Hi everyone, I am graduating from Case this semester and have already been accepted to CSU's Law school and received a decent scholarship so I am looking at it seriously.  I am also into Case (didn't give me enough money to make it worth it) and I am still waiting on a few other schools.  I was wondering if anyone here has been in CSU's Master of Public Administration program because I am considering a joint degree.  Tell me what you know.  What would I do with this degree?  Do you think a joint law degree would be worth it.  Also if anybody can contrast/compare the MPA with the urban planning program that would be great because I might consider that too. 

 

Thanks

Congratulations! 

 

I very much wanted to pursue the JD/MPA option and decided against it, but only for financial reasons.  They do cut you a break on your tuition... I think they may charge your law credits at the lower grad-school rate.  It just wasn't enough in my case.  On the whole, school will take longer and cost more if you do this.  But both programs are highly reputable and CSU's MPA program is supposedly top-notch. 

 

I know several people who did the dual degree and they never complained about it being too much to handle.  Some of them had day jobs too.  I'm told the MPA curriculum is considerably easier than law, though it involves more math than some law students might prefer.

Congrats!

 

What do you want to do with your law degree?  I ask because if your goal is to work in a law firm, there is very little reason to consider adding the MPA.  On the other hand, if you know you want to work in government, then you might be better off just pursuing the MPA degree without the JD, since you could complete it in 2 years instead of, what, 4? for the joint degree. 

 

The reason I say this is because with a CSU JD and a CSU MPA, you're getting two very different things.  CSU law has a very strong regional presence, but won't carry much weight outside of Cleveland and northern Ohio where most if its alumni reside.  On the other hand, I know that CSU's MPA program is nationally known, and although I'm not really an expert on the job market for MPAs, I am under the impression that you probably will be able to take that degree and find work outside of Ohio, especially if your undergrad degree is from Case.  While the MPA almost certainly won't do anything for you if you have a JD and you're looking to work for a firm, the JD might give you an edge if you're an MPA looking to work for the government (although I'm not sure if the bounce you get outweighs the extra tuition you will pay and the opportunity cost involved with two additional years of schooling).

 

BTW, in case you're wondering about my qualifications, I am a 2nd year law student at Washington and Lee University, and my fiancee is an MPA grad student at Virginia Tech.  Furthermore, I did a lot of interviewing in the Cleveland legal market this fall before finally taking a job with a firm in Toledo.  So . . . I'm not just talking out of my ass here  :-D

 

Agreed with the above that if you want to practice out of the area, the cost of CWRU may be worth it.  If you are going to stay in Cleveland, it most likely is not.  On the other hand, exactly where you went to law school matters less and less to potential employers the more experience you accumulate. 

 

With the joint degree you may be attractive to City law departments, or perhaps the County Prosecutor's civil division, or firms with a specialty in municipal law.  Just speculation.

When you get to the professional school level, it's generally not good enough to be saying you're "considering a joint degree."  I would ask the same question transferredintent asked: What do you intend to do with this degree, or these degrees?  Professional school is a very different animal from undergrad.  It really is focused on trying to launch you into a career, which many undergraduate major (particularly in the liberal arts) consider a secondary concern to more general enlightenment and experience.

 

The joint JD/MPA degree sounds like a solid qualification for entry into and advancement within the civil service, though you may still be at a disadvantage there to those with prior private legal or public sector experience.  (Most people begin law school either straight out of undergrad or after 1-2 years, but at least where I went to law school, the business school's median experience range was about 5 years.  I don't know what that is for MPA school.)  If you're looking for a law firm position, though, I'm not sure that a JD/MPA opens up any doors that a plain old JD wouldn't, and a JD/MPA with mediocre grades would almost certainly lose out to a vanilla JD with top grades, journal, and moot court/mock trial experience, for example.

Hi everyone, I am graduating from Case this semester and have already been accepted to CSU's Law school and received a decent scholarship so I am looking at it seriously. I am also into Case (didn't give me enough money to make it worth it) and I am still waiting on a few other schools. I was wondering if anyone here has been in CSU's Master of Public Administration program because I am considering a joint degree. Tell me what you know. What would I do with this degree? Do you think a joint law degree would be worth it. Also if anybody can contrast/compare the MPA with the urban planning program that would be great because I might consider that too.

 

Thanks

Joint JD/MPA would prepare you very well to become a City Law Director or City Manager.  I think MPA is more civil service oriented and would work anywhere while Urban Planning is more focused on bigger city issues and potentially private 'city planning' firm jobs.

 

I'll ditto the others when it comes to grades.  Grades coupled with experience (clerkships for example) are what really matter if you want to get hired.

 

A lot depends on what you want/are interested in.

I'm a Levin MPA, and I have to say that I thought the program was excellent. Law school will definitely be more of a challenge; many of my friends in the joint program recommended I NOT pursue the joint degree, as I had no desire to practice, and they didn't think the extra effort would be worth it. That being said, I never heard any JDs complain about any additional burden from MPA or MUPDD. As for MPA v. MUPDD, I found the caliber of students to be a bit higher in the MUPDD program, but an MPA in the Economic Development track ends up taking very similar classes anyway. MPA is very broad, which allows you to explore your own areas of research and develop a specific area of expertise. MUPDD seems to be a bit more structured, but the exchange is that the information tends to be much more specific and technical, while I felt like the MPA was a little "softer". That being said, I feel like both the MPA and the MUPDD serve students well. Most of my friends with these degrees have ended up in government or nonprofit, with focuses on arts and culture, community development, economic development, green building, parks, philanthrophy, planning, etc. And I don't think that number 2 ranking in urban policy is a bad thing either :)

If you do want to be a practicing lawyer, law review and moot court are bigger deals than they may seem upfront.  Not just extracurriculars but major status symbols.  A dual degree would likely make these more difficult to do (they're really time consuming), but then again I've seen dual degree students excel in them, so it can be done.  As everyone has noted, it depends a lot on what you plan to end up doing.

 

There were times when I overextended myself during law school and my grades suffered.  Law grades carry a lot more weight than college grades.  So I don't want to minimize the importance of keeping it simple in every way you can.  I assume you're interested in the sort of jobs an MPA might lead to if you're even considering the dual degree.  But Gramarye is absolutely right-- if what you're looking for is legal work, you're better off focusing on being the best law student you can be.  Law firms are looking for law geeks, they're not all that interested in the breadth of your knowledge. 

Gramarye is absolutely right

 

I'm just going to sit here and bask for a moment.

 

All right, carry on. :-D 8-)  :angel:

^^ Law Review is bigger deal at Case.  Moot Court is Cleveland-Marshall's claim to fame.

Law review is particularly important for positions in the judiciary and legal academia, regardless of whether a school is "known" for a particular journal.

Both schools have excellent Law Reviews.  My point was that Cleveland-Marshall's Moot Court team can hold its own with the best of the best... way above its national ranking as a law school.  In most every other school, Law Review would be more prestigious.

At this point I would just like to say that CSU's Journal of Law and Health is totally awesome.

Law review is particularly important for positions in the judiciary and legal academia, regardless of whether a school is "known" for a particular journal.

 

Additionally, if you go to CSU or Case, getting on law review is also probably a prerequisite to getting a summer associate position with any of the larger Cleveland firms.  The legal job market is just atrocious right now, and probably will be for the next several years.  Firms can afford to be uber-selective.  That's just another reason for the OP to forget about trying to get an MPA if he aspires to work in a law firm--he's better off focusing all his energies on making great grades and killing the law review write-on (if that's how CSU does it). 

Yeah I don't really want to work in a law firm.  I would rather work in government/public interest.  Thank you for all of the replies, they have helped.  So I guess the main question is: Is one extra year for a dual degree worth it to gain the extra experience and qualifications, or would it get in the way of being successful in Law school? 

If finances are not a concern, the more education the better is what I say.

I don't think it's worth the time and effort.  If you want to practice law in the public/PI sectors, just get the JD.  If you just want to work in the public sector but don't have any interest in actually practicing law, just get the MPA and forget the JD. 

 

As somebody pointed out above, professional school is an entirely different animal from undergraduate education--it's really geared towards placing you in a specific job, and it gives you a fairly specific set of skills you need to succeed in that one area.  Having an MPA will not help you get a job as a lawyer.  Having the combo JD/MPA may give you an edge if you want to work for the government or a non-profit in an administrative capacity, but I can't imagine the marginal gain you get from having a CSU JD on top of the CSU MPA will outweigh the time, effort, and opportunity cost it takes to earn the joint degree. 

 

I still think you could derive benefit from a dual program, but again, it really depends on your very specific career goals. Serving as legal counsel is a  lot different than wanting to be an executive director or a city department director, for instance. Two other options to consider: If your interest in law is more cursory (i.e. if you do not intend to serve as a legal representative of either a nonprofit or municipality), you can still get classes within the MPA (or MUPDD or Urban Studies, etc.) that address legal issues. I want to make clear that these are not anything as rigorous as  you would face in law school but would give you a "taste" if that's sufficient: Law and Public Administration, Introduction to Law and Public Policy and Law and Public Policy Clinic. These all serve as electives for the Levin programs, so you could pursue them and still complete a Master's program in two years. On the flip side, if law is your passion and the nonprofit/government/urban policy side is the more cursory interest, you could also consider a graduate certificate; these consist of only 4 classes (around 16 hours instead of the 34 required for the joint MPA), and there are several of them to pick from: Geographic Information Systems, Local and Urban Management, Nonprofit Management, Urban Economic Development and Urban Real Estate Development and Finance.