Hts121

You are muddling two different issues here. 1. Contract greivances (i.e. the employer is not adhering to the contract) are commonly brought to final resolution through binding arbitration. It saves time and money for all involved, because the alternative would be filing a lawsuit for breach of contract. The neutral third party arbitrator is selected to determine whether the contract was violated and what the appropriate remedy would be for any such violation. The arbitrator is confined to the terms of the agreement, and may not 'dispense his/her own brand of industrial justice.' However, labor law has always included the concept of past practice.... meaning, the agreement between the parties does not just include the written words, but also mutually agreed upon, consistently applied practices over the years. SB5 limits the authority of these arbitrators to the strict written word of the contract and prohibits them from enforcing past practice. 2. Arbitration is also used for resolving impasse in negotiations for police and fire. Obviously, we can't have police and fire holding strikes (see Robocop) and we can't have the employer unilaterally imposing terms and conditions..... so the system has been to bring in a mutually selected third party neutral, who examines the last, best offer from each side on each issue and must pick between the two. This person is commonly referred to as a conciliator and does not have discretion to find a 'middle ground'. He/she must pick between the City's offer and the union's offer on each issue submitted. Once his/her award is issued, the parties are bound and the contract is finalized. SB5 would eliminate this process and instead submit the disputes to the legislative body for final resolution.

^^What board? You mean city council? Unless you advocate the ability of political subdivisions to unilaterally breach contracts, then you just have to accept that they are bound by those terms for the duration of the contract. Most CBA's are either 2 or 3 years in duration..... but lately, due to uncertainty with the recession, we are seeing more and more 1 year contracts and/or reopener clauses on issues such as wages and health care.

We have this thing in Cleveland Heights called local elections. The taxpayers would vote them out.

Mine comment was just a opinion two. <see avatar.

^^It would take awhile to list all the provisions which are highly objectionable. It is a 300 page bill which was.... ummmmmm..... rammed, crammed, jammed, bammed, whammed down our f-in throats. I covered many of my concerns in the Kasich thread if you want to go back and review. A few samples would be: - I think if the people of Cleveland Heights want to pick up >85% of the health care costs for their cops, firefighters and teachers, it really is none of the State's business - I think if the people of Cleveland Heights want to enter into a mutually agreed upon dispute resolution procedure with their cops, firefighters, and teachers (leaving the legislative body out of that messy battle), it really is none of the State's business. - Same goes for pension pick-up, sick leave, vacation time, or any other provision where the folks at the Statehouse in Columbus desire to impose their big government infinite wisdom on the people of the various local home rule communities of this State. - I think having the legislative body of the community resolve contract impasses by selecting between last, best offers from each side is awful policy and will lead to corruption - I don't think that 'neutrals' (SERB, arbitrators, conciliators, fact-finders) should be, for lack of a better term, neutered in the manner the drafters of SB5 would like them to be. - I don't think that past practice (a universal concept in labor relations) should be eliminated as a subject of possible union greivances. - I think that members of a police and fire department, especially if the City has no objection, should be free to associate among the non-management level ranks. This is especially true in the fire service where solidarity within the fire house is key to harmony - I don't think the State should eliminate the provision of Ch. 4117 which states that the chapter's goal is to promote orderly and constructive relationships between public employers and their employees. The reason you are not following any concern of mine in paragraph 1 is because I did not lay one out. But the police and fire unions will object to this change because chronnyism and corruption have a long history in para-military organizations which base pay, rank, etc. on subjective opinion of 'merit.' This was a big driving force for the passage of the constitutional provision I mentioned above.

For police and fire, the "merit" language in the new law is being applied to layoffs and RIFs, not pay raises. At present, the state law is first in, first out for layoffs. Meaning, the City must lay off the least senoir member of each rank first and must recall the most senoir member of each rank if recalls are made. This would have led to concerns for sure, probably just like injecting the notion of "merit" as a factor for determining teachers salaries. But it would have hardly been a deal breaker. That is the thing that I think is totally lost on too many people. The unions were ready, willing and able to sit down and make concessions. There are several provisions of RC Ch. 4117 which certainly can and should be revised and improved. SB5 does indeed make some common sense changes. Nobody disputes that. But Kasich and his chronies from southern Ohio (see Rep Jones) had no such interest in compromise. The last thing they wanted was a handshake with the unions. They wrote the bill the way they wanted to write the bill, without any input from the unions, the democrats in the GA, or the clear majority of Ohio voters. Its all a waste of time anyways. They stepped too far. If the unions lose at the ballot, they will win in the courts..... at least on the most objectionable provisions.

Dear Reality Check: You may not want to hear it, but Breuer Tower is not sufficient for the County's needs. And, yes, small floor plates are a big (though not only) reason for that. Signed, Double-dose of Reality

There is a difference.... a big difference.... in considering 'merit' as a factor for pay raises and 'merit-based' pay raises. Not so sure about the teaching profession, but this was already certainly part of the equation of cops and firefighters, who are paid largely based on rank. Rank is determined through promotional examination. Such examinations are required by the Ohio Constitution to be open and competitive. Senoirity points are added on to the final score in some communities but are not the sole determining factor as gottaplan incorrectly suggested. Any system, agreement, etc. which (notwithstanding SB5) provides that raises be based on "simple seniority" is violative of the Ohio Constitution and always has been. It is talking points run amuck which has led to this confusion. Do you think when Cleveland Heights needs a new police chief, they are required to just promote the most senior member from the lower ranks?

You think SB5 requires merit based raises? You think the current law requires raises based solely on senoirity? Seems you are stuck on the misinformation highway.

States can totally do away and privatize any public service they want. So the connection is most certainly there, even if you can't see it. As a matter of fact, SB5 has an on point provision explicitly making that a management right. I suggest you read the bill before further delving into this conversation. Op-eds from the WSJ are only going to provide you with the info you want to read. Based on your second paragraph, I guess you are appropriately placed in the crowd who thinks that cops, firfighters, and teachers are paid too much. And you can't compare public school teacher comp with their private school counterparts. Private school teachers always will be paid less. If you drop public school pay, private school pay would simply mirror that reduction. I don't know who you are using to compare cops and firefighters to in the private sector.

I think there are many cities, particularly in the rust belt, that must shrink first in order to grow. I also think that people pay too much attention to raw population numbers. Cleveland, for instance, was built to be a type of city it will likely never be again. That's not to say that it can't be better. It just won't have neighborhood upon neighborhood of blue collar families. The housing stock in so many neighborhoods reflects that long lost past and frustrates growth at present.

And as we are seeing in Ohio and Wisconsin, these workers were given their rights to collectively bargain by the states, which are now taking them away. I would like to see Ford try to do that. I simply don't get it this attitude though. It wasn't but a few years ago that the popular consensus was that firefighters, cops, and teachers weren't getting paid enough. Now, they are the crux of our local budgetary woes.... allegedly. And anyone who even tries to suggest that the current bargaining system favors the employees certainly has never actively participated in the process (ie, at the bargaining table). If what they say is true, then all these civil servants would be getting paid a helluva lot more than they do. The current contracts would not be set with 0% wage increases, concessions in manpower, and greater cost sharing in health care, among many, many other terms more favorable to the employ. But I guarantee you won't read that in the WSJ.

Sorry to stray a bit off topic, but this is the first I've heard of 200 PS being renamed the Huntington Building. I like it, but please, please no signage.

Sorry.... didn't realize the question was directed at me. I thought it was rhetorical. If you really need an answer, then yes.... that appears to me to be an op-ed. I'm sure you could've have done some research on your own to figure out what is and what is not an op-ed. Nevertheless, glad I could be of some help.

Go ahead and show me where you gave the same response to the barrage of op-eds littering the Obama thread for the past 2 years.

Depends on what you mean, 327. I saw a bunch of frat looking boys hanging off the balconies of 2nd floor rooftop bars on Trade St. cat-calling every girl on the street and talking sh!t with some passerbys. I saw a drunk soccer dad (there was a tournament this weekend) at the hotel bar 'harrassing' (I suppose) a bunch of girls half his age. I saw two 15-16 year olds fighting. I saw a redneck pissing at one of the light rail stops. There were a bunch of daytime drunks, dressed up in silly costumes, sprinting through the streets during the day for some pub crawl contest. But for the most part, everybody was having a good time.

Hoot, let me know when it is that every 5-7 years and I will meet up with you for a game... until then, I would prefer to waste my money on the other inept teams in this town

Don't get into the chicken and the egg debate with Dolan. I think he has shown an unwillingess to compromise on that front. Best we can hope for is to catch lightning in a bottle like we did in a BIG way in the 90's and to a lesser extent what you saw with the Tribe in 07 and the Reds last year. But sustaining that success is nearly impossible. The system is f'd. I don't think that Dolan should be our owner, but I don't blame him either.

A google search will confirm that it is not a total non-issue in Clt. But their mere presence, irregardless of disturbances, seems to be less of an issue to the locals down there. I did see a few fights.... nothing I would not expect to see in an entertainment district crowded with 20 and 30 somethings drunks. As far as behavoir, yes..... it appeared to be the same from what I could tell. Then again, I always seem to manage to avoid the utter horrors others somehow always do in the WHD with "they". Luck of the Irish I suppose. The one noticeable difference, as mentioned above, is that "they" were always on the move.... so you weren't forced to (gasp) walk through a crowd of "they" to get where you were going. I don't know how the cops managed that, because I posted up on a bench by myself with my hood up for about 20 minutes at around 1am and nobody said anything to me

I agree. Sadly, the Saturday game was nationally broadcast and I watched an inning from my hotel room. I've never seen the Jake that empty. Sure, the crappy weather had something to do with it, but I think it has a lot more to do with Indians fans being fed up with Dolan and MLB. I know the lack of parity has made me lose my love for the game. I'm pure, unadulterated bandwagon dude when it comes to the Tribe now. Let me know when they are good again and I will break out the #15 jersey

Things are starting to look down for the draft. Sully says he is staying (not that I wanted him, but he would have given depth to the top end) and now it appears Barnes is going back to UNC. Keep your fingers crossed that both Irving and Williams declare. I have to think that Irving will as it would be a risk going back to Duke IMO. If he suffers another season ending injury next year, he would surely not go #1.... like wil probably will this year. Also, Duke has Austin Rivers (Doc's son and hands down best player in HS) coming in next year. He is a PG and it would be a battle between him and Kyrie to see who deserves the ball more

Almost all the Uptown cops were on foot. I saw plenty of cops and very few cop cars. This might be the type of order maintenance policing which was so effectively implemented in NYC under Guiliani

One of my sisters got married in Charlotte this past weekend and I stayed at the Holiday Inn in Uptown (Charlotte's CBD). That place is really, really picking up some steam. Just a few years back, it was nothing to write home about. Not a lot of retail, but tons of residences and night life. N College and Trade streets are as lively as the WHD on the weekends. The CBD is smaller than Cleveland's.... more akin to Cincy's with the narrow streets and really doesn't stretch more than a few blocks. But the bars/clubs are all packed and people are really genuinely excited about it. But I did notice that our oft-cited complaint of underage kids on the streets of the entertainment district is hardly unique to Cleveland. Charlotte built light rail that runs from the south and splits a really good neighborhood and a fairly bad neighborhood. The kids are taking the light rail downtown and strolling around the streets at night in small packs. On Friday night, I'd say that half (if not more) of the pedestrians I saw were ummmmmmm...... "they" (is that the term I am supposed to use?). And these weren't the southern church going types. They were the dirty south, bout it bout it, gold teeth types. But it just didn't seem to bother people as much down there as it does here. I refuse to believe those yuppies from Clt are tougher than us Cleveland folks, so I tried to observe the differences to see how Uptown keeps gaining such tremendous momentum while this is still going on. They certainly did not have to close off any streets or line them with cop cars. First, the City has law enforcement types down there on nearly every corner with bright, neon yellow vests on...... very visible and constantly observing the happenings on the street. Second, "they" were never standing still...... "they" kept moving, leading me to believe that if "they" had just stopped at a corner and loitered, they would have been shuffled off by the cops. And lastly, although there were numerous groups of "they" down there, I don't believe I saw a group larger than 7 or so (but I'm not sure how you could restrict that). "They" were still out and about on Saturday, but not quite as many as Friday night. People really didn't seem to care either way. It was hopping on both nights. Oh yeah, panhandlers a plenty too. I got the long winded "just got out of jail.... need a bus ticket.... trying to turn my life around" woe is me schtick from one of them, so they can't be that much different than here. Yet, everyone I interacted with there (from the Charlotte locals to the folks from surrounding communities..... from DJ's to Bankers) kept talking Uptown, Uptown, Uptown, Uptown....... I came away concluding that our biggest (albeit hardly our only) issue boils down to local perception and the negativity we spawn. I do believe that the few obeservations I made above though could be implemented here with good results, but as long as "they" can be seen, I'm not sure it will make that big of a difference in the minds of our Negative Neds. All that said, this momentum and "it" factor (if you will) has not stopped that new residential high rise in Uptown from only having 5 or 6 lights on at night.

Not just that, but in terms of quality, The Cincinnatian and The Westin in downtown Cincy beat anything we have in our Downtown IMHO.

Yes.... and hopefully it was limited to LI's woodframe stock