Civvik

I am struggling to connect the Mahogany's issues with the streetcar issue in any way...

Wait, express wouldn't work. The express couldn't get around the locals without another track.

I see. So how would that work, ideally? Would you have one physical line but a few different operational segments that shuttled back and forth? With maybe an express route during rush hour?

That's 5 1/2 miles one way. Is that within the extent of what modern streetcars are doing? Not that the vehicle can't handle it, but such a fine resolution in terms of stops...

Northside seems like it would be pushing the limits of streetcar and getting into light rail territory.

LOL I thought it was under budget and ahead of schedule?

I think the big problem here is we were all sold on a rendering that was ridiculously well designed, made the banks look like an actual historic urban neighborhood. Unfortunately said rendering was just a basic concept and had no bearing on reality (probably was used in part to sell the stadium on the riverfront instead of at Broadway Commons) As a result people are hyper critical and really disappointed. I disagree. The Banks phase 1 is some of the worst urban architecture in the country.

That should satisfy the review board.

Trust me, if there were an actual garage there it wouldn't be such a mystery. But it's not. It's 2 levels, and really small. It's basically a fancy parking lot. I just can't believe people look at it and think "well, it's the highest and best use right now." Adjusting for everything I can think of, including property tax policy, revenue on the existing use, the freeway, blocking the view of the 50 year old mid-rise behind it, etc, etc, my spidey sense is still left wondering about that property. Oh well. I guess nobody outside of AFG really knows, which is fine. I mean, I don't know either.

Class B office space, even with a view, is irrelevant to the class A office market. Especially with a view. Also, two levels of car park = empty use in a CBD. 1 - That is why 309 Vine is not really an option but was just floated out there as large enough to accommodate them. 2 - 2 levels of park is not empty use. It may be in your opinion, but you do not own the property and to the owner, it is not empty use. Given that the owner owns the tower behind it, they do not have incentive to develop something that would block the view of their other tower, especially since the parking revenues they generate from that place are pretty strong. Maybe if it were more than 2 levels, but it isn't. It's like 180 spaces on that corner, and that's paying a valet to double-park them. Queen City Square sits on 2,250 parking spaces. So parking revenue couldn't really be it. Also, your assertion that they would be blocking their older tower kind of treats it like a liability, don't you think? I don't think that developers think that way. I think they would readily block 20 stories of Class B to get 50 stories of new Class A. First I do not disagree with you that it is not the highest and best use of the place, but I do not own the property so my opinion about it (like yours) is pretty irrelevant in the matter. As far as developing the property into a tower, who knows what their priorities are and risk threshold. They have owned the block for a long time and are content with the cash flows it throws off. If they developed it, it could do much better but they would have to take on additional risk to do so, second, they may have other higher better projects elsewhere where they choose to devote that capital. I like everyone would love to see a 50 story high rise there but until AFG decides they want one there or they want to sell the property, their opinion is the only one that matters. That's kind of the crux of the whole question, though. I just wonder what is their opinion. I think there is more to it than just blocking the other building and getting revenue from a little parking lot.

Class B office space, even with a view, is irrelevant to the class A office market. Especially with a view. Also, two levels of car park = empty use in a CBD. 1 - That is why 309 Vine is not really an option but was just floated out there as large enough to accommodate them. 2 - 2 levels of park is not empty use. It may be in your opinion, but you do not own the property and to the owner, it is not empty use. Given that the owner owns the tower behind it, they do not have incentive to develop something that would block the view of their other tower, especially since the parking revenues they generate from that place are pretty strong. Maybe if it were more than 2 levels, but it isn't. It's like 180 spaces on that corner, and that's paying a valet to double-park them. Queen City Square sits on 2,250 parking spaces. So parking revenue couldn't really be it. Also, your assertion that they would be blocking their older tower kind of treats it like a liability, don't you think? I don't think that developers think that way. I think they would readily block 20 stories of Class B to get 50 stories of new Class A.

Class B office space, even with a view, is irrelevant to the class A office market. Especially with a view. Also, two levels of car park = empty use in a CBD.

When I think of Mahogany's succeeding I think of Wishbone in Chicago. Southern food, but something that appeals to everyone. Honestly, I think The Eagle walked away with that one for now. I think part of the problem is that The Banks is SO high profile. There was obviously a lot of community pressure to put something that represented black Cincinnati on the city's new front door, otherwise the city would not have gone out on such a limb for a small business. But you cannot force something like a restaurant. It has to grow organically out of the community. I think that actually underscores a problem with The Banks in general: What kind of neighborhood is it? What kind of retail mix should it have? Nobody knows. These things take time to evolve.

Does anyone know why exactly the block at Vine and 3rd, probably the most prominent location on the skyline, just sits empty decade after decade?

I can't think of any other local restaurants in OTR or The Banks recently that have been seized in this manner. Which is why I must conclude, based on my limited information, that some party or parties does not want her to succeed, or it's just a spectacular, poorly managed flop. Even ignoring the media scrutiny, this is getting pretty ridiculous.

This past weekend a group of us ate and drank our way through OTR and then stayed the night downtown. We walked from Fountain Square to Rhinegeist, and let me tell you, in 90 degree weather it was miserable. We had done this "eat our way through OTR" tour twice before earlier in the summer and it was an absolute joy. But Cincinnati in the summer and winter is usually NOT an absolute joy. God as my witness, it was so muggy we would have ridden a donkey from Findlay Market to Gateway Quarter. A streetcar would have been a godsend. We wouldn't even have cared how long it took. It's about the amenity, and the experience, and making the whole urban core feel more like, I don't know, luxurious.

Well at this point it's only one of two things: Someone doesn't want her there, or it's a failed business. At least at this point we can stop hand-wringing about why or how this place has had so much trouble, and that maybe "its just been a string of bad luck."

I guess I'm just a cynic. I don't really believe white conservatives in HamCo will vote for a black guy from the city who used to be a liberal. Streetcar or no streetcar. It's not that he couldn't spin a good story, I just think any opponent running against him will destroy that story.

Wasn't the point of connecting uptown to downtown first being that these were the two biggest job centers, and connecting them as the first phase(s) created both the highest demand for development along the route and created the strongest backbone upon which future lines would connect?

When the streetcar is finished and everyone starts to like it, will he change his tune (probably) and will his voter base stay with him? To be honest, with the streetcar, there's never going to be a time when "everybody" likes it. Just like OTR development, there are plenty of people who don't like what's happening. A majority does, but MANY people think it's a huge waste of money. There will still be people in Cincy, and especially in Hamilton County, who think the Streetcar is a huge waste of money no matter what happens along the line. They will be people who live far from downtown and work far from downtown and don't come downtown. They will dislike it no matter what, and they will love Smitherman still. he won't change his tune. He will play to the people who don't like it forever. Yeah, but they don't really matter, because those people probably don't live in the city or vote for people like Smitherman anyhow.

When the streetcar is finished and everyone starts to like it, will he change his tune (probably) and will his voter base stay with him? I actually went back and looked at his election history, but the only thing I really concluded is that total votes cast for everybody has just been falling as the population shrinks in the city. For instance, Amy Murray got on council this time with a number of votes that would put her in 18th place 20 years ago. I think with that kind of demographic volatility from election to election, it's kind of hard to say what's going to happen to a candidate in the future.

Ah RCN! My friend helped start that paper. He's an awesome guy. I wouldn't quite say that RCN represents the sentiment of all of Northern Kentucky, it's pretty pro-urban and progressive, but it's a solid operation.

At least for me an ideal train ride is under 6 hours. That couldn't realistically be done to Atlanta with stops in large cities along the way. It's a flying kind of trip.

Do any of you shop at Saks on a regular basis? I buy my clothes at Target. :/