3 Dog Pat

OK, thanks

The casino works because of the convention center. Otherwise, it would divert entertainment dollars. I have heard that the Cleveland casino would be built for $600MM, I also heard that the four casinos in the state would be built for $1Billion. Where can I find hard data on the budgets for these places?

You should be able to see links to most articles written about Cleveland on the various threads here. Lots of travel ones lately, and of course "rust belt" stories Video games? Don't know.

I get the metaphor, but isn't the Public Hall phase an internal remodel?

Is the proposed path of the towpath trail on the TC side of the river? I hope when they design the casino they are sensitive to the trail, and the river in general

I have learned a lot about urban planning here, which I really appreciate. The bartender in me loves starting a conversation to find out what people's passions are, and then learn from them. The engineer in me loves asking "is there a better way" Those have usually lead to great and informative discussions over the years. I miss the Pope and Ewoops

Now that the Casino at TC is a go, along with the CC, the new train station, and the East Bank are all on their way, do you think it makes Phase 1 more or less likely to attract investors for development?

^^The WFL opened in '96, at about the time Fado opened on the west bank. I think this was the height of the East Bank, but it rapidly declined afte that. If more adult customers had a choice in traveling to the flats, they could have kept the nicer venues open before they all needed to go 18+ in order to pay the rent. I remember thinking it was strange to have a train go through the flats, but not cater to the people who traveled to it.

^Remember the front page story the PD gave him during FCEs attempt to scuttle the CC/MM or at least have it built at tower city? -I think every casino proposal in Cleveland had the financial backing of FCE, where they would own and operate it, except this one. -The Casino is being built at Tower City, on the same land FCE would not sell to the county. They only offered the county "air rights." -Dan Gilbert has partners in the casino other than Penn, who are undisclosed. I think Gilbert is more of a partner with FCE, and I am sure he made a good deal for himself. FCE is smart as well, using him to lobby for the interests of the company would sway public opinion more effectively than say a Sam Miller.

^^I still think if the WFL ran all night, or at least until 3am, the Flats would have been much healtier, and the WFL would have been much more valuable

I'm not pro casino's, and I think Dan Gilbert is the spokesmodel for Forest City. That said, I think Forest City is a good developer for large scale installations. They did a great job transforming the Terminal Tower complex into Tower City, despite falling short of their original plans. There was an article with one of the Ratners recently where he was saying that if the casino issue passed, it might be a blessing that the medical mart and CC would go to the mall. If that is true, I am exited to see what FCE has up their sleeve for the rest of the property including Scranton Peninsula.

^Were votes for the mayor 110% of a normal vote, or did just 110 people vote? :-D :evil:

^too late now, but a mix of at large and ward reps is what I would have liked.

Now that 6 has passed, who does everyone want to see run for county executive? I am hoping for Chris Ronayne. Any other ideas?

My guess is that he, along with Forest City, wants the parking revenue that the city gets now. They are using connectivity as an argument to pull it down. I can't imagine that he would get much traction out of it

Depends how you look at it. Euclid is not doing great, but compared to most of the regions of Cleveland and East Cleveland that surround it, it is doing much better. Personally I feel that the services they have targeted towards seniors and low income home owners has been a strategic factor preventing an East Cleveland like decline that most people outside of Euclid have been predicting for the past 30 years. I haven't seen any reports of the mayor of North Royalton being caught looting the city hall of Lakewood, so I am not sure how I feel about cities stealing from one another. My point was there is a new economic theory worthy of getting the Nobel Prize. NPR summed it up as "bigger is often not better" when it comes to corporations. Powerful theories like this often can be translated onto many different organizations, including local governments. The perils of Cleveland's size and its relationship with its neighboring communites are well documented. Has anyone looked at the advantages of such a system? What are they? Can they be enhanced with cluster communites, or would that damage them? Maybe certain things work better in Euclid that they would in Detroit Shoreway or in Pepper Pike. There is a chance that the region sees benefits from this. It is the same thinking that says what works for Mississippi may not work for Maine. I'm not saying the benefits outweigh the costs. I'm saying I don't think anyone has looked at the benefits. A sober discussion about regionalism needs to include these discussions, and maybe this Nobel winning theory. On another note, this forum used to be a place to discuss ideas. Lately it's become more like a town hall meeting with people screaming about keeping the government out of medicare. I'm going to take a break for a while, no need to respond. I realize how stupid I am now.

Council or alderman's offices generally work like that.

My point is, it seems to be easier for smaller comminites to offer benefits geared towards thier population than lager, more diverse communites. That was the point of the Nobel winning reseach. The senior services was an example, not the point.

^or the other way around

The Nobel Prize for economics was in the news because for the first time, a women recieved the honor (and some other award Nobel gave out took a lot of media energy) What really was not reported was what earned her the award. Her theory is that small and medium sized organizations generally better and more efficient than large or giant organizations. This got me thinking about regionalism. While looking at ways to combine some services, we should also look at benefits the network of small and medium sized communities are able to offer that a big city like Columbus wouldn't be. For instance, my Mom still lives in Euclid and recently she was going to put in a new rail on the stairs to the basement. A neighbor told her that since she is a senior citizen, the city would do it for her. So my Mom called the city, and requested the service. A day later the city came, inspected the entire house, put in the rail and handles to assist getting in and out of the bath. The cost? A suggested donation of $7. If you go to the website, the city offers a crazy amount of servies. Euclid is far from a rich suburb, but they are able to do it. One reason I think regional proponants should also research on the benefits of smaller communites, is the Mary Poppins effect. "A spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down." If these communites and its citizens knew that people and decision makers were aware of the good things smaller cities can do, they would be less hesitant at trying some things that a larger, regional group can do. No slippery slope to a mega-city. Just some thoughts.

A genuine question, not intended to be snarky, but do people actually plan vacations just to gamble? I know in Las Vegas it is a big part of it, but its the whole sin city aspect of it as well draws people. I think in this case I would believe anecdotal evidence than either pro/con gambling studies.

I am trying to figure out when I said we should close Burke, is you see it please tell me. What I did say, and I will try to go into more detail, is that the current dredgeing storage facility, the one that is about to fill up, is at Burke, north and East of the runways, should be looked at. The current plan is to turn this land into an office park. If its good enough for an office park, it should be good enough for a port facility. (please click the link because I don't know how to post a google map) The facility the port wants to build would be just west of E. 55th and take 20 years before facilities can be moved there. The land at Burke (north and east of the runways) just west of E. 55th would be ready much, much sooner. If Muni Light can be relocated, even less time. Burke might be impacted, and its capacity reduced, but it would not have to close. If you can build an office park there, you should be able to build port facilites. Now you have air, rail, water and road together in one large functional port.

Burke is all landfill. It was built with the same dredgings they are planning on using for the new facility, and the ones on Dike 14. Why would it be any different?

What about using the eastern half of Burke, it doen't look like it is doing anything now. Maybe Burke's capacity would have to be scaled down, but wouldn't a port that had water, rail, road and air in one facility be a good thing? (I tried inserting a google map) http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cleveland&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.231745,78.837891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio&ll=41.526668,-81.666183&spn=0.016739,0.038495&t=h&z=15

YES I AM!!! thanks