Hts121

I like the idea of using JT as the red zone QB. Of course, if it was up to me, he'd be the full time QB

I asked some 'old-timers' about the pre-Justice Center history. The police HQ and jails were located at 21st & Payne. There was also an arraignment room and four criminal courtrooms in that complex. The judges would rotate every 3 months between that and the civil courts in the old county courthouse. Several other cities do maintain separate jails and use holding cells in the courthouse to hold the inmates during court proceedings while not in court.

That's my concern. IMO, there is more potential for voters who otherwise support legalization to vote against this measure due to the way it is structured and the hit-job ads on that haven't even really began. Of course, it is not out of the question that the opposite happens and it gains support the more people are educated on the logic behind and rationale for legalization. I'm fairly certain I am voting in favor of it even thought I don't like the way it is structured. I just want to move the goalposts on this issue. Make it legal and then we can revisit the law at a subsequent election if we don't like the way it is structured. I'm concerned that failure at this juncture would frustrate future efforts. I'm disappointed they didn't wait for 2016. With it structured like it is and putting it on the ballot in an election which is something less than mid-term, the deck is stacked against it.

Non-violent offenders, which would probably make up a good portion of the minor (not misdemeanor) jail terms, are now held at Euclid's jail subject to space constraints. Like I said above, I would assume that a majority of the inmates at County jail are those defendants who can not afford or are denied bail.

Why would we want to "call" the 1990's? Wasn't that when crime hit its peak? ^I agree. I think step one is to realize there is no quick fix and not to overextend the City's resources looking for a quick return. The City (and County) needs to play the long-game here. However long it took the inner city to rot, it will take twice as long to repair. Increasing the tax base is critical. No tax base, no money. No money, no resources. No resources, no possible fixes.

I'd guess that most people in the jails are actually being held awaiting trial. Most people who are convicted in county court and sentenced to jail time go to a state prison. So it is not simply a matter of bailiffs (actually, it is the Sheriff Deputies) driving convicted persons to jail. They have to escort the defendants to and from arraignments, plea hearings, pretrials, suppression hearings, trials, sentencings, etc. In the current JC, they do all that through a closed circuit system, straight from the jail into the courtroom. I would also disagree with the idea that jails don't add foot traffic. A lot of people generating foot traffic outside of the JC are those people going to visit family members and friends who are currently in jail or lawyers going to visit their clients for case prep.

I think residents have plenty of reason to be upset. With the past two decades of crime, the city should put every dollar and resource to safety. 100% aggressive focus on it. Instead they are celebrating just about everything else and putting a ton towards marketing to outsiders, which is great and all...but not sustainable in the long run if people are getting guns pointed in their face Obviously, there has been a recent spike in crime, but isn't it true that the past two decades have actually seen a decrease in crime?

^McCown, Benjamin, Crowell

How does our metro area compare to other metro areas?

I'm fine with a bar or restaurant. I was having trouble with the idea of what kind of retail model would fit on the river. If we were talking about a lot between Phase 2 and the Aloft, then the dynamics would be different.

That's odd. I seem to remember walking up stairs. But, then again, my memory of those nights might be 'impaired'

^Look for any map that shows concentrated areas of poverty

I seem to remember there being a Panini's (on an upper floor) and a BW3, as well.

Good write up RnR. I was also at the RRHOF on opening day and for the concert at Municipal Stadium.

Volunteering your time is the most effective impact most of us can have. If you are a professional, perhaps your services are needed but can't be afforded at normal rates. Recognizing that a lot of the current criminals are beyond reach, it is most effective in my opinion to try to change the future for the youth. Volunteer to coach a youth sports team, or to be a 'big brother', or something like that. Be a role model and show these kids there are other paths than what they see glorified in the streets. Keep things local. Keep your money local. Keep your volunteer time local. Most importantly, have hope and express hope. For a lot of these kids, that is exactly what is lacking.

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet on here that moving the JC out of this location might devalue the surface lots in the WHD..... at least as it pertains to their value as surface lots. After the garage was torn down on Ontario to make room for the MM and a portion of the Huntington garage was dedicated for the Hilton, the value of those lots as lots probably went up. Weren't those lots created in the first place to serve the JC?

I like it. Reminds me a bit of that bridge in Boston, on a smaller scale of course. If Lakefront development really takes off, I actually wouldn't mind seeing a twin built

Does anyone know whether the JC was built on a slab or if they drilled down to bedrock? If the latter, would that make the site more economically feasible for a new tower? They would have to drill the holes again, right?

I'd think it is necessary to keep the jails and the criminal division of the courts in same complex

^Interesting. I would be in favor of a good gutting of the building, especially the tower. Refitting the jail and police HQs would be the major challenge I would think. ^^Correct, but the entire system would be much, much more efficient if they did not. There should be separate divisions. Civil matters languish at Cuyahoga county because the criminal stuff takes precedence, and civil trials are constantly interrupted and delayed for sentencings, PVs, etc. Separating the dockets would be a smart reform for the betterment of the county and this move would be the perfect time to do that. Of course, many judges would be opposed because they all want to their campaign slogan to read "tough on crime"

^I think you need the police HQ and City jail on the same site, just like you need county jail and Sheriff on the same site. Fire HQ is on the outskirts of downtown. No reason police can't in the same area. All they do is drive into the basement anyways. ^^If I read above correctly, the demolition is not due to some perceived aesthetic flaws (which this board certainly believes to exist), but rather due to structural issues.

Wow. I had heard some rumblings, but never thought this day would actually come. I once heard that the County spent more money to build the JC than was spent building the Sears Tower. I am trying to think of all that the JC houses. I believe it has all of the following: the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas general division for both criminal and civil, the Cuyahoga County Clerk of Courts, the Cuyahoga County Jail and Sheriff's office, Cleveland Municipal Court and its Clerk of Courts, Cleveland Police HQ, and the city jail. My personal ideal outcome would be to split the Justice Center into separate complexes. One could be for the jails and criminal cases. The other could be for civil litigation matters, including the general division and maybe the two which are in the old county courthouse (probate and domestic relations). Put the criminal stuff and the jails on the outskirts of downtown, or maybe even beyond that, and leave the civil divisions in the heart of downtown.

It seems it all boils down to housing stock. The east side's housing stock is generally older and maintenance is more expensive. It might be more desirable to urbanists, but not to the middle class families who are necessary to the stability of these neighborhoods. If I'm not mistaken, West Park's housing stock is more post-war, with central air and aluminum siding.

Putting aside and not agreeing with your assumptions, it is possible he didn't report it to the police. Sometimes the hospital reports injuries like he had and the police show up to question the victim. It is weird that he provided all those details but refused to 'snitch', which plays more into my theory. Although most don't realize it, many homeowners insurance policies cover losses caused by theft or robbery outside of the home. Separate from that, gambling addicts who lose their 'nest egg' at the casino or to a bookie often concoct elaborate lies on what happened to the money and valuables to provide a cover up to their family members, such as a wife who has told him that she will leave the next time he gambles away their rent and grocery money. your theory is certainly plausible. I just wouldn't say that the facts are conclusive. By the way, if I read the story correctly, the shots he reported to the police were allegedly fired after he was robbed.

You're the resident expert on gangs, gangbangers, and gangbangin', but I still have some very serious doubts that this guy is being truthful. I don't doubt he got robbed. But I don't take at their word, without verification, those who "don't snitch." All we know for sure is that he told the police over 100 shots were fired and the police could not find any evidence whatsoever of one shot being fired. We also know that this story is the best kind of click-bait for NEOMG.