lopsidedfrock

it's a nice little speck in the vast sprawl wasteland of the rest of the township and outer city.

sure, those annex place names are malls (in varying degrees of success), not nabes. but seriously, ONYX? BUMA? Ottawa? Nothing is "in Ottawa." It's just a fabricated catch-all designation (including Old Orchard, the Bancroft Hills student ghetto, the couple of streets near UT sw of Bancroft & Secor labeled Indian Hills, Westmoreland, and some other stuff) named probably to resemble Ottawa Hills. Ottawa Park is in the middle of this "nabe" and it really separates rougher areas to the east from the more uppity west. Maybe what i was trying to say was that UT site http://www.geography.utoledo.edu/tault/toledoindex.htmlisn't quite realistic in neighborhood breakdown.

^I agree that on the whole the neighborhood designations in Toledo are artificial. No one would ever admit to "live in Southwyck," near Southwyck maybe. Nor "in Franklin Park," for that matter. I've never heard someone say anything's "in Whitmer," just the high school itself. "East Side" is the most obvious.

India Garden

I'm confident that no one refers to any nabe as either BUMA or ONYX. West Toledo (of all the directionals) seems the least specific to me. Most stuff in Toledo is in West Toledo, it covers the most ground. Where does West Toledo end and North or South Toledo pick up?

Willowick is trying to embrace the lake now, with new lakefront development for the rich (will anyone move in?) and banners that say 'expERIEnce' and 'great living on a great lake.'

The first Wickliffe Italians came before any outsprawling from Collinwood: from http://www.cityofwickliffe.com/html/history.htm "Early residents and wealthy Clevelanders who had established large estates here, wished to retain the country atmosphere, so industrialization was discouraged. Most of the residents of Italian ancestry arrived during the 1900's from Campobasso, Italy. They worked as gardeners on the large estates or on the railroads."

^i wish it could be me. damn school in completely unrelated field! also Middle Easterners down Lorain thru to North Olmsted. and how could we forget Wickliffe's Orthodox Jewish population with rabbinical college? (actually they can be easy to overlook since their involvement in secular life is so minimal, they always ran away from me at Coulby) sorry for derailing this into the town next door.

i have a giant eagle insulated bag. i shop at aldi and if i don't have any bags in the car i'll just find a nearly empty box on the pallet, empty it out, and use that. still, i am hooked on giant eagle in toledo for 2 reasons: coupons up to $1 (inclusive) doubled, and $.20 cent gas discount (as long as i've been here) for every $50 spent not including booze or tax. my dad and i share the giant eagle fuelperks and i use them since i have the bigger tank. how suburban of me to focus on gas, sigh.

Just so everyone is clear, I'm not trying to knock Euclid or Parma. They are more urban burbs, walkable places built to a human scale. Hell, my mom lives in Wickliffe and dad in Seven Hills. In a previous post I extolled the virtues of growing up in a place that I could ride my bike to everything, and not have to depend on mom for transportation. Wickliffe has the same mix of former Yugoslavs as Euclid. The Polka HoF is in Euclid because of its Slovenian contingent, not Polish. Here's a link describing how Cleveland-style polka is derived from Slovenian music: http://www.clevelandstyle.com/about.html and here's a wiki quote testifying Euclid's Slovenianness: Euclid is home to a variety of ethnic groups, most notably Slovenian. There are a number of streets in Euclid that bear witness to the Slovenian influence on Euclid, including Recher, Mavec, Drenik, Grdina, Trebec, Mozina, Kapel, and Ljubljana. (I should correct this, because Drenik is in Wickliffe, Mozina is in Collinwood, and Grdina is an elementary school in Cleveland) It would be interesting to see, in a Jeffrey styled post, the ethnic sprawl trajectories in Cleveland. For example, my grandparents when first coming from Slovenia (by way of Timmins, Ontario) moved to the East 60s & St. Clair area where it seemed that everyone was Slovenian. They then rode a wave out to Collinwood where, again, there was a large Slovenian faction. Their last stop was Wickliffe. The Slovenians pretty much made a beeline northeast of their original settlement and sprawled into Lake County. A similar case is for Poles, starting in Tremont (aka Southside), continuing south to Slavic Village (Warszawa), and making their way thru Garfield Hts and points south. I am half Slovenian and half Polish, more east sider than south. One last thing: in the "downtown" area of Wickliffe (ha, right?) centered on Rockefeller & Euclid the residential architecture very much resembles Little Italy: Large multifamily homes that stretch far into their backyards (however less dense). Next time I'm in Wickliffe I'll need to do a photo tour.

^I was referring to Eastlake.

The areas along Lakeshore around 200th are pretty classy looking. ... it's Forest PARK Middle School. I know because my mom and I would walk the dog around there, from Wickliffe (Woodway). I have a deep dislike for those basementless brick ranches that are all nearly identical between 272nd, Forestview, the Wickliffe line, and 90. When it comes to the 'tucky' discussion, sure, the working class needs to live somewhere. But does the area have to look so unfinished? By unfinished I mean having no curbs, gravelly streets, sewer ditches, no sidewalks. Neighboring Willowick has virtually the same income, but pretty much every street there looks finished. Part of the reason must be that Willowick incorporated in 1925 while Eastlake incorporated in 1948 from Willoughby Township. My feeling is that older township development is just junkier looking due to looser zoning. And no, I'm not advocating homeowners' associations. One last thing, I'm much more aware of Eastlake than Brunswick. I'm basically going off my friends from Strongsville who uniformly refer to it as Bruntucky. I thought that's something everyone heard.

^yeah totally. Eastlake and Brunswick are both tuckys. and let me correct myself earlier, i get more of a Brook Park vibe out of the North High and Surfside areas than a Parma vibe.

i've heard someone call Euclid "Parma-by-the-Sea." I think Euclid is more like Parma when it comes to housing stock and age. They are both inner rings and both are (but less so now) heavily Eastern European. Southern Parma and southern Euclid are both more varied when it comes to topography. Eastlake has a lot of unfinished-looking, previously township development: no sidewalks, ditches on the treelawns instead of sewers, homes without uniform setbacks. The area described in Eastlake is mostly along Lakeshore and Vine west of 91. The area close to North High, and Surfside are more Parma-y.

^seven hills, then wickliffe, then univ circle/cle hts, now toledo, so i can't really vote at the moment. i like east better also.

^A recessive trait is one that is only expressed if it is located on both chromosomes. Also, one of the X chromosomes in each female cell is inactivated randomly via a process called Lyonization. I suppose this trait can be expressed if half of paternal Xs and half of maternal Xs are inactivated. The Y chromosome carries a lot less genetic material than X, the extra male stuff (with female being the default human), and neither X nor Y is inactivated in males.

^the mayor looks like he was huffing too much landfill gas

I wasn't expecting to read about the Easter Monkeys on here, but yeah, they were the shit.

WAIT YOU GOT A JOB IN CLEVELAND? I THOUGHT IT WAS DEAD!!! (referencing other posts, chris)

no, it's a plasticized (?) glitter graphic saying WELL EXCUUUSE ME. i got the shirt in geneva-on-the-lake

i still don't see Highland HILLS

yes finalist, the only one in the school's recent memory. i'm from the class of 2000.

^Don't forget that varied topography can force curvilinear/cul-de-sac development. Also these areas are more difficult to develop, driving the price point up, not to mention the additional beauty factor of living near a valley, river, or what have you. The Ottawa Hills/Old Orchard setup in Toledo seems similar to that of Oakwood. Ottawa Hills is curvilinear while adjacent Old Orchard is a grid in the city limits. Perhaps the development in Ottawa Hills turned out more exclusive because the topography is more varied--there are actually hills and a river--unlike Old Orchard which is pretty much flat (a slight slope at best in places, where the streets flood in summer rain). Sorry to bring up Toledo in a SW OH thread! Also, let me add that I've never been to this Oakwood, just Cleveland's, so I might be totally off base with its topography.

^$36.08 sounds expensive for salad and toast if you ask me.

me at pat's in the flats