3 Dog Pat

Besides housing and retail, what about transit oriented industrial parks? I haven't really thought this out before I am posting it, so forgive me. I am just thinking of Euclid, and the area that would most logically be a stop if an extended red line were to happen. St. Clair, where the park and ride is now. The area around it is either brownfields or the huge lincoln electric HQ and manufacturing plants, so I don't think anyone would want to put housing around it, and there is next to no existing housing within a half mile. But could rapid transit be used as a unique opportunity to market these brownfields to developers to entice them to build an industrial park there? Has this been done before, anywhere?

Planners hope to ride the rails to bike-hike trail Monday, January 03, 2005 Tom Breckenridge Plain Dealer Reporter Planners want to build a vital spine to Northeast Ohio's growing network of bike-and-hike trails with a 72-mile link between Cleveland and Youngstown. For more info, click the link www.plaindealer.com

I live in Mississippi now, and I don't think they would even do something bible belty. I guess Ohio is now the heart of the bible belt :|

^that mention of TED FM is similar to a station down here in Jackson, JACK FM. No DJ's, they advertise that they don't take requests, but they play everything. This morining on the way to work they played Metalica then Joni Mitchell then Fugees and Debbie Gibson. It is actually really good, for corporate radio. I was wondering if it was the next format of choice for Clear Channel or whoever

I was looking for info on Pinnacle in Cleveland, stumbled onto it from Google

didn't RTA try a "RailBus" in the early 80's. Is that what you are proposing KJP? Or was that different?

107.9 the end (if this was 1994)

As I recall, there are meetings going on right now in Lakewood about the parking situation. If they decide it is a good idea, won't Kucinich jump on board. (Probably saying he has been fighting the fat cats at RTA for years to get this done) :|

How cool would it be to say Cleveland took a highway and converted it to a boulevard with a transit spine? And opened up a huge chunk of land in the process?

Lakewood and western Cleveland remind me of the neighborhoods I lived in Chicago, along the brown (Ravenswood) line. It is not as densly populated, but I think it is populated enough. If the line went into the next shoreway boulevard, then all development north might be TOD. (OK, all I know about TOD I learned on this forum so don't flame me) With Battery park coming in, there are more potential riders. If it were part of the waterfront line, it could help that struggling line a bit. Just my thoughts

So Black is Euclid BRT Blue is Waterfront Red is red line to airport/Windermere Green? Orange? (new?) How much partial credit do I get?

what about a shoreway to Clifton Rd? An extension of the waterfront line.

I was just wondering, since the group seems to know these things. Would a west side BRT or trolly line be feasible. At first I was thinking Detroit Ave, and use the lower section of the Detroit Sup bridge and wind up at Tower City. Then I thought of the new Lakeshore Boulevard (old shoreway) It could just be built into the new road. Or at least it could be planned when the money is available. What do y'all think :-)

I am pretty sure Chicago is $1.75 now after ten years at $1.50 (but you get an extra $1 for every $10 you put on your transit card!)

punch is short or Punchin' Pat. My boxing name. My all time record in the golden gloves is 0-1 (by decision) Most people who meet me laugh when they think of me in the ring. People who have not met me always think that thier friend "punchin" is some sort of bruiser. Also, this brings a chuckle to people who know me

While I think the mayor is a crooked as a circle, I like the concept. My vote would be to make it a live work space, with a gallery and the performance hall. Since the city has taken it over, it has never been used to its potential. Maybe an artists community there would not only benefit the building, but the city as well. For those of you who know Euclid, you may want to laugh, but with Beachland ballroom, there are signs of life north of I-90 on the east side. School's reuse as condos divides Euclid Tuesday, December 14, 2004 Thomas Ott Plain Dealer Reporter Euclid - Shore Cultural Centre may be a nice place to visit, but fans of the historic building are not sure they want anyone to live there. more at Cleveland.com

its not a downtown, more like a neighborhood center, but I think Coventry in Cleve. Hts would get my vote. My old hometown of Euclid is trying. They have a little bit of potential, especially if they convert the old high school into condo's like they are talking about.

Housing, stores planned to lift S. Euclid Monday, December 13, 2004 Thomas Ott South Euclid -A proposal to tear down half of the old Cedar Center shopping center to clear the way for housing and stores will pump new life into this older suburb, Mayor Georgine Welo said. Catlin Properties of Sacramento, Calif., and Contrende Co. of Chicago have plans for a trendy mixed-use building with shops on the first floor and as many as 128 apartments or condominiums on four upper floors. Other buildings planned for the site at Cedar and Warrensville Center roads include restaurants, additional stores, a handful of townhouses and a parking garage. South Euclid, which owns seven acres of parking at the site, would give the land to the developers under an agreement that City Council will consider tonight. The developers would try to purchase five more acres. The land is split among seven parcels and held by different owners. The developers also may have to buy out leases for existing stores. A Starbucks coffee shop, bank and car wash near the corner would not be affected...

If it happens, it sounds like a nice way to bring some of the old entertainment district flavor to the flats, while also helping to continue its transformation into an extension of the WHD residential area. I heard Jimmy DeMora saying that he wanted to put the casino in the flats, and I was scared. The development sounds a lot like the place in Chicago I went to go see movies when i lived there. It had a big garage, a Barnes and Noble, movie theater and I think a Wild Oats. I wonder if Wolsteens owned it. (It was on Clyborn where Southport ends, right by Jack Sullivans, the OSU bar.)

I remember the Forest City folks saying the river wall would have to be reconstructed as a first step to develop Scranton Peninsula. And it would cost some ridiculous amount of money, like $500 million. Does anyone know if this is just an excuse, or is there something to it?

from the PD Site for convention center may be picked in a month Wednesday, December 08, 2004 Tom Breckenridge Plain Dealer Reporter The group charged with planning a downtown convention center wants to choose a site by early January and have major recommendations on financing, size and layout to the community by April 30. The Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Convention Facilities Authority will decide between two sites -- renovating the current, city-owned convention center on Lakeside Avenue or building anew behind Tower City, on land owned by Forest City Enterprises. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

The "threat" of eminent domain is all the governement/developer needs. It will kill any private real estate transactions. No one will want to invest in an area when the powers that be say they will use eminent domain as "a last resort". That is what Campus Partners did to South Campus. They kept saying they would eventually use eminent domain. Once they declared that, no one wanted to invest in South Campus. They let the area deteriorate for 6 years, until they had a sufficient number of empty storefronts. Then, legally, they could call the area blighted, or economically depressed (I forget the legal term they used). Either way, the threat of eminent domain can change an area dramatically. Its dirty politics.

The stube is the last south campus bar still standing. Between 8th and 9th on High. So, I guess I did not serve you any $3 pitchers of Killians.

Look at the development in Cleveland at W. 117th (there is a thread) That developer was able to get every owner to sell, it took time, but it did not have to have the government seize anyone's home. Dont get me started on Campus Partners. My favorite story about eminent domain was Lakewood saying that if houses only had one bathroom the house was blighted. On 60 Minutes Lakewood's mayor admitted she lived in a house with only one bathroom.

Down here in Mississippi, a Wal-Mart was trying to get into one of the new richy suburbs. This suburb, Madison, has extremely strict design codes. Every building has to be made of brick, or at least a brick facade. I guess Wal-Mart originally balked at changing their look, but the city stayed firm. The Wal-Mart here is made out of brick, the only one in the world at the time it opened. I will try to take a few pics tonight. The point, if the city sticks to its guns, even big box retailers like Wal-Mart will conform to a design standard.