Niko

I just think its a better idea to put something there that residents will use more than once a month. We already have a park that no one uses and benches that no one sits on, lets put in something for the neighborhood that at least has the potential to give the mall an appearance of life during off hours. I don't think fancier plants and benches will do that. For example, I have friends that live downtown (bingham) that drive out to my house so we can drive to the park to play tennis. It would be nice if I could just meet them after work on the mall to play. To commuters passing by on the drive home it would give the appearance of life after 5PM downtown and maybe improve the cities image a bit.

Niko, I really like this idea. And what a cool place to play tennis, basketball, bocci, etc. the idea is great, but seriously how will that be used year round and after 6pm and on weekends? It's in the middle of a civic center. To the East or West would be great and use the area for movies, etc. As a creative thinker I can't see how this would work from either a, financial and neighborhood use, point. 99% of the parks around here can't be used year round. I think having it roughly equidistant from the avenue district, reserve square, 668 Euclid, E 4th lofts, WHD, Flats, etc..(they're all less than a mile) is the best place to put it. It would be better to funnel everyone towards one set of facilities rather than spread them out between 2 or more.

Yes, that's what i was thinking KJP. From what I see, people pretty much only use the malls during lunch time(barring any special event). I'm thinking that giving them something to do besides sitting and enjoying the weather may promote more use. I can see lunch time and after work leagues starting up and giving the space more energy. Employees already use the courts at sherwin williams' riverfront facility during lunch, and, although not downtown, I've seen people playing soccer during lunch at Progressive's campus on rt.91. I think courts would have a pretty solid draw during lunch and potentially after work. Plus, its in a central area, right between all the companies on PS and those in the CBD.

Can we get basketball and/or tennis courts down there in addition to the random benches?

There's no incentive for FC to do this easily. They could cooperate and sell the parcel for 5 million and reap all the positive benefits, or they could be difficult and sell the parcel for 50 million and still reap all the benefits. I think they're just trying to maximize their profit which is what any smart company tries to do.

What kind of timeframe are we looking at before agreements for the study are signed and funds disbursed?

I'm sorry, but that bus shelter is just ridiculous. Definitely a preference form form over function there. I'd rather stand in the middle of an empty parking lot than use that in the winter.

Its a safety thing. If you vote along party lines its never solely your fault when things go wrong and you can still claim praise when things go right. If you vote outside of your parties wishes, not only do you open yourself up to direct criticism for failures, you also risk losing the support of your own party members on future issues.

I know this is off topic, but it seemed fitting to the current discussion. Can't let the Dems score another point. Happy Tuesday! :-D http://www.theonion.com/articles/passage-of-health-care-reform-brings-democratrepub,17281/

The two possible Republican responses I see from this study. 1. If the study shows 3C is a bad idea. Republicans say "We've said its a bad idea all along the Democrats just like wasting money." 2. If the study shows 3C is an great idea. Republicans say "The studies are biased and unreliable. Democrats can't be trusted, and we shouldn't be spending money"

^And on the weekends I can park on the street for free. Yet again, it was a GENERALIZATION. I know that its not 100% true for all cases. We can nitpick everyone's arguments until the cows come home, but we won't really gain anything. My point was that parking costs and local transit costs are fairly close for multi-person trips so its pretty safe to take that out of the financial equation.

Does anyone have any idea how much of an increase in tax revenue this might generate solely from the improvement in freight movement? Is there even a way to figure this out? It may be a good way to show an offset to the annual operating costs.

Dan, your argument that all non-gas+parking costs are sunk costs and thus out of the equation doesn't hold up. - Every time anyone buys insurance these days, they are asked to estimate the annual mileage. Annual mileage relates to risk and thus to insurance costs, as it should. I pay less by stating that my truck is only used on in town trips (true), and thus my expected mileage is 5K/year. That is only possible if I take some form of mass transit for all of my out of town trips. - Annual mileage is directly related to risk of moving violations, and moving violations cost money directly, and in the form of increased insurance rates. - Depreciation is directly related to mileage. A 5 year old car used only for in town trips will be worth significantly more in resale than the same car with an extra 50K miles on it cause it was also used for out of town travel. - maintenance is not insignificant, and is related to mileage. Look at the maintenance schedule in your owners manual. I just paid $50 for an oil change at jiffy lube. At one change per 3000 miles, that relatively small cost, alone, is about $8/round trip to cleveland. - The purchase of a car is itself a decision that can bring significant differences in costs, related to how the car will be used. I bought a used toyota tacoma with 140K miles on it for $5K, but only because I knew it was for in town use. If I have to buy a car for out of town trips also, I will be less likely to go with such an inexpensive option. The more good mass transit we have, the more people will be able to spend less on their cars. These are real costs, Dan. They add up. It's not as simple as gas + parking. Dan's assertion may not be 100% accurate, but it's a pretty good generalization. To counter your example, my insurance company hasn't asked me my annual mileage since I signed up 3 years ago. If you already own a vehicle 80% of the non-gas/parking costs are going to be the same regardless of how much you drive (within reason). We can nitpick costs to the penny, but this entire project to date is based on educated guesses and generalizations. To go further I'd say for a multi-person trip parking costs and local transit costs probably offset each other to a degree(parking in downtown Cleveland ranges from $5-20, each all day RTA pass is $5). So for a family that already owns a car, the only actual cost in the equation is gas vs tickets. Again, this is a generalization. I know that sometimes people will walk everywhere they have to go or someone will pick them up.

I think the problem with Saigon is that unless there are people sitting outside it seems like its closed. When looking for a place to eat I've had quite a few people say "is that place even open?"

Two question: Does anyone know what the average number of times a train rider who uses this type of service uses it per year? If we have 11 million people in ohio and AECOM is predicting 478,000 riders in the first year that means if each person that rides, rides it one time we're expecting 4.3% of Ohioans to ride it. But if on average each rider rides 2 times a year, we're expecting 2.1% of Ohions to ride it which is a significantly smaller number of people...(continue extrapolation)... Secondly, Is the 478,000 a prediction for one way rides or round trips?

^NIMBYs squash projects all the time. Although I think the argument "I don't want the trains because it will run through my backyard and be too noisy" is an infinitely better than " I don't want the trains because I don't think anyone will ride it", but I haven't heard that first one yet.

I was planning to get rid of my car (which costs me $9k a year with loan/ins/gas/maint/parking) when 3C came online since my only necessary driving was to Columbus. Non-3C factors (RTA) have changed that, but it was a nice thought while it lasted.

I know the planned eventual top speed is 110, but what's a realistic number for the highest average speed we can reach on this line? It may be better used to refute the 39mph average the opponents are shouting.

Jeffrey has it right. Strickland still has to get a republican vote, he's just delaying the fight. Hopefully the results of the studies will make it near impossible for the republicans to vote nay without looking like total fools. Although I'm sure they'll just say the studies are biased and unacceptable.

This is the first I've heard of these "Hessler folks". I'll have to take a drive over there and see for myself, but it really sounds like they have a suburb in the middle of the city and they don't want it to change.

Cuyahoga County officials winnow med mart shortlist to four construction companies CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County commissioners are down to a final four construction firms vying to design and build a downtown medical mart and convention center. Chicago developer MMPI will still manage the $425-million, taxpayer-financed project. But the new firm – which MMPI must select and the county must approve under a competitive proposal process -- will act as general contractors. http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/04/cuyahoga_county_officials_winnow_med_mart_shortlist_to_four_construction_companies.html

I had dinner at Chinato last night (very good meal), and I asked the waitress if they were planning on outdoor seating. She said that they are just waiting on the furniture and it should be about 2 weeks.

KJP, I'm guessing this is the piece you're referring to? Authored by John Michael Spinelli Director of Ohio Operations for Tubular Rail Inc. Now this is pure, unbiased journalism at its best. <insert sarcasm smiley> Plain Dealer's Larkin tees off on Strickland's 3C train scheme, hints sale is 'outright dishonesty' COLUMBUS, Ohio - Brent Larkin, the Cleveland Plain Dealer's editorial director from 1991 until his retirement in 2009, had an early round of golf last Sunday, when he again teed off, with a vengeance and direction down the fairway that spectators expect Tiger Woods to show at this year's Masters Golf Tournament, on Ohio Gov. Strickland's scheme to spend $400 million on a slow conventional train plan the controversial editorialist called a "passenger train boondoggle." http://www.examiner.com/x-23537-Columbus-Government-Examiner~y2010m3d30-Plain-Dealers-Larkin-tees-off-on-Stricklands-3C-train-scheme--hints-sale-is-outright-dishonesty

One of the talking points for 3C is that it will create jobs in Ohio. Can we get someone who runs a business that will benefit, in Ohio, to be the poster child for this movement? Something along the lines of "building 3C will let me keep my company open, providing jobs for x number of employees." If people can see how it will directly benefit people like them or their friends financially it may sway them to the "for" 3C side.

Definitely not unbiased seeing as the author is the Director of Ohio Operations for Tubular Rail Inc., but I thought I'd post it anyways. http://www.examiner.com/x-23537-Columbus-Government-Examiner~y2010m3d26-Gov-Strickland-ODOT-chief-losing-steam-as-critics-questions-on-3C-train-plan-mount-go-unanswered Gov. Strickland, ODOT chief losing steam as critics' questions on 3C train plan mount, go unanswered COLUMBUS, Ohio - Ohio rail bosses from Gov. Ted Strickland to appointed leaders at transportation and rail development have been cheerleading spending $400 million in free cash from Washington on a slow and time-consuming train scheme they trumpet is only the first phase of a multi-billion plan that will demand ongoing operating subsidies for a three-city link up that Amtrak says it will operate if someone else pays for it but otherwise would not have reason to start itself.