3 Dog Pat

Wait, I think I was getting my work numbers mixed up with my urban ohio numbers. "In seeking an appraisal, the district used Cleveland-based Hotel & Leisure Advisors to estimate the building's value for a hotel developer. The company estimated the property to be worth $8.5 million and said it could be used for a 225-room upscale hotel with a bar, restaurant and pool that would then be worth $35 million to $40 million." Sorry!

I have to agree, it looks more suburban office campus than the heart of the city

The article said they were looking to sell it for around $2.5MM, and once it was operational as a hotel, it would be worth $8MM. So, there is $5MM right there, and then throw in tax incentives. There is enough money to get it done.

I love that view, and I hope they do too, and scrap thier plan for a skywalk after the historic tax credits expire.

It is still an awards ceremony, not just a rock concert. I think Public Hall is the best venue

So, not one "spin off" retail opening in the Avenue mall due to the casino? What is the approximate vacancy rate there?

Thanks, I remember when it was in the planning stages, it was either going to be so successful it would drive local stores out of business (mostly directed at Wal-mart) or it was a huge waste of money because it would fail. I'm happy it's doing well, and Dave's in Ohio City is still open

In general, is Steelyard busy?

Ooohh Klassy!

Let's get back on topic

MMPI is the owner of the complex. After 20 years the ownership reverts back to the county, or if MMPI fails to meet its minimum commitments. All the details are in this thread, spring of 2010 timeframe. I'm no fan of the walkway idea.

It is a bit complicated, but under the agreement with the city, county and MMPI, the city owns Public Hall, and the county/MMPI own the convention center. As part of the deal, MMPI will pay for all of the costs to separate the two structures for things like electrical and HVAC. Also, the new design for the CC, called for the removal of the 1960s addition. So the removal and restoration of that facade was paid for by MMPI. The hall will often times be "rented" by the CC for events that need it, so it will act like one structure, but it will have seperate utilities. So, the city would have to pay for the awning on E. 6th, and I don't if that is a priority right now. I just hope the city does not advocate a skyway from the hotel into the facade of Public Hall.

The "big" projects of today, the casino, medical mart/CC, are indeed two big projects. However, The difference between then and now is that during the stadia and museum building of the 90s, that was pretty much the only thing going on. And to be fair, a lot of people in the city thought it would be a magic bullet. Today, we have a have (without going into the dozens of examples) Uptown, W. 25th, the Healthline, Perk Park, Gordon Square... We now build not just so people will visit, but will build for the people who live here or soon will. Constructive criticism is one thing, but judging a city on google earth flybys and Cleveland.bomb commenters is crap.

Wow, the urbanophile dosen't get a city that isn't Indy. That article would have been timely in 1998.

awesome article. "The central city along Euclid Avenue near Tower City has not been bulldozed and replaced with cheap modern structures and parking lots." I'm glad he missed the thing that makes me slightly insane. But, to this thought, I can only say "Preach" In my two and a half days in Cleveland, I discovered a place I would like to revisit. My little taste of the place whetted my appetite for more. Also I discovered something about myself – that I had many preconceptions that required re-examination. Nobody comes to Cleveland because nobody knows what an interesting place it is. We keep away because the negative views we have acquired. Cleveland is a great place. It deserves more recognition. Cleveland is not a wasteland like Detroit, but then again I bet Detroit is not quite the wasteland I perceive it to be. Thanks MH

Thanks for the thread, UC looks great. One thing I notice, the city has to figure out a way to do something with the power lines in the city. Look at the L'Albetros picture, now imagine that same pic without the power lines. The good news, the area around Uptown does have burried utilites and it looks great!

Not to get lost in the weeds, but.... As you can see, this thread was started nearly 10 years ago (by yours truly :) ) and at the time the convention center was already a 20 year discussion without a lot of results. Sometime around that time Peter Lewis of Progressive fame, who had been a benefactor of many Cleveland institutions, said he would not give out any more money unless Cleveland institutions started to collaborate and not be islands to themselves. In my opinion, that was a catalyst for some of the institutions to look past their borders. At the Clinic, Floyd Loop (I think) retired from the CEO job, and Toby Cosgrove came in. He was a more public face of the Clinic than his predecessors. Among other things, he starred in a 'Believe in Cleveland" commercial, highlighting what would be called the Healthline. It was called that thanks to him having the Clinic partner with University Hospitals to buy the naming rights to the line. It was in that spirit that he approached the commissioners about the idea of a medical mart. Tim Hagan, one of the commissioners, was interested. He also had a friendship with the Kennedy family who ran MMPI. So, he floated the idea to him and the MMPI people liked it. I said all that to say this. The convention center rebuild would not happen without the concept of the Medical Mart. The Medical Mart would have never got off the ground without the strong backing of the Cleveland Clinic and the interest from MMPI.

The casino is hoping to address it by constructing a skywalk

Is that kind of like the luxurious lanes of Seinfeld fame?

I like the idea of putting them near the convention center and casino, so people who are here on business can do a "Oh, yeah. I forgot the R&R HOF was here, I should visit"

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/clevelandmedicalmart/index.cfm/about/live-web-cam/

Is this a chicken and the egg type thing? In order to build new apartments you need financing. Looking at the Flats East Bank, it may be easier to start with office and hotel type destinations than housing. Then you could add housing as an expansion of the original project. In order to get the financing for the office piece, you need a large percentage of leases (think Nashville MM) so that is why the Browns/Cavs/Indians are saying they would be interested in putting in a sports hospital there. So, to start a project from scratch to include housing you need a large company who needs space. Space is built, with add on amenities. Based on the popularity, financing further expansion is possible, which would include housing and expanded retail. I will admit this is speculation / what I have learned from reading urban ohio for years.

Any news on this, or the RTA tease from a while back? :)

WOW

Surface parking lot. Britains got talent buzzer! "plaza of connectivity"