Civvik

I would venture to say that if there is indeed a market for rail travel, secondary modes of travel will work themselves out. Most cities have airports without mass transit. As for Cincinnati's predicament, and I do think it is an unfortunate predicament, it is perhaps encouraging to remember that downtown cores are not the only destination for travelers. Cincinnati has many destinations, and a Sharonville station would be able to serve most of them with no complementary transit.

Make this all the time, it's very easy, and orgasmic if you like goat cheese: 4 chicken breasts, skin-on Small package goat cheese 8 large basil leaves EVOO Kosher salt, pepper De-bone the chicken breasts if you can't find boneless skin-on. Form pocket under skin with your fingers and put 1/4 goat cheese package underneath, followed by two basil leaves. Rub liberally with oil, salt and pepper. Bake 35-40 minutes at 375. This is an adaptation of an Ina Garten recipe. It's simple and amazing.

And they are both apples and oranges comparisons with respect to the 3-C. I already explained why the Kentucky Cardinal is. Your other example-- The Music City Star is a commuter train. You can't compare a commuter corridor with an intercity corridor. No, what I can't accept are meaningless comparisons-- which the Kentucky Cardinal and Music City Star are. Give us a comparison that is actually comparing apples to apples. The Music City Star is somewhat comprable to Sharonville-Middletown-Dayton service on the short end. Then again so is service in North Carolina on the long end. Both are legitimate comparisons, and neither is a slam-dunk prediction, because every situation is different. But regardless of how many failed contemporary examples Sherman can come up with, one cannot ignore that 90% of intercity rail failed only a generation ago. It failed in the 70's, some clung through the 80's, some started again in the 90's and 00's. This is a continuum, and neither of you two's arbitrary distinctions on that continuum to support your differing opinions is 100% legitimate, so I hope you both will concede that.

Regardless of my opinions on 3C, this is a dismal editorial.

This is what I meant by "cohesive". I agree that Ohio's plan is comprehensive, but if it were cohesive it would withstand scrutiny and regional bickering more than this. And by Ohio's metros being "uncomfortably close" I mean that they are more economically competitive than synergistic, and are at transitional distances of 60-100 miles which makes rail attractive at the longer distance but not so much at the shorter end. For example, I think Columbus-Cleveland is probably competitive for rail, but this Cincy-Middletown-Dayton-Springfield-Columbus thing really worries me. It is absolutely true that often people don't know what's good for them, or what they want, because they are uninformed or have special prejudices. I think this is almost always true for metropolitan mass transit, and the last twenty years of data for light rail almost always exceeds projections. BUT inter-city rail is a different animal. Let me explain what I mean by that, based on my own experience planning these systems: When you sell light rail or streetcar, you are selling a whole shift in lifestyle, in the way people think about, and live in, their environment. You are selling *access* more than mobility: new land use patterns, new densities. When you sell inter-city rail, you are just selling mobility. You are just competing directly with cars and planes, and the only game in town is speed and efficiency.

I think the dialogue that has erupted in this thread since the funding announcement is showing that now that we have all stopped holding our breath for the money, this state doesn't actually have a cohesive vision for rail. We are a middle-class rustbelt state with too many medium-sized metro areas that are awkwardly close together and the two largest economies are in opposite corners of the state, with one oriented towards the great lakes region and the other towards the upland south. Practically everyone in here is going to hate me for saying this, but I really don't understand the urge to build an Ohio-based rail system. I would have rather seen all of the funds go toward a few hub systems with high-speed from the ground up, with ours based in Chicago. And I say this as a professional planner who's done plenty of work and advocacy for transit systems.

A whole thread on this at skyscrapercity: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=811198

Nice beginner's article from Wired: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/01/ff_fasttrack/

Damn, they have some fast cars in Iowa! "Urbandale, within an hour's drive from Kansas City and Minneapolis, has a lower unemployment rate than the national average. The insurance and finance industries are major employers."

If the Cincinnati-Dayton and Columbus counties were to connect with a couple more red density counties then it would almost be comparable to Chicago-Milwaukee. You do realize that the entire population of Ohio fits into Chicago-Milwaukee...

reeks?

Wait you're telling me that there has been an urban grocery thread THIS WHOLE TIME? BAD PEOPLE! BAD!

That's awesome!

Commuter Buzz: "You can not build enough lanes on Interstate 4 to take care of the problem," Senator Ben Nelson said in Orlando. "We need to go to alternative forms of transportation." Go Florida!

I'd think up some kind of retaliatory or punitive action for this person, but I'm satisfied that living in Toledo is punishment enough. I doubt he can do much to influence this matter.

I saw John Ritter outside the Pancake House in 2002.

Meh. Whatever. I grew up in Clermont County so I'm no stranger to the complexities of Appalachia, but it is certainly not on the same level as other parts of America. Neither is the lower Mississippi river region, or a lot of native American reservations, or poor parts of inner cities. Appalachia exports some very bright people and harbors a unique culture, but Jamie Oliver might as well have gone to Mongolia. America's a big place. Just because you're in America doesn't mean you're in America.

Overreact much?

^Huh?

I just love the building in the first photo, and I can't quite put my finger on why. Oh and in my morning stupor I read the title of this thread as "my bacon - part two."

Yikes! ‘Train from hell’ arrives almost a day late Passengers complain of 19-hour delay, shortage of food and water http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34769488/ns/travel-news/

Lima Shay Locomotive Moving to new home on Monday By Aubree Kaye | Friday, December 11, 2009 The City of Lima has agreed to close Metcalf Street (between Market and High Street on Monday, December 14th in order to position a crane to move the Lima Locomotive. The locomotive will be moving to it's new home inside the new Allen County Museum addition that is currently under construction. MORE: http://www.downtownlimaohio.com/news/news.asp?NewsID=50

^Do you live in Akron?

I think you could parse a category list all day long. To me, there is more than one way for a city to reveal itself. I think Atlanta is a good example of that. It is quite striking to approach it from the south and think it is one thing, only to be surprised by wave after wave of skylines poking through the hills. I suppose my categorization is less about metrics and more about impressions.