rekxu83

Who on this thread is looking at Cincinnati in a negative light? The Carew Tower is amazing, nobody is arguing that, but I do think it's useful to talk about how it was scaled back. As has been mentioned before, there are striking similarities in both the projects and external environment between QCS and Carew. The economy is definitely not anywhere close to what it was in 1930, but I would be surprised if the contractor/architects aren't at least beginning to look for ways to cut costs. What if Great American goes the way of AIG? Do you still build it? What if Western Southern tanks? WHO would continue to build it? These are questions that need to be asked and back up plans need to be made just in case.

I remember hearing it was supposed to be clad in marble (granite?). Instead they used bricks to keep costs down.

From the Ohio State Profile by Brookings: "Eight of Ohio’s nine older industrial cities—all but Cincinnati—are located in “weak” metropolitan areas. Add the over 4.4 million people living in these metros in 2000 to the over 331,000 people living in Cincinnati and you have a total of nearly 4.8 million people—42 percent of the state’s total population—living in economically anemic communities, a fact that should surely alarm state leaders concerned about Ohio’s long-term competitiveness." That's some pretty grim stuff.

It has to be Mt Adams. I know its lacking in the diversity that many people look for in an urban neighborhood, but by God is it gorgeous. It's pretty much how I picture all of these urban neighborhoods when they were new: interesting architecture that's well maintained. It's extremely walkable and has a great mix of restaurants, shops and....what am I missing....oh yeah, BARS. Maybe too many bars, but I could put up with the circus 2 or 3 nights a week to be able to live in such an amazing place. It reminds me a little bit of one of those ancient Italian hill towns when I look at it from Bellevue.

That is fantastic. I'm going to send your suggestion to City Hall so they can put some positive spin on the situation.

Just took a virtual walk in the Gateway Quarter to see if Google's streetview shows any of the gated alleys, as I haven't even noticed them when I've been down there. It does, take a look at the following alleys to see what people are talking about: Doerr Alley at 12th, Rodney Alley at 12th, and Baldwin Alley at 12th (on the north side of the street, could be a private drive). They're really nothing too fancy, but they are tastefully done. I think Maximillian does have a good point, but the fact remains there are still alot of shady characters in OTR. The closing of alleys permits these areas to regenerate more quickly. In the future I would imagine they would come back down, but in the meantime I think it's a good step.

^ No not at all. That's fantastic even. Is it down Delta from the square?

Trust me I never took it that way. It's just that I had come to the conclusion that unless you were willing to shell out mega bucks, you're most likely going to have a little grit mixed into your urban experience. I wouldn't necessarily call Hyde Park, Pleasant Ridge, Oakley or Mt Lookout urban neighborhoods......I've always seen them as attractive, well planned, 1st gen suburbs (wider lots, bigger yards etc...) but I know what you mean. I've actually lived in both Mt Lookout and Hyde Park and I would have bought a house in one of those neighborhoods except I realized I didn't have $4 million to my name. Oh well... I also lived in Clifton when I was 17/18, so I'm sure you're talking about the gas light district and not the part I lived in (on Victor). First night my friends and I moved in there was a burning couch in the middle of our street, turned out to not be a regular occurence but a nice welcome to the neighborhood anyway. Bellevue attracted me b/c it has a fantastic mix of all types of demographics, plus that main street shopping ala Hyde Park, Oakley square etc...Plus low crime and a still healthy housing market.

Fair enough. Can we 'poach' Mayor Hickenlooper from Denver?

Let me ask you this, Rando. Say such an agreement was in place. Don't you think that would drastically lower the overall attractivness of Cincinnati to those businesses already in the area. I see a future of companies outgrowing their current digs, not seeing the deals in the area, and moving out altogether.

No offense taken, it definitely was/is working class but the demographics are changing rapidly. Can you give me an example of an urban neighborhood that you don't think is gritty? Other than Mt Adams of course. I just have to say that I'm discouraged by the wholesale dismissal I'm seeing of some of the most unique and fascinating urban neighborhoods in the greater Cincinnati area. BTW, when have any of us on here cared what somebody in Ft Thomas, or Hyde Park, or Blue Ash, or Mason for that matter had to say about downtown Cincinnati? You can technically call Ft Thomas a river city but it's way up on the hill and they're not called cake eaters for nothing. To the Cleveland guy, thanks for the kind words about downtown Cincinnati. I didn't think they let you guys admit stuff like that up by the lake. As for comparing it to Newport, that's like comparing downtown Cleveland to..... I don't know, Lima. Apples & Oranges.

edale I personally invite you to my house in Bellevue. We'll take a walk around (its only about one square mile) and then you can tell me if you think it's "Gritty." Cincinnati Magazine named it one of the top 10 places to live last year. If you want gritty we'll walk through Dayton or up Eastern Avenue through Covington...... Newport without the levee is roughly half trash and half amazing historical neighborhood with incredibly high house prices. I was priced out of the Newport Historical district when I was first looking for a house.

Maybe, just maybe, could it be because NKY is playing the game better? Cincinnati fought to keep the IRS building in Covington b/c they have a ton of Cincinnati workers there. I take one of the aformentioned parading TANK buses from downtown Cincy through Covington and let me tell you, it loads up w/ IRS workers downtown. TANK is in Cincy b/c Metro refuses to go into KY, and because there is a need to move people between Cincy and NKY. The airport is in Hebron b/c where in the world would they find the land in Ohio that close to the city? The more and more I read all this I'm getting the feeling that all these bad vibes are more because of perceived slights and alleged wrong-doings by KY than by anything tangible. So Newport oggled to get the sub. How is competition bad? If you think NKY is beating the pants off of Cincy (which it really isn't, again, Cincy is doing just fine) then you should be writing Mallory or your councilmen to urge them to up the ante. NKY will then do the same. Win-Win.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Throw the media out of this, I think everybody can agree that the Enquirer is a steaming pile. Have they fanned the controvsey? Sure, but who cares. Why should that immediately make you negative towards NKY? Because of your perceived notion that the Enquirer has it out for Cincy and not NKY? Give me a break. Meth Hillbilly Hell? Really? I'm not saying NKY is without problems, but that is some serious stereotyping you're engaging in. NKY has some great urban neighborhoods, have you seen the rest of Newport? Bellevue? Dayton and Covington have some legitimate problems, but CVGs Mutter Gottes and Mainstrasse neighborhoods are fine. In fact, the reason I moved to NKY was because of the quality and affordability of their urban neighborhoods. I'll give you an example from Bellevue since that's what I know. We have a few of those 'Yuppie Temples' you talk about. Harbor Green, Waters Edge. But they have had some great impacts on the neighborhood. Waters Edge, for one, has new townhomes on the street to help the development blend into the neighborhood. Harbor Green has the commercial building that has been lampooned (and probably correctly) for being off the street and having the Urban Active entrance on the back, but guess what? I now have a gym that takes me 4 minutes to walk to. Those yuppies are helping to keep in business the multiple art galleries, bistros/restaurants, and bakeries that make Bellevue awesome for the rest of us as well. Get off your high horse bud.

Well you did say you had "negative feelings" and were "bitter," usually people aren't happy with something when they use those phrases. But you're right, you didn't say you were mad at the entire NKY region, I was just taking this post along with several others by yourself on this topic where you had expressed similar negative feelings and bitterness. This seems like such an subjective thing, developments being complimentary. I agree there is obviously no regional planning going on, but this is an instance where I think the free market and seperate governments are doing an OK job. I'll ask this point again, what specific projects, on either side of the river, have done irreparable harm to the other side? I'm not talking about, say for instance, the start of the banks possibly derailing the Ovation. But where planning by one side significantly decreased the investment in, or the quality of life on the other. I know you don't want that mentality. I'm questioning the very existence of such a mentality in the real world, outside of this board. I think we have a lot of passionate people who see new developments in NKY as, at the worst, threats to Cincinnati, and at the best, stealing development dollars from where they think they could be spent better - in Cincinnati. New projects are always over-hyped, but you simply have to judge what you're left with. I don't necessarily like Southshore, I hate how it has literally turned its back on KY and focused on the riverfront, but that's only natural, people pay for views of Cincy, not of the 471 exit ramp. What I'm trying to say is that people tend to immediately criticize any new developments in NKY while gratuitously praising development in Cincinnati. The bias was very plain from the day I started reading these boards, and I understand this is UrbanOhio and not UrbanKentucky, but it gets overwhelming at times. I think it's unwarranted.

Rando, I just don't see it. You can be mad at Bill Butler all you want, in fact I think 100% of the people who meet him, read about him, or hear him speak get mad at him. But you don't have to be mad at the entire region. I don't see it as NKY vs Cincy as far as development goes. Maybe I'm naive, but development on both sides of the river compliment each other. Maybe not directly in a "you build one hotel, then I'll build an attraction, then you build some apartments, and then I'll build some retail" way; sure they're competing but overall everybody seems to be doing well. Do you really think that if both the Banks and Ovation get built that one or the other will 'win' and the other will cease to exist? No, they'll both do fine and we'll have that much more population living in the core. I'm honestly trying to understand this 'Us vs Them' mentality that many on this board take. Let's root for everything happening in the core, b/c w/ out NKY, Cincy is really only half a city. If people are so worried about NKY stealing Cincinnati companies/jobs then those same Cincinnati residents need to be lobbying city hall to make Cincy more competitive with the river cities. BTW, I think Cincinnati is doing just fine, thankyou. I fail to see how any NKY developments have done irreperable harm to Cincinnati or vice versa for that matter. I get geeked at every project that's announced or started on both sides of the river b/c I know that with each new project, our core is being strengthened. And along w/ that comes an increase in the value of my property.

SNAP!

Who says Yuppies aren't hip? Just because they're not part of 'alternative' culture? I'd say the fact that they're interested in living in an urban environment makes them hipper than 99% of the young professionals living in the rest of the Cincy metro. Of course I probably fit the YP stereotype so this could just be blantant denial on my part of how 'un-hip' I actually am... :|

In all seriousness, I believe what we're seeing is the beginning of, and is nothing different than, what one can see across Europe today - a disproportionate amount of the poor scattered around the city in outlying suburbs. We are witnessing the end of the American dream of suburbia and the car dependent lifestyle.

Somebody forgot to bring their sense of humor with them today. :-) I'll issue a blanket apology to any low income people or apologist liberals I might have offended with my misguided attempt at stereotypical humor. For the record, your honor, I'd like to note that I live in a transitioning neighborhood and though I am not low income I was raised by a single mother who was. I am also an apologist liberal.

The way I see it, we have 4 options: 1.) Make sure you live in a rich enough suburb to keep them out - I think this will only work for maybe 6 or 7 suburbs in the area 2.) Deal with it. Quit working, buy a sweet tv and satellite and stop cutting your grass to fit in. 3.) Keep moving farther and farther out until you're driving 2 hours to work and gas yourself into bankruptcy. 4.) Move back into the core or 1st generation burbs and enjoy the sweet life The choice is yours

There's extensive threads on it already, but in a nutshell, its a mixed use development in Newport, KY - right across the river from downtown Cincinnati. The city leveled a bunch of subsidized housing over a year ago and the site is still sitting there empty, its right next to the Newport on the Levee development if you're famliar with that.

It's actually up river, and it starts roughly where Theodore Berry Friendship Park ends. I would consider it as part of the urban core, it has more in common w/ an urban neighborhood than it does with a traditional suburb. In any case, this is a great synopsis and just confirms my faith in Cincinnati.

Good luck to Griffey, I hope he gets a ring finally. I'll be rooting for the ChiSox if/when they make the playoffs. No way the Reds move Phillips to SS. He's a gold glove 2B, why mess w/ success? Reds should lock Dunn up to a long term (4/5 years would be ideal) deal.

Are you comparing NKY to Iraq? :wink: I thought I saw a TANK bus get taken out by an IED the other day....