Nick Spencer

Yeah, of course you are. I know of a great building in Northside that's about to go on the market, a very nice investment in a neighborhood that's getting cooler by the day. The building has a successful paying tenant that can more than cover your mortgage costs. That right, 3929 Spring Grove Ave. in Northside, the property that is home to alchemize, is entertaining offers. This does not mean anything is happening to alchemize-- we're not closing or anything like that. We're only looking for a property buyer that will keep alchemize on as a tenant. We're willing to pay a very generous rent, and can secure our lease. The previous property owner is moving out of state, and is therefore looking to sell their investments here in town. Just message me if you're into that sort of thing, or could be. I'll fill you in on the rest of the details. This is a truly great investment, lots of money has been put into the place over the last year, and its been appraised very high. So get on this, all you real estate buyers! Oh, and hey-- check out this amazing front fold story in today's Enquirer about alchemize and Girls & Boys: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070320/LIFE/703200313/1086

Brutus: Wow... that is a really good point. Seriously, that hadn't occurred to me. Great legal advice. We'll likely go non-smoking at the start of the next business week. Northside Tavern and The Comet went non-smoking, so that takes a lot of the pressure off of us. So, all you smokers, come on out tonight, this will be your last chance.

As a bar owner who voted for the ban and can't wait for it to go into effect, let me tell you this.. We're not enforcing it until they enforce it. And I expect most bars will do the same. Otherwise, customers are going to get angry, because they now know they are no penalties. It sucks, and its only going to make the new start date even harder. That having been say, this thing will be a lot easier to enforce in May, when its not freezing outside the first weekend you can't smoke indoors.

Yeah, I guess all of us bar owners down there were terribly inept. Or maybe its just me, right? Whatever. The fact is, you're a realtor, and its basically your job to gloss this stuff over and put a happy face on it. You were on here months ago saying the exact same things, and nothing happened. I think the places that serve food won't be going anywhere (Cooper's, Courtyard, Kaldi's). But Neon's is up for sale and they want out bad. No one knows how much longer Bob will be in Pitiful's, that's been up in the air for over a year now-- though I think the right kind of bar can do well in that spot, just because its a nicer, safer stretch. BTW, The Lab really brought the WIZ crowd down to Main in the first place. Urban Cocktails and all... And are freakin kidding about The Exchange?!! Wow, those bullet holes in the door glass don't tip anyone off, do they? And we all know that Ghetto Bar moving into Purgatory is gonna make things even tougher. Reggaeton is a bad, bad, bad idea down there. Its not that I'm bitter, like you're trying to infer. I mean, things worked out really well for me. I think its funny how you try to spin my complaints as somehow related to my 'failure', when I'm the one who got to move up. Here's the problem: you're trying to just get another wave of optimistic suckers to take a chance on that district. And I'm telling you that's a sure fire way to lose a lot of people's money. The general populace of even the city are terrified to hang out down there. Between the panhandlers, car burglars, and gangster patrons of Exchange/Dream, its an absolutely terrible place to hang out on a given Saturday night. Weedrose, I think North Main is a great success story. As for what used to be the entertainment district, I think its better if it mostly vanishes at this point. A good example of why is the Phat Tuesday shooting. A fight breaks out at Japps, guys start shooting at each other. They end up over at 13th and Clay, shooting it out next to a bunch of condos. You're only going to see more of that. The neighborhood should be cleaned up a LOT more before nightclubs get back in the mix. Because right now, the average bar customer has completely written off that district in favor of Newport, Mt. Adams, or Northside, depending on their tastes. So the owner will be looking at losing money or bringing in a different crowd, and we've seen what that means. Let it sit for a few years, really put the hurt on Schneider, Stough, and Lenhart. Maybe they'll put the buildings up for sale. And Michael, I love that you think, after how many people he's burned, that you're gonna be the guy that outsmarts Bob on this stuff. Two points for confidence, I guess.

What's best for this city isn't another generation of bar owners losing their asses on Main Street. The Purgatory space is being filled, that's true. By a bar that is coming out of the gate looking to attract that same crowd that Bob Schneider was complaining about. That new tenant will result in more fights, shootings, violence, and disruption in the district. Count on it. Its kind of like saying its good news that Jump has a potential tenant, Club Ritz. As for the others: haven't we been in final lease negotiations on those spaces for months? That's all I ever hear. You talk to me when doors are opening. Probably ain't gonna happen, and if it does, I'll guarantee you they signed a lease that starts low, but through option and phases, will eventually screw them. That's what these guys do, they're far too greedy. If we're going to get new bars in this city, I'd prefer for them to be in places where they can succeed and grow, not where they shut down every couple years because they're getting hit from both ends-- crime and violence driving away customers, and landlords bleeding them dry for money. Look at the turnover in Mt. Adams or Northside. There just isn't much. There's a reason for that. So please, spare me the 'final lease negotiations' and 'potential tenants'. I'll throw them right on the list with Mercer Commons, the fifth and race high rise, The Banks, and The Next Hotel. No nightclub on Main that refused to go gangster is still around. So this isn't about not working out for me. Hell, it worked great for me, actually. I got to move my business and start seeing real numbers, which is a much better situations than most of the others. And still the question remains: why would any business owner decide to put a bar on Main Street, when they can go elsewhere and pay less to make more?

Just to make the point a bit more succinct: why would anyone in their right mind own a bar on Main Street when they can own a bar pretty much anywhere else in the city, and pay less to make more? The only reason is civic interest and a desire to improve that neighborhood. But most folks can only stand to lose money for so long.

Sigh. Michael, I'd recommend getting your information on JHall from somebody other than Bob Schneider. JHall is paying slightly more when you look at rent plus common space charges. Their business, last I heard, was up around 400 percent. That's nothing short of spectacular. If you're trying to argue that those bar spaces are anything less than ridiculously overpriced at 10 a square, well, good luck to you. I think the number of vacancies speaks for itself. And I don't even get your argument: if the Levee did give Tony a cheaper deal, what would THAT say about Schneider & Company's greed? Its great to say that Bob reduced JHall's rent by 1k. However, clearly none of the bars were making enough in revenue to pay their bills, that's a fact. The property owners' greed shut the district down, and now a place like Purgatory (never exactly my scene, but...) is being replaced by the umpteenth gangster/ gangster wannabe bar. You keep saying these spaces are filling, all this new stuff is coming, but I never see it. I get that's your job, but come on. Here's my personal example. My rent is less than half what it was in OTR, and my revenue is up about 40 percent. You do the math.

Just take the steps up. Its very walkable.

Its really embarassing when its hard to get to two of the Midpoint venues because there's a SWAT team lined up around the block due to a murder next door. Its downright humiliating, actually. People can try to diminish it all they want, but crime in this town is way out of hand. Its not just about numbers-- its about people's day to day experience. A friend of mine just got mgged at gunpoint in Northside last week, then a pizza driver had the same thing happen a few minutes away. MPMF was still plagued by the same crackheads and troublemakers it always has, bothering anyone in sight. Most depressing realization of the weekend: even the cabbies have given up on the entertainment district. Sad.

See, I never had a negative experience at any of the three. I really liked Bella, I'm not really in Simone's part of town much, and Redfish had some good happy hour stuff. But, to each their own, I guess...

Yeah, it kills me when people are like "just pay the bills." Well, they're probably not paying them because they don't have it. In the case of Bella at least, that likely has to do with lack of consistent business. People always think these businesses run surpluses, when most of them never make a dime and burn through their investments then close. Downtown is a very tough environment for a bar or restaurant right now, like it or not. The foot traffic just isn't there, and the residential base isn't big enough yet. The area needs a big time shot in the arm, something that changes perceptions of the area, and draws people back down. Louisville did that with Fourth Street Live, at least sort of. Obviously, the stadiums are in the wrong place, not even having a chance at a casino hurts... there's just not enough reasons to make the trip down there right now. And safety obviously, while real crime isn't that high down in the CBD, there are a lot of people hanging out down there who seem to not know how to act in public. Most people don't want to spend their free time around that nonsense.

That's wierd... I could swear there's an editorial in CityBeat this week that says I'm too POSITIVE about Cincinnati. The time of moderates is most definitely not now, I guess. I think the strange thing to do is talk about "baggage." The City screwed us, plain and simple. Don't blame the event for calling attention to it, blame the city for being so freakin' inept. City Hall is the albatross around the neck of an otherwise good community. Its sad but true. They are so spectacularly incompetent, they make it hard on anyone trying to do most anything, including, ironically enough, Scribble Jam, who have certainly complained about the city in the past. To me, its just misdirected aggression. Activist after activist, business owner after business owner, make the same complaint about the city. Blaming THEM, instead of the city, seems strange to me.

Monte: Not to brag or anything, but there aren't many events in Cincy that have generated the kind of positive national media attention Des got, especially from younger skewing outlets like Rolling Stone, Mtv, Spin, and Pitchfork. Soooo... I think, like a lot of Cincinnatians, you may not be getting what a 'major coup' Desdemona was. I think it said it all that day Rolling Stone wrote up Des AND the T.I. shooting in the same article. Its was a very nice contrast.

Ha ha... you know, I had never really looked at that way, but I'll put it a bit differently: When we begged for police to handle issues like drug dealing, shootings, car break-ins, and prostitution in the city's most dangerous neighborhood, we are told they can't assign police to the area and that they are terribly short-staffed. But when we do a GATED, admission-fee event on the riverfront, we suddenly have 16 OFFICERS to spare, to stand around bored. Apparently, indie kids are a serious safety risk and must be monitored closely. Hmmmm... I guess the issue isn't staffing, its who pays for it. Typical City Hall.

Just to keep everyone in the loop over here... alchemize: The BIG Announcement First off, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who came out to the big alchemize Farewell Party, and especially to Puck for doing such a great job organizing it. The support many of you have shown for alchemize is really moving, and its something I know I'll personally never forget. Now, as everyone probably knows by now, alchemize has been looking for a new home for months, and especially these last few weeks since the doors were closed in Over-the-Rhine. Well, I am thrilled to announcement that we have, OFFICIALLY, found that new home. The space is in an amazing location that I know will make many of you very, very happy. Its a building loaded with potential that will just keep growing over time. I could not be more excited about where we've ended up, and I really hope you'll love it as much as I already do. So where is it? We'll be officially revealing the new location and opening date this Thursday at the Of Montreal show at The Madison Theatre-- so do not miss it! I can't wait to tell you all... I promise, this news will not disappoint. But I didn't want to wait to tell you that we do in fact have the deal done, because I know plenty of people have been paying close attention to what happens. Thank you again for all your support during this time of change. The rumors were flying like crazy and stuff was changing daily, but you stuck by us. The new alchemize will continue to offer that special experience you can't find anywhere else, with the same heart and energy we've been blessed to have from the start. Its a new beginning for us, and I hope you'll come along. See you Thursday for the big announcement!! For more info on Thursday's Of Montreal show, click here: http://woxy.com/boards/showthread.php?t=39850

OTR, like most urban areas, saw condo construction in 2002-2005, during the housing boom. It was pretty modest, but its been hyped up like crazy. Its not really that many buildings... I think we sold what, 60 condos last year in the "Greater Downtown" area? Come on. On top of that, most developers will tell you they ended up selling for cost, which means nobody made any money, which doesn't exactly encourage more investment. A LOT of units are sitting unsold. Its a soft, weak market that gets talked about like its this spectacular renaissance of downtown living. Please. Its slowing down now, due to too many developers getting burned and too many units on the market. Not a whole lot of new announcements out there-- The McAlpin and Parker Flats downtown, and the Vine Street stuff that's going to need heavy subsidy from 3CDC and the city, especially if Gateway is any indication (at this point, that's not a slow start, its a crash). The cost of starting a business in Covington is very low. I haven't found a permit yet that isn't cheaper on that side of the river. Liquor Licenses are the HUGE one. Serve food, and you get it for free in KY. If not, you get them as low as 10k. In Ohio? 30k. Sooo... that's a pretty big difference. Most people don't know the nightmare that business owners in the city deal with. Seriously, there's a reason almost all business owners in the city complain-- we get treated really, really badly. I just happen to be one that posts on the internet, but most will tell you the same things. Look, I know people get tired of hearing me complain about this stuff. But I just keep trying to hammer home this point: investment in OTR is extremely dangerous (in many ways), and will be UNTIL City Hall and the powers that be decide to clean up the area. Until then, its not going to turn around. They could change everything in one year, but they don't have the will or the guts. And as a result, people will continue to come down there and get burned, despite their obvious good intentions and hard work.

John-- A few points I would make: 1) The bars in the Main Street District would almost all have loved to be open more hours, mine included. But every time it was tried, it failed. Why? There's not a market for it. Not enough residents and foot traffic. 2) Some of your comments betray personal preference, rather than some kind of market reality. I have a hard time imagining any business being "crowded out" of OTR. And some of us find bars to be "useful" businesses. We're called young people, and we like to drink on occasion. I lived above a bar once, and I loved it. Again, you need to think like an 18-34 year old here, because that's who frequent bars. I think some people on here may have phased out of the bar scene, and have since lost appreciation for entertainment districts and their benefits. 3) The bars didn't drive up rents on anyone. The North Main Storefronts are still essentially free. 4) The bar buildings on Main are mostly offices upstairs-- they housed Digital Rhine back in the day. They are not, I repeat NOT, goign to be converted into housing. Stough and Bob Schneider will not do it, period. Not to mention the Center City housing market is really soft right now, period. 5) Finally, everyone keeps talking about these vacant spaces and how all these great "useful" businesses are gonna move in up there, even though we still have tons of open storefronts everywhere else in OTR. Keep dreaming. I know these property owners, and they have the will and means to just sit on these properties. They will not convert them, I can promise you that. They won't put them up for sale. And no business besides a bar can afford those rents in a market like OTR. So, please, save the grocery store dream for somewhere else-- you're better off trying to get in for free at one of the condo buildings. The entertainment district is going to sit empty for years unless new bars come in. Mark my words on that, I'm sure of it. Again, I know these property owners. Here's what I know: before the riots, we had a bustling district that, like it or not, brought thousands of people down to OTR to spend money every weekend. And now we don't.

Gaslight: If you knew how many times a customer had been attacked physically, and the police didn't respond within 30 minutes, maybe you'd get it. And you have no idea what you're talking about on the police thing. Most bars CAN'T GET OFFICERS TO SIGN UP FOR MAIN STREET DETAILS. The officers don't want to do them-- they can get the overtime dollars a million other, easier ways. Finally, I really doubt the problem is my business plan. After all, I'm one of close to a dozen bars vacating the area. But then, I guess we're all just bad at running our businesses... even though we seem to make so much more money when we move...

In some instances, sure. But I don't think that's the case with Main Street and OTR. I think that some of the bars, in desperation of making more money, let in bad crowds. But no, on the whole, I don't believe for a second that the entertainment district's collapse with benefit OTR. Because a) the condo/gallery movement is spectacularly overstated in terms of numbers and impact 2) the condo/gallery movement wasn't being impeded by the entertainment and 3) the buildings on the south of Main will not be converted, they will sit empty and it will become a drug hotspot. The owners of those buildings simply will not turn them into anything else, I know that firsthand. I do think the entertainment district, and what it did, is severely underappreciated. For quite a while, it was one of the few things bringing people downtown in the evenings. We're now left with the embarassment of being just about the only city our size without a real entertainment district in our center city-- a growing testament to how hollowed out our core has become. I find that pretty humiliating. But if there's something I've learned about Cincy, its that they love a winner and are brutal to the losers and/or the unhappy. When Main Street was hopping, everyone loved it. But when it hit hard times with the riots, instead of working to save it, people turned on it. Kinda sad, in my opinion. I find the whole "Well, who needs them anyway" stuff to be very indicative of the problem this town has.

I agree with all of that (lived in STL for like a year). I guess I just think more emphasis should be placed on cleaning the junk out of the neighborhood than this-- nightclubs aren't big anymore (not true at all) stuff. Those buildings will likely be sitting empty for a long, long time, and that will create more crime on the south end of Main in OTR. That, in turn, will have a negative impact on North Main. Somewhere, we've been over this before. Keep in mind, its not just bars closing. There are almost no businesses in OTR paying market rate rents. That's really bad. And it will continue like that until we see some more policing, some tougher penalties against slum lords, a relocation of these social services, and more City/3CDC investment in the area.

I see it more as two struggling cities that are too sprawled out and don't have enough young people to support nightclubs. There isn't a very big market for restaurants in OTR-- not enough customers or foot traffic at this time. But honestly, Washington Ave. is, on the whole, in stronger shape than Main Street, especially these days.

I only know of two bars planning to STAY on Main Street. The closures are just starting.

David: I think that area could be turned into an entertainment district for sure, and it would be nice with the Duke Center there and all that parking. However, to do that, you'd need a developer to come in, buy all the buildings, and convert them into bar spaces. That's the most likely path. Believe me, if I had the money to do that, I would. This was a business decision, based on cold, hard numbers. That's really all there is to it.

And Rando, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong here. I called Covington and expressed some interest in moving over there. they followed up, helping me locate sites and navigating the process. If they hadn't, I'd probably just be closed instead of moving. I wouldn't have stayed in OTR, and I couldn't find a spot in the city. Businesses are leaving Cincinnati because its a terrible place to do business in-- the officials are lazy, difficult, and charge way too much. Covington can't help it Cincy is so inept at this stuff. What are they supposed to do? Block any Cincy business from crossing the river? We do that to survive, not out of spite.

Yeah, I take some offense to that. First off, you weren't the one who suffered through two years of high crime, and the major negative impact it had on business. I've invested as much as anyone in making OTR a great place again, but I can only sustain so much financially. A business needs customers and money to run, and despite having a strong brand, our location was a huge deterrent. We lost regulars and big tabs to car break-ins and muggings nearly every week. So to smugly act like we deserve scorn for leaving OTR, well, I find that really classy. Finally, if folks are wondering why we didn't stay in the city, I'd say two things: we couldn't find a spot that made sense, and the cost of doing business in Ohio as a bar is much higher. Compound this with Covington's overall helpfulness (reflected everywhere except in the paper), and the decision was practically made for us. We would've loved to be in the Ludlow Garage-- we tried, don't blame me, blame the property owner for making a mess of the building. We looked at the Artists Warehouse space in Northside, but with no HVAC or bathrooms, it just wasn't realistic. We even looked at Lava downtown, but the building is just too damn expensive. So its not like I didn't try. But in Cincy, no one was working with me, and we're losing money, so what are you going to do? But yeah, anything bad that happens here is definitely karma. God knows how little I've done to try and help the city of Cincinnati. Maybe you should rethink where you so cavalierly toss the blame around.