Pugu

^and even if they won't let you, you may be able to find a sublet at CSU from people who are away from CLE for the summer. Maybe CSU has a housing office or bulletin board of some sort?

Dude---What you were saying made sense. And then you said "This city will never be what it used to be." That completely undermines everything you had said until that point and ultimately agrees with simplythis, the poster you were jumping on. You're saying Cleveland can never be a great city again. I wholeheartedly disagree.

are those new river front places townhouses? or apartments--and if apts--for sale or for rent?

New $80M Hip Hop museum to open in the Bronx in 2023. "The Hip Hop Museum, to be erected in the Bronx Point development, will generate tourism and tax revenues for the Bronx and New York just as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame drives economic development in Cleveland, said the museum’s director, Rocky Bucano." https://nypost.com/2019/12/19/new-york-provides-3-5m-grant-to-help-build-hip-hop-museum-in-the-bronx/

^Looks cool--will have to check it out. Speaking of new restaurants in Ohio City---I was wondering what happened to the Ciao Bistro guy who wrote offensive things on facebook calling someone two women "Liberal White C---s". Doing some research, it looks like he opened up afterall, but the place is now closed after some mixed reviews. The last two reviews -- and the only two from 2019 were pretty bad on yelp. https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/10/25/future-of-ciao-bistro-in-ohio-city-unclear-after-facebook-comment-labels-neighbors-white-liberal-c-nts https://www.yelp.com/biz/ciao-bistro-cleveland-2?osq=Ciao+Bistro Was it the location? Bad food? Or did people boycott his place ultimately forcing him to close? Just curious.

what are they---townhouses? or apartments--and if apts--for sale or for rent?

Frontier may be announcing Cleveland-Pensacola, Florida tomorrow.

^That's great there are 3-br apts. So many projects are only Studio, 1, 2-Br---3BR's allow better density and also families with kids that are otherwise pushed into houses.

^You suburban snobs. ?

It may be bring a donut shop. then again, there isn't even a donut shop across the Justice Center right now, so......

The biggest difference---DL has great, smart management. United has the opposite.

musky--so i take it they are on side of E 185 Street vs. the other. Given your emphasis on which side (with text in bold and all CAPS), is it a really big deal--maybe for people in that part of town--for folks on the distinction between the two communities? I'm just curious as I've similar things before for that part of town, whereas on the west side people don't make such a big point between Edgewater and Lakewood if someone is talking about which side of W. 117 st something is on.

^ah I forgot about those two places. The one in 5th st. isn't open for dinner -- I remember giant portions for lunch--and I've yet to ck out the place as 21 and Euclid. There is another Indian place---fast food like on Chester by CSU--like around 24 St. but it wasn't anything to write home about.

Is the Indian place on Ontario gone? It was okay, but it was Indian if you had the need. It was between Public Square and Prospect on the east side of the street. There was a fancy indian place on Prospect around what would be E. 5, but that place closed a while ago. And given the huge popularity of Thai food, I'm surprised there isn't one Downtown. We need Thai, Jamaican, AND Indian Downtown--open for lunch and dinner.

Per capita personal income, 2018 - Ohio MSAs. Lots of good data released today!

What's really interesting is that rather than actually LOOKING at the data, people seem so fixated on how boundaries are defined. ALL THREE of the Ohio 3's are lower than the US metro average. Big growth is out west, and the 3C's are about equal to Chicago, and beat NYC. All three C's had about the same rate of growth -- 1.7 to 1.9% Columbus remains the 3rd largest economy and is 3x bigger than Dayton--the 4th. Cinci MSA is the largest in OH Adams County, OH had -35% GDP growth in one year -- thats a big deal--and its only 3 counties away from Cinci--its not Appalachia. Monroe County--in Appalachia (I think)--had 27% growth.

I wasn't trying to artificially inflate things, rather, make the data more accurate. Actually, the combination brings DOWN CLE's rate of growth. Change from 2017 to 2018: Cleveland Metro 1.8% Cleveland MSA 1.9% Akron MSA 1.7%

^I agree. Urbanized Area--if done right--would be the best metric. But will Akron still try to say they are a separate urbanized area? then we're back to a similar issue. In any event, I did show every county in Ohio---so at very least for CLE, Columbus, Cinci, Youngstown, Toledo, etc.--you can use their counties as a uniform point of comparison.

Let me restate---the definition itself is problematic. It works for some places, but not others. It may work for Columbus, but it certainly doesn't work for Cleveland. I'm not sure about Cincy. Should Dayton be part of Cincy's MSA or should it have its own?

^Maybe they were made to compare places. But if some are accurately defined while others are not, what's the point of using them for comparisons? But however you want to define a metro area, you can use the county-by-county numbers as well.

^ah, that could be. just the facade was done. I drove by about a month ago and saw it, then googled it. Didn't realize it wasn't open on the west side yet. Can't wait to go!

The Jamaican place looks great---its on my list. I thought they opened a while ago?

^?? All cities have a metro area. In some places, the government's MSA boundaries for a city may work. But for others, like Cleveland, it does not.

^"Metropolitan" and "MSA" are not the same thing. "MSA" is a Dept of Commerce creation that puts wrongfully excludes some Cleveland suburbs from Cleveland. So that's why I use "Cleveland Metro" instead of "Cleveland MSA". If you compare CLE to Columbus, that's how you have to do it. CSA's are different---for CLE it would also include Canton and some other areas. I didn't use CSA values either. USE my revised numbers above--some rows got messed up somehow. Sorry about that. Cinci MSA is larger than CLE's. I also broke down Cleveland Metro into Cleveland MSA and Akron MSA for clarity.

Metro GDP changes 2017-2018 for select MSAs: