Nick Spencer

Cincy1: I think this region's loss of young, creative talent workers is pretty well documented. Whether or not Butler/Clermont/Warren/No. Ky. is a subject of some debate, but Hamilton County lost them at a pace unmatched in the country. That's the audience most bars/clubs/galleries/hip shops in the city depend on. I find it funny the level of denial many Cincinnatians are living in, including our former Mayor: Most young people are desperate to get out of this city, and plenty do. You're right that Cincinnati's bar scene has always been relatively tasteless and uninspired. But in the Short Vine days, there was certainly a much stronger local/original/indie scene than there is now. Not just in terms of number of bars... the crowds for bands were much bigger. In every case, the city has not been willing to devote dollars to its entertainment districts, or listen to business owners' needs. Its pathetic.

Ha... police substations. What a crock. Know why? Never a police officer to be found in them. The CPD hates them, so they sit empty and yeah, get vandalized. BTW, I called about a prostitute tonight and an officer didn't show up for over an hour. Its safe to say those sweeps are officially over, I guess.

Mt. Adams has extremely limited appeal as a destination. And it can't grow-- the neighborhood can barely stand the bars it has now. There are no bars for original live music. Nothing special really, just East Side hang-out bars for the frat and recent-frat crowd. Its beautiful aesthetically, but hardly an entertainment district for everyone. I like going up there once in a while, but God forbid that becomes the primary option for all of Cincinnati. Sure, people age out of the bar scene. But we're not replacing them with them new young faces. Its not like there's some new entertainment district the kids are going to. The bar scene is shrinking, period. And if you're into something a little more... i dunno... non-meat market/hookup clubs, your choices are getting really piss-poor. There's alchemize and Southgate for some events, obviously, but most nights people are hanging out in Northside in bars the size of my living room. Not exactly packed to the walls these days are we? And at these bars, the general mode of conversation seems to be, why does Cincinnati suck so much? Now before anyone gets mad at me for saying that, know that its true. Not a week goes by that at least one regular at my bar comes up to me and tells me they're leaving town. And you can say, well, stick around, make it better. But you know? I tried that, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Great way to waste your time. Because most people in positions of influence don't want to hear from you, don't want to change, and don't get it. And they never will. This is just not a good place to be, its a struggling city that's got its worst days in front of it, and I see NOTHING that tells me otherwise. You have an entrenched power structure that is spectacularly incompetent, and there is no alternative. For proof, see my own 17th and 21st place finishes in Council races. Can't raise money unless you're in that ever-dwindling circle, I don't care what your ideas are. Our demographics are changing? Nice way to put it. But in case anyone missed the census, the entire region is actually hemorraghing young people with college degrees. The suburbs don't have it as bad, but its still pretty terrible. There is an ever-dwindling market for bars, and anything that skews younger/cooler in this town. There is no silver lining here. Its a flat out pathetic sign that this city is dying. That its getting older, lamer, more suburban, less safe, and more pathetic.

Michael has the right approach. The entertainment district and the gallery were both founded around the same time, with the goal of bringing people TO Over-the-Rhine. The reality is that the only businesses the residential base of OTR will support are carryouts and check cashers. The market rate population is still tiny. And it could've worked. But the city NEVER put enough cops down here, they never cracked down on panhandlers and social services, and too many people came down, got bothered by cracked out idiots, and now they won't come back. A real arts and entertainment district would have three times as many assigned cops. But the city always wants something for nothing, they don't support small businesses or downtown residents, and now they're just shrugging as entrepreneurs lose thousands of dollars, pointing at some Fountain Square project as the answer to everything, despite having practically no tenants named and certainly nothing that comes close to an entertainment district. We all got hung out to dry down here, and I'm furious about it. These idiots should be run out of town for what they've done (or failed to do when it was within their power). What a joke.

Finally, I would also say that condo boom happened on Main because the entertainment district was there-- that's what made Main feasible for other kinds of investment down the road. Bar scenes don't come and go in Cincinnati-- they just go. This ain't New York. There is no "new" Main Street anywhere, and Short Vine is gone. Its pretty ridiculous. You could say Newport on the Levee is the new place to go, but that's mostly an older crowd and families. Somebody asked me where all the people who went to the Main Street bars back in the 95-2001. I say they're going to bars in whatever city they moved to.

Cramer: North Main is a nicer area than any other part of OTR in my opinion, and the only place retail could potentially take hold. But the fact is, most of the buildings either give away the storefronts for now, or have percentage deals. A handful charge really low rents ($200-400). That alone should speak to the weakness of the market. And even with all that, those storefront businesses struggle to stay open. There's just not enough neighborhood, and we actually have less construction going on this summer than the last couple years. Most of the bar spaces are just too big for retail. They could never convert to residential up top, and the office attempts like Digital Rhine failed as well. A place like Melt exists because the market is there for it in Northside. A lot of people with decent spending money live in Clifton and Northside, and people visit the area. Not true of OTR right now. Starting a place like Melt takes a lot of startup cash and consistent cash flow, and OTR doesn't provide that. Finally, I'd say the suits are worlds away from getting it. They're obsessed with the 3CDC target areas to the detriment of everywhere else. Their development tastes skew older. The fact is, we're losing young creative talent workers at the fastest rate in the country, and they apparently don't care much. I mean, they certainly don't have any plans for an entertainment district, and last time I checked, that's pretty important to young people. I agree that the programming at many Main Street bars was pretty weak, but that's any entertainment district. The fact is, they didn't get rid of the shelters.

I'm sorry, I know I'll sound like I'm jumping down your throat when I say this, but people express similar sentiments all the time, and it drives me crazy. Main Street has been abandoned totally because of this Fountain Square thing. The Square is not, and will not, be an entertainment district. It is shaping up to be a playground for the 3CDC board, with stuffy restaurants, and older-skewing retailers like Jos. A Bank. They have not announced one tenant that would be attractive to a younger, bar-going crowd. And this OTR is evolving stuff... sorry, that's not how it works. The neighborhood can't support eateries, except the ones that cater to the bar crowds. There aren't enough residents. If I installed a kitchen, I'd be out of business in a month. There's no money in it. Please don't try to put a happy face on this. In addition to the ones Mark named, I can add another, but I'll let them do it, not me. This was a spectacular failure on the part of our city leadership, and yeah, Fountain Square hurt it a lot. This city will soon be the only one its size in the country without a downtown entertainment district. What a joke.

Except that... One major reason to push for casinos is the increase in Convention business. There are plenty of organizations out there who weigh casinos/nightlife when choosing a convention spot. That's the area of benefit not available to Lawrenceburg or most areas of Kentucky.

Yikes... then I realize Kendall has already posted on it below-- sorry!

I know I don't normally post on here (though I do read these boards regularly), but I thought you all would want to see this-- obviously a real threat to our city's urban core: [posted above article]