Regardless of the school ratings.

 

This suggests that something else is in play, something like the spreading layer of poverty discussed earlier.  And even if a city is losing young families to the exurbs it still needs to replenish with young singles.  Young singles support local businesses, which are good for the tax base, plus they themselves pay taxes, without drawing on school resources.  This in turn helps improve the schools. 

 

This one is less of an issue in UH, but in Lakewood it's not easy to get to major retail concentrations.  That is a big deal for families.  Lakewood is uber-urban and was developed to use a transit-linked downtown Cleveland as its retail hub, which no longer exists.  Therefore Lakewood has less appeal for families than it otherwise might.  They almost tore down part of the west end to address this problem, and I'm glad they didn't, but that does mean the problem remains. 

 

UH has much better retail options within its borders, plus quick access to Beachwood, so I would surmise that it has more to gain from improving the school system and capitalizing on the drawing power of nearby colleges.  CH and UH will also benefit from continued redevelopment in and around University Circle.  I can't emphasize enough how the proximity of so many rough areas hurts the Heights.  Work on East Cleveland, work on Fairfax, Mt. Pleasant, Woodhill and Buckeye.  Those efforts will pay off in the Heights.

I can tell you as a mother, what I "hear" about the Lakewood schools now from people who live in Lakewood or know teachers there, is they are a lot more filled with white "thug" types, that they "wouldn't be surprised" if some kind of dangerous incident took place at the high school some day soon.

 

I have heard shopkeepers in Lakewood talk about the behavior of the Arab children, particularly the male children who do not feel the need to conform to any rules.  The large influx of Arab families into Lakewood has made it a nice cultural blend and has given it a different, richer feel, but many folks who were living there previously don't like the mix, and Arabic people are a predominant prescence in Lakewood now. You can't drive down the street without passing a minivan driven by an Arabic woman with several children in it. 

 

It has been several years since I lived in Lakewood but my mother owns a house there and she is active in the Y and talks to a lot of other people who live in Lakewood as well, as do we both when we're out and about in Lakewood.  I can tell you one of the last apartments I had there, there were a lot of Arabic families living in the building across the way from me and I had to keep my windows closed most of the time because of the late night noise. I don't know if it was just these particular families or if it's across the culture, but they do not seem to have a "bedtime" for their young children, and they would be up screaming and playing until the wee hours of the morning whenever they felt like it.  From observing the behavior of the women, it seems the women are allowed to correct only the female children when it comes to mis-behaving.  This type of cultural difference is something that takes some getting used to, and this is coming from someone who dated an Arab for quite awhile (my earliest of the 10 marriage proposals!) and whose sister lived with an Arabic guy at the same time - their culture is just different. I cannot say for sure if this has changed the culture and feeling of the schools and maybe this is why some people are starting to leave Lakewood, but I would think it has to factor in somehow just on the sheer numbers of Arabic folks who have moved in in the last decade.

 

JMO.

I'd like to hear some ideas about how Cleveland Heights (and University Heights) can encourage more middle-class families to relocate to the city, and how the perception of the local schools can be improved so that these families, current or future, will feel comfortable in utilizing them.

 

SH has been encouraging owner occupancy of 2-family homes in certain targeted areas, I believe through cash grants or subsidized mortgage financing.  To the extent people worry about poorly managed rental housing, this might be a good program for CH.

All the inner rings should be doing everything they can to encourage owner occupied mutli family housing. It is such a win-win for the cities it needs to be done. A lot depends  on how this all shakes out with housing market and mortage market. Once it  stabilizes it will hopefully become an attractive model for young buyer/family again that otherwise wouldn't be able to own a house that 5 years ago were able to pick up a house with zero down.

 

 

I do not anticipate a resurgence in demand for 2-family housing.  But, as you say, the market may have other ideas.

I don't see that become attractive either.  If a family cannot afford a home or to rent a single family home, I would think  most would think the next best option is an apartment. 

^I'm not sure I understand...a non-owner occupied unit in the 2 fam house is an apartment.  Unless by "apartment" you mean a unit in a large building in complex.  In which case, I'm not so sure I agree that families with children would prefer that over a unit in a 2 fam house.  Certainly not 100% of them (which means there would still be some market for 2-fam houses).  Depending on the usage rights attached to units and the building condition, 2-fam houses still offer many of the benefits of sf houses: yards, medium density residential neighborhood, large living areas (often) and period details.

I'm no real estate expert, but I do not think of that as an apartment.  That's "half a double," at least in most people's vernacular.  Probably not by dictionary definition.  When you are sharing a house, you have to share the yard, the driveway, the WALLS, it's not particularly desirable unless you really, really get along with the other people.  In an apartment, the community space belongs to everyone, so it's everyone's swingset, for example, and management keeps the swingset in working order.  If your kid breaks the picnic table in the backyard in a double and they don't call anyone to come fix it, you have to call the landlord on them.  If the other people are always hogging the driveway and parking where they're not supposed to and you can't get in or out when you need to, you have to call the landlord. It's a lot different if a building is designed to have separate housing units like an apartment, and you have a neighbor who is a smoker or who walks heavily or has a lot of children running about or plays loud music, it's a completely different thing when it's a house that has been converted into 2 doubles.  Most people do not want to sit on the porch next to another family sharing the same porch.

Yes but as the landlord of the double you have control (insert evil laugh and pressing of finger tips together :evil: )

I'm no real estate expert, but I do not think of that as an apartment. That's "half a double," at least in most people's vernacular. Probably not by dictionary definition. When you are sharing a house, you have to share the yard, the driveway, the WALLS, it's not particularly desirable unless you really, really get along with the other people. In an apartment, the community space belongs to everyone, so it's everyone's swingset, for example, and management keeps the swingset in working order. If your kid breaks the picnic table in the backyard in a double and they don't call anyone to come fix it, you have to call the landlord on them. If the other people are always hogging the driveway and parking where they're not supposed to and you can't get in or out when you need to, you have to call the landlord. It's a lot different if a building is designed to have separate housing units like an apartment, and you have a neighbor who is a smoker or who walks heavily or has a lot of children running about or plays loud music, it's a completely different thing when it's a house that has been converted into 2 doubles. Most people do not want to sit on the porch next to another family sharing the same porch.

 

Gotcha.  I'd think some of those same issues are there in a larger apartment building/complex, but I hear ya, when it's just you and one other household- especially if they're the owners- you better hope they are reasonable.  Certainly clear rules about what's allowed and careful tenant screening help though.  I could very much imagine owning and living in a 2 fam and renting out the other half, but forbidding smoking, delineating who has what yard and driveway rights, etc.  I'd expect owner occupants to select better tenants/enforce rules better than absentee landlords; which is good for the other neighbors, but not always good for the tenant.

 

For what it's worth, 2 and 3 fam houses are very much in demand in more expensive housing markets as a nice compromise between high density rental living and sf living.  I've very much enjoyed renting in a 3-family house.  But the price points tend to attract a well behaved tenant class.

I'm no real estate expert, but I do not think of that as an apartment.  That's "half a double," at least in most people's vernacular.  Probably not by dictionary definition.  When you are sharing a house, you have to share the yard, the driveway, the WALLS, it's not particularly desirable unless you really, really get along with the other people.  In an apartment, the community space belongs to everyone, so it's everyone's swingset, for example, and management keeps the swingset in working order. If your kid breaks the picnic table in the backyard in a double and they don't call anyone to come fix it, you have to call the landlord on them. If the other people are always hogging the driveway and parking where they're not supposed to and you can't get in or out when you need to, you have to call the landlord. It's a lot different if a building is designed to have separate housing units like an apartment, and you have a neighbor who is a smoker or who walks heavily or has a lot of children running about or plays loud music, it's a completely different thing when it's a house that has been converted into 2 doubles.  Most people do not want to sit on the porch next to another family sharing the same porch.

 

Not necessarily if the table is the occupants.  Most landlords (that I know) wouldn't supply outdoor furniture.

 

In regard to things like the driveway, It really depends on the landlord and how they administer/govern their properties.

We've considered it and actually looked at a lot of ads, but it seems to be as expensive as a mortgage payment compared to what we're paying in rent, and I'm not going to pay all that money and do all the work that a house requires unless I can actually be the owner.

Here is some good promotion of the schools...

 

Heights High on Academic Challenge May 22, 7 p.m., Channel 5

 

 

http://www.heightsobserver.org/read/3/6/heights-high-on-academic-challenge-may-22-7-pm-channel-5

Apartments are typically cheaper on utilities than doubles are.  Once you consider the gas bill with the rent, a young family can often find price-competitive apartment options further out in the burbs. 

 

I'm not a "family" but during my time living in a Lakewood double I encounered every one of the problems people have mentioned here.  I don't plan on going that route again.  If there is an owner/occupier, or their friends & relatives are in the other unit, your interests will always be secondary.

I'm not a "family" but during my time living in a Lakewood double I encounered every one of the problems people have mentioned here.  I don't plan on going that route again.  If there is an owner/occupier, or their friends & relatives are in the other unit, your interests will always be secondary.

 

I put the interests of my brother and siter behind my other tenants!

 

But seriously if the double isn't a viable housing model, the inner rings and Cleveland better put there colllective heads together and figure out what to do with them because they are just an invitation for more trouble. The economics aren't there to covert them into single family homes without some serious incentives/subsidization. They need to make the case in the county, Columbus or DC that the infrastructure subsidization on a new home in a development is greater than the subsidization needed to convert these doubles and try and get some money/tax credits to start the work. I know this has been tried before several times but it never got past the pilot houses.

Has anyone else noticed a significant increase in the Indian (I assume) population along Noble Rd?  I shouldn't even say "increase" because there never was such a population.  Maybe it is just one large family that enjoys walks, but it seems like everytime I drive up that street lately, the presence stands out because, like I said, it is something new.

Not really, it's a family?  I know western CH has a lot of young Indians (and Asians) who attend school at CWRU.

Definitely not just one family.  I thought it might be at first, but yesterday, I spotted them walking up Noble Road, then over on Bluestone by St. Margaret Mary, and then on Green Rd. near the Metroparks entrance.  It only stands out because the "121" never had any form of Asian / Middle Eastern population (that is, except for my good old friend Sammy at the Noble Dairy Mart).  I asked one of my buddies who still lives in the neighborhood and he said that he has noticed the same thing lately.

 

These are not college students.  I am mostly noticing what appears to be people later on in life (50-60) or young families with babies.  The rents are pretty cheap in the buildings along Noble and Green, and it appears that is where I have noticed the difference.