Developments and how they affect the U.S. Economy" Or for something more eye-catching and sensational..... "The Sky is Falling and There Isn't Sh!t you can do about it!" "The Glass is Half Empty" "The Doom and Gloom Depot" Or perhaps something more accurately descriptive: "The Spin Zone"

Eh..... I can't agree with that. Bluestone is nice and fits where it is across Mayfield on the old JCC lot. But the Zaremba project in the northeaster corner is an abomination IMHO. It has no interaction with Mayfield. Really, it has no interaction with the Circle either. It is an enclave within an enclave. The other one I suspect you are thinking about is the conversion of the office building next to the old Baker's Square..... while I am glad it found a re-use, the reviews I have heard have not been good in terms of the job they did converting the building into condos. Whatever happens, you can count on Severance Circle remaining Severance "Circle". The infrastructure won't change significantly. I suspect a few stores will close when or shortly after Walmart closes because they may feed off their customer base (i.e. Marshal's), but Home Depot and several others will remain. The theatre will remain. The west side of the Circle probably won't see much change either. That isn't to say that residential development won't continue..... just not inside the Circle.

If you plan to get cable tv, you might as well bundle internet with your tv and phone. It may not be the cheapest, but I'm satisfied with our Time Warner packeage.

http://universityloftsapartments.com/ http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Ohio/Cleveland/1900-Euclid-Lofts/26955/

It's not unthinkable that Cleveland would support a 4th professional team better than Cincy would a 3rd or Columbus would a 2nd team (technically CBus already has 2 although I suppose MLS is not quite of the same stature). I say that because we don't have a major college draw for sports. At least nothing like OSU football/basketball or UC/Xavier basketball or even UC football. I would also imagine that TV market size has more to do with it than MSA and Cleveland's is not that much smaller than the Cincy and CBus markets combined - http://www.sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-tv-market-sizes-dma.html

^I haven't heard of that 'deal'..... source? ^^Well.... it was Columbus' Mayor who raised the issue. I think it is worthy of at least a mention in the appropriate thread (here). I agree it wouldn't be high on the NBA's wish list for a number of reasons, including proximity to the Cavs. However, that proximity wouldn't be too far off Chicago/Milwaukee, GS/Sacramento, NY/Brooklyn/Philadelphia/DC, Charlotte/Atlanta, Portland/Seattle (to name a few off the top of my head). The Cavs currently have the widest market of any of our franchises with no team in Pittsburgh, Buffalo or Cincy. It's not unthinkable, but not likely. I guess I'm just wondering why Coleman is even bothering to make a play. FWIW, I read that Columbus' metro is bigger than the metros for 7 NBA franchises...... who, without looking it up, I would guess to be Sacramento, Milwaukee, San Antonio, Memphis, Oklahoma City, Indianapolis, and Portland? Maybe Charlotte (and not one of those listed prior)?

^^I get it..... but if those buildings still existed, some of them would look like the Stanley Block and, in typical Cleveland fashion, we would hear complaints about how unimpressive our skyline is.

So Mayor Coleman wants an NBA team in Columbus? I thought the Blue Jackets were having trouble with attendance. How could adding another winter sport possibly be a good idea? That's one of the major reasons Cleveland doesn't have an NHL team anymore and Pittsburgh doesn't have an NBA team. The seasons for those two sports nearly overlap. But, I suppose if the goal is simply to get another professional sports franchise, it's not likely the City would get an NFL team or an MLB team due to teams in each of those sports being in Cleveland and Cincy, not to mention there is no way OSU would go for an NFL team sharing in its weekend festivities during the Fall.

This thread is going to be ugly. The streetcars certainly do look sexier than the modern day RTA busses and people certainly wore their "Sunday clothes" more often back then. But, on the other hand, what I see in those pictures looks like a lot of crowds outside waiting for public transportation, which isn't that much different than what we have today. Point being..... same use, just different times.