Mr Sparkle

FYI the high rez images are typically taken from low altitude, e.g from a plane. I suspect that Google etal obtain the hig rez images of urban areas from the local GIS agency. They fly update photos evry few years. (Google may call some air photos satellite photos see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps) I think M$ gets all their images from USGS; the high rez is call Urban Areas in TS see usgsquads.com/aerialphotos.htm#Natural_Color_Aerial_Photography (Note that all terraserver images are in the public domain since they are USGS)

"I can have mine.....but you can't have yours!"

Actually, its just "cover" for FWW...the cuts already done (e.g. the foundations are in place for caps)...

Honestly, comparing development patterns in SF to Cincy is misleading, IMHO. SF, being a tourist and a destination place for residents, and other assets all contribute to its urban form, most notably is geography as a peninsula, (and yes that includes transit). To say that there are no downtown freeways is untrue. The Bay Bridge, among others brings cars right into and out of downtown. There is no direct high speed route from the North, but the 101 is freeway in Marin County to Doyle Drive, close enoguh to Financial District. The inent of the web page is obvious, that Cincy could have been SF if only we had rail. A better comparison would be to Cleveland, another rust belt city, but with rail.

he looks like the guy thatplayed the 40 year old virgin?

Thanks,(Inre Ohio and Fed gas tax rates) I shoulda known that ;-)

KJP, I would agree with you whole heartadly that we should let the public decide how the gas tax is spent..but even at this point in time would probably still favor highways, but the sands are shifting. Don't forget that the vast majority of the gas tax is a federal gas tax, not controlled by Ohio. Transportation projects may encourage sprawl, but definatley not the sole cause (Chicken and the egg as Seicer mentions just up thread); an example I might cite is that Butler County and Warren County here (Mason-West Chester etc) spread out a lot in the late 80's early 90's, before Union Centre Blvd, and the widening's of I-71 and I-75. For quite a while Ohio built no new facilities or widened anything, but the sprawl still happened. One of the big things we have to fix is stopping the communities from competing for growth. Its always the next township out to say "hey we can have that growth like XX township just to our south. Some unified planning might help, and compensation for townships that are still rural in nature, so that they are not pressured to grow.

^Yes, the zoning codes were heavily infuenced by traffic engineers and the highway lobbying organizations I cited. General Motors set up a highway engineering school with the express purpose of turning out influential people to redesign cities And not planners?...what about the push to spread folks out by the do-gooders (for lack of a better desc.) Its my understanding that folks thought density was unhealthly. LAnd was cheap, gas was cheap and cars wehere the thing of the future. Everybody would have their little house in the 'burbs with trees and grass all about. I think it was that the Auto guys saw that the demand for cars was from the populace, not them having to create the demand br wiping the cities clean. There was tons of congestion from cars even in the early days (1920's). The push out to the suburbs was already in full force before the 60's and at the mobility option of the day..Streetcar 'burbs..then the first Auto Burbs..etc. There is also more than just Engineers in the highway lobby. Most MPO's were created b/c of a 1974 federal mandate all urbanized areas having a population of 50,000 or more designate a single agency to administer federal transportation funds. ^Most principal highway routes were first surveyed and selected in the 1930s, before the urban renewal movement Yes, most of the outdated corridors were laid down then...however the vast majority of our auto travel today is on the Interstates, whose routes were first set down in the 1955 "yellow book" http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/cincinnati.jpg ^Highway engineers keep seeking to add capacity in the ever-elusive goal of trying to relieve congestion Along with policiticans (see Mitch Daniels) and developers/speculators ^People love their mobility, regardless of the vehicle. Are you going to tell me that you're more mobile with a car in New York, Paris, London, etc.? That's why I typed Personal Mobility, when asked what is the single-most important determinant of the urban land use form? I'm sure you have heard of the walking city..etc when in referenced in the historical development pattern of the city. All I am really taking issue with here is that you did blame all of our urban development patterns and issues on one branch of professionals, traffic engineers, and IMHO you are flat out wrong. Part of finding solutions is to have an understanding of how and why we got here, yeah traffic engineers played a role, along with a helluva lot of other folks (and some "non-people", e.g. FHA, etc)

Yes, all those others you've mentioned have been involved, but after the transportation product has already been delivered. That's ass-backwards. So who designed the transportation product? And where has 95 percent of the transportation funding been allocated? So the planners, politicians etc came in after the traffic engineers? "after the transportation product has already been delivered" Quite a few highway projects in the 60's were tied w/ Urban Renewal projects, for example. Did engineers develop zoning codes that promote large lots, large setbacks, widely dispersed land uses? Sure, why would an engineer develop a highway that deliberately is congested? For land use, are you talking urban or suburban? Probably urban here. Yeah highways were rammed thru the poor parts, and tied top urban renewal --- so only the engineer's were involved in the route selection? No politicos, urban planners? Personal Mobility I'd say that developers have had a greater impact in land use plans that have no teeth. Can you cite an incidence that ODOT railroaded thru a land use plan (I'm curious, not calling you out). And I believe that the Eastern Corridor here in Cincy has had an Economic Impact Analysis (Which is being challenged). Granted, folks love their cars, and any impact analysis will skew to highways. Whoever has the money

I'll take an architect over an engineer any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I want an architect because they tend to envision change and cause innovation. An engineer typically implements the change. If the engineer isn't instructed to design the change, then the status quo is more likely to remain. And, for the past 60 years, traffic engineers have designed our cities. I think it's time to put that charge in the hands of those who regularly start each job looking at a blank sheet of paper. Architects tend to underestimate costs and overestimate their own importance. (A brash generalization, huh -- same broad stroke most of you all paint Engineer's with eh?) An architect is totally wrong for the ODOT Director, if its focus is highways, transit, trucks freight, or anything. If the new directive for ODOT is transit, then the Director, even if a big bad engineer, will excecute that doctrine. I can post a whole list of links to engineering firms that specialize in rail and transit - Big and small ones. (Talking Civil Engineering here....) More than just traffic engineers have designed cities in the past 60 years, there where urban planners, philatropists, politicians, developers and other autocrats. Your statement is shortsighted -- the only reason the urban/suburban fabric is what it is today is b/c of traffic engineers?

St Francis, or St George Hospital. I forget which one was there in South Fairmount, which is the one you linked. Bird's Eye http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qhmzx67ykyjr&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=9026695 But they merged and built a new hospital here in the mid 80's. St Francis/St George they called it, now its Mercy Fransiscan http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qhp7zf7yghp9&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=8910001

Interesting criteria in order to press charges. (Seems to me there are plenty of crimes charged where no one gets killed or hurt)

Aside from IKEA or a big box imploding, is there really any good news about big boxes? A big box is a big box, even if the beloved IKEA

See this: http://www.birdseyetourist.com/?cat=137 Check out infrastructure and development patterns in Europe! France has a lot of motorways inside urban areas, which suprised me. Check out Lyon France, they have quite a bit of tunnels http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=45.791467~4.814115&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=11001006

2 Transit related RFP's http://www.dot.state.oh.us/CONTRACT/consultant.htm Click on "ODOT postings"

I'm glad you don't oversimplify things

They are on Ohio State Plane Coordinates (I win) Google Bentley View for a free viewer

For anyone that can handle DGN files (Microstation V8) ODOT has published County Maps, that show all roads (DOT, county, city and local roads), streams, rail lines, boundaries, place names etc. They are sorted by ODOT district. I think some GIS apps handle DGN files Cin = District 8 Cbus = 6 Cle = 12 Day = 7 Akron = 4 http://www.dot.state.oh.us/cadd/CountyMaps/

Of course, he comes from SE Ohio, coal country...so this probably means a lot for clean coal technology (3rd highest contributions by sector was from electric utilities BTW http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/sector.asp?CID=N00003730&cycle=2006

Is the last one taken in the vicinity of PrimaVista, in East Price Hill (or upper- lower price hill)?

run to beat the traffic across --- there's your cardio!

Then was that you quoted in the Enq. condo story on Sunday?

Daaaah, Gilbert I meant

There's some PDF's of the incident reports on the Enq. link given

I know all the routes around there from my marathon training a LOOOOONG time ago...we would always base our runs from the Running Spot in O'byronville (you could probably find a group to run with there) Problem is, you can't run in the 'Nati w/o going up a hill (or going down one). One of my favorite routes was thru Eden Park, down Eden Park Drive, straight down Madison to Eggleston to Sawyer Point and various routes across the River and Back...coming up Madison/Eden Park Drive was a long hill, but one of the flatter routes up to Mt Adams and Eden Park. Or, Go down Kemper and run along Eastern...well I guess Collins is the only safe way under Columbia Parkway