3 Dog Pat

Do you believe in zoning? Do you believe in urban planning? Do you believe in assigning landmark status to buildings? If the answer to all 3 is no, then we will have to agree to disagree

Because ODOT doesn't like sidewalks :)

^Casino needs parking. OK. Across the street from the casino is.........a parking garage The reason the Columbia building was vacant was because Dan Gilbert owned it, and wanted to tear it down to build a parking lot if his casino measure passed. I am pretty sure the idea of converting it to residential, much like the successful 668 building, was tossed out there. Historic renovations are very popular, but you need historic buildings in order to renovate them.

The bottom 4 floors of the Higbee's building will be called Phase 1 of the casino. It is not temporary. The plan is to build the Phase 2 part behind Tower City and across the street from the Q. The Higbee's part of the casino is permanant. I used to be a really happy camper with this arraingement until the whole "welcome center" was added to the mix. I'm skeptical that Phase 2 will ever get built. The reason I say that is that the expected crowds of millions of gamblers to the Higbee's portion of the casino seem very inflated. Once they do not get their "expected" number of gamblers they can shelve the Phase 2. It is true that Dan Gilbert spent $85MM on the land which is a huge amount, but the land is valuable, and I have a feeling that Forest City knew they would loose the valuable tax credits with the pedestrian bridge, so that was part of the deal. In summary: FACTS: The Higbee's building will be a permanent casino. Plans are being developed for new contruction of a second phase of one very large casino.

^I would love to see what assumptions were used in that model. How much traffic in the real world would choose to travel down Detroit, Lorain or any parallel street to the new boulevard? How many people would choose I-90? ODOT has a history of finding excuses, rarely do they find solutions, especially if it requires innovation.

Just had to include this letter to the editor Can't stop progress for Cleveland's few pedestrians http://blog.cleveland.com/letters/2011/08/cant_stop_progress_for_clevela.html ....Why should Cleveland be unduly concerned with pedestrians when there are so few, and our economic health depends on such things as the casino?

its kind of like playing where is waldo, if waldo was a big red crane

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/08192011/index.php I can't post the individual slides, so: Slide #3 - Shows that when you drop off your car at the valet, you walk right into the entrance for the escalators. There is one street exit at the far end of the lobby, and another one through the small retail store. Both exit you onto prospect, away from the corner. To doors on the corner, under the bridge are for the large retail space, not connected internally to the valet drop off. Slide #20 Shows a rendering of the lobby, with the escalators, the street exit and the small retail spot. Slide #19 Shows the pick up, with the drop off and lobby in the backround. You can see how prominent the escalators are in the lobby. EDIT: Slide #4 and #5 If you self park, the parking lobby is on the second floor, next to the bridge. Only the valet lobby is on the first floor If I am missing something, please tell me. The above slides say to me, that if you park in the "welcome center" there is not a convenient way to walk to the casino without going through that bridge.

Those doors are for the restaurant. Is there a connection between the valet drop off and the restaurant?

The renderings are online via the planning commission. There is one street exit one the far end of the ground floor. There are elevators and escalators with signs that say "Casino" as soon as you walk into the welcome center

Wouldn't street life would have improved by simply being in between the premiere entertainment district, E. 4th, and the casino with its millions of projected visitors? From the renderings, it doesn't even look like they give you the option to walk outside. You drop your car off at the valet, enter the "welcome center" and take the elevator to the bridge floor. Also, the Columbia was purchased by Gilbert's group with the sole intention of tearing it down, so calling it "abandoned" or the PD's favorite line, "vacant for years" is just a lie.

If the Columbia building was torn down for something better, your point would have merit. It was torn down for a parking garage.

The Higbee's building, a graceful old lady, is going to have a baseball bat sized phallic device shoved into her rear. Can we start a petition to have this called the Robert Brown bridge?

^below the belt

CLEJoe, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU CONTACT THE BARS THAT YOU PLAN ON GOING TO AND GIVE THEM A HEADS UP!!! From my years behind the bar, groups that call ahead so that we can properly staff, are wonderful. Bus loads of people who show up out of the blue are a nightmare.

Thanks for that punch in the gut

Wow, thanks!

I know they will likely that Forest City will lose historic tax credit for the Higbees building, but I think they knew that all along. The bridge was aproved by the planning commission, they did ask for it to look a little nicer, but I have not heard anything that says they will not proceed with it.

^well, at least from that perspective you will not be able to see it with the overhead walkway blocking the view

^Was that in the Sandro's plaza?

Thanks for the pics Mayday. My eye keeps drifting to the line on the SW banner, "Our Pride Forever"...........unless a well connected developer wants parking

The blight of South Campus was manufactured by Campus Partners, but Im tired of arguing that point. I lived, and worked, on South Campus before Papa Joes burned down.

Anyone know if any part of the building materials being recycled?

^but not an "I have arrived in downtown Cleveland Welcome Center" People just would not know where Tower City was if it weren't for the welcome center. @Mayday, I hear what you are saying about the architectural details, I just think with the building look, layout and especially location, it would have an awesome residential renovation.

Mall A is a parking structure for Key Bank