3CDC bidding for Dennison Hotel

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn, Cincinnati Enquirer, April 27, 2010

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. says it's in negotiations to purchase and redevelop The Dennison Hotel, a downtown apartment building.

 

Stephen Leeper, president and CEO of non-profit development group 3CDC, said Tuesday that the firm has an option to purchase the 8-story building at 721 Main St. and is working with Walnut Hills-based The Model Group on a plan to transform it into 63 housing units aimed as helping individuals with a range of special needs.

3CDC has begun to acknowledge pre-development for this project in their more recent presentations.

3CDC 2010-2011 Annual Report

 

Talbert House & Model will make it permanet supportive housing.

Has anybody heard news on the fate of this building? I noticed they removed the old metal awning out front last week, so I checked the auditor page/cagis (716 Main St). Turns out the property has changed hands to the terrible owners of many downtown parking lots, which they refuse to allow development on. Looks like they have a permit to repair the boiler. Hopefully it's not turning back into what it was a few years ago.

 

If it returns to use as SRO housing, I think that'd be ok. That's a segment of housing type in short supply that caters well to the very poor. It's also a good bridge between homelessness and full housing.

If it returns to use as SRO housing, I think that'd be ok. That's a segment of housing type in short supply that caters well to the very poor. It's also a good bridge between homelessness and full housing.

 

I don't disagree with you there - I just hope that if it does go down that path that at least some renovation is done and the building doesn't just continue to rot until they can justify tearing it down to add to their adjacent parking lot.

oh, completely agree on that front. The building is actually quite nice, and wouldn't require TOO much reno to look even better.

Anybody know why 3CDC and Model Group ditched their plans for this building? What is the current plan?

Not sure... this isn't the first time 3CDC has announced plans to renovate a building and not moved forward with it. They announced the renovation of these buildings back in 2012 and nothing has happened yet:

 

308-316 Main Street by Travis Estell, on Flickr

As far as I've heard (all indirect, so with a grain of salt) they're aiming at those being really high end units that can fetch a huge price per square foot. Meaning they're waiting for the streetcar to drive up activity as much as possible before doing anything.

Yesterday and Today there have been big dumpsters out behind the Dennison Hotel with people actively cleaning all the furniture out and tossing it.

 

If they were going to demolish the building would they be clearing all the rooms out ahead of time? The company cleaning out the building was Evans Landscaping... I know they have a demolition component to their business.  I know the owner of the building wants to expand their big parking lot adjacent to the building.

 

Would be sad to see this replaced with parking.

Yesterday and Today there have been big dumpsters out behind the Dennison Hotel with people actively cleaning all the furniture out and tossing it.

 

If they were going to demolish the building would they be clearing all the rooms out ahead of time? The company cleaning out the building was Evans Landscaping... I know they have a demolition component to their business.  I know the owner of the building wants to expand their big parking lot adjacent to the building.

 

Would be sad to see this replaced with parking.

 

There aren't any permits pulled for the property at the moment, so they won't be starting demo any time soon. Maybe they're cleaning it out in order to sell it?

I know no permit has been acquired but they might just be trying to clear it out in preparation for selling it or making it more suitable for a future project.

I think it was only about a year ago, anyway, less than 2 years ago, that the Josephs bought the Dennison.  I'd be surprised if it hasn't been their goal to tear it down.  They've already torn down 2 buildings on the block since I've been familiar with it - a building at 7th & Main and a building on 8th, east of the alley that runs behind the Dennison.  Those demolitions were after the creation of the Main Street Historic District.  The Josephs definitely have clout.  But it remains to be seen if they have enough to tear down the Dennison.  Interest in preservation seems to have become heightened since those days.

 

I can't imagine there wouldn't be an uproar if the they were granted permission to demolish the Dennison.  It's much more architecturally pleasing than the Davis Furniture building or some other buildings in OTR that preservationists have fought to spare the wrecking ball.

 

 

Any doubt that the owners of the Dennison Hotel want to demolish it can be laid to rest:

 

"Hamilton County Auditor records show that building was sold July 24, 2013, by Ironworks Apartments LLC to a subsidiary of Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., an Over-the-Rhine nonprofit development group that sometimes gets city money to rehabilitate key sections of the city's urban core. Joseph bought the building from 3CDC a month later, and hopes to demolish the building for a future project."

 

The full article:

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/05/04/cincinnati-laws-require-elevators-inspected/26715959/

So does "demolish building for a future project" = parking lot? They already own ample land in that area if they wanted to develop it into something of value.

That might be their plan but as of yet no demolition permit has been granted.

Edit: retracted.

Why would 3CDC sell it to someone who plans to demolish it - especially if the demolition is for a parking lot? Do they not vet potential buyers?

As a second thought, should we be actively discussing this building with the Main Street Historic District? If they need to approve demolition we should be convincing them it needs to stay.

 

There is no "they" when it comes to the Main Street Historic District.  A permit request to demolish a building in an historic district would by reviewed by the Historic Conservation Board.  But I don't know that it's the final say - I think it only serves to advise, and City Council would ultimately decide.  This is when the Josephs' political clout may come into play.

The "they" I was referring to was the historic conservation board. Seeing how to start a dialogue could go a long way towards moving forward.

^ probably because they own a ton of downtown property, and since you cant quite take it with eminent domain, it gives them a lot of say over what is done on the property. They also employ a bunch of people in the City limits and even downtown, they own the land the Chiquita Center is on, amongst other buildings.

 

I hope this answers your question.

Policies that don't let buildings get into this shape would go a long way towards ensuring they remain for future use and aren't demolished in favor of something new.

I believe they have a number of car dealerships in the city limits. They own Swapalease.com which I believe is still downtown, or was downtown on 4th street up until a few years ago. Their corporate offices are downtown as well, and I imagine they would have a family office downtown too (but I am not certain). Regardless, they are directly or indirectly responsible for a number of downtown jobs. They own the land underneath the Chiquita Center and were responsible for helping to develop that building.

 

I think part of the parking lot philosophy is that they were land developers who had big projects in mind, started moving ahead with them only to have the financing fall apart as it often does in commercial real estate. Remember the Dunnhumby Center or Macy's were parking lots for a number of years before any development there took place.

 

 

That side of town is seeing some nice momentum and maybe they plan to build something and we just haven't heard about it yet.

True, the question is what can they feasibly build there. You cant put a tower there, because it would block the view from the Atrium, you could build low rise apartments. If the buildings are falling down it is a question as to the cost of maintaining or tearing down. I don't know what their long term play is on this though.

You can definitely build towers here. There's nothing stopping them from blocking the view from another building.

While you could technically build a tower there, again it would be difficult. Considering how it would diminish the value of the Atrium complex, such a proposal would likely spawn a significant lawsuit. This could delay construction of a project long enough to effectively kill it completely because the financing would disappear or become unpalatable. There would be no way to rush something like that through unless the owners of the Atrium complex were in agreement.

There wouldn't be a lawsuit because there's nothing in place that would make a lawsuit possible. You don't own your views. In no way shape or form would they need the go ahead from the Atrium complex to build a tower on these sites. They are zoned for such construction and unless they ask for a variance of some sort, there's nothing the Atrium owners would ever be able to do about it.

 

If people could sue over views being lost in the CBD, almost no towers would exist. Because every new building "ruins" someone's view somewhere.

^ probably because they own a ton of downtown property, and since you cant quite take it with eminent domain, it gives them a lot of say over what is done on the property. They also employ a bunch of people in the City limits and even downtown, they own the land the Chiquita Center is on, amongst other buildings.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

Do they actually employ a lot of people in Cincinnati?  Where is that suggestion coming from?  I think they only employ a handful of parking lot attendants.  The rest of their property is in the suburbs.

Also, the Joseph family sued the City & the owners of the Chiquita building claiming they could prevent a Nielson sign from being added to the building.  They want no signage on the building, which is bizarre.  Thankfully, they lost the suit.

Swapalease is in BlueAsh

Other quotes from a BizCourier expose on the family:

- “We are a very involved ownership group,” said Greg Joseph, 49, who spends most of his time at Camargo Cadillac in Montgomery.

- “Each of us has responsibility over a dealership or two, but we help each other in all aspects of the business,” said George Joseph, 47, whose main office is at the company’s Toyota dealership on Colerain Avenue.

 

According to E*Trade their corporate address is:

8733 Colerain Avenue

Cincinnati, OH 45251

 

^ probably because they own a ton of downtown property, and since you cant quite take it with eminent domain, it gives them a lot of say over what is done on the property. They also employ a bunch of people in the City limits and even downtown, they own the land the Chiquita Center is on, amongst other buildings.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

Do they actually employ a lot of people in Cincinnati?  Where is that suggestion coming from?  I think they only employ a handful of parking lot attendants.  The rest of their property is in the suburbs.

 

I did not say a ton, but I believe they have dealerships in the city limits, (not downtown). I do not think they employee the parking lot attendants as I would imagine the management would be subbed out. I was unaware swap a lease moved. They used to be downtown on 4th street for years.

True, the question is what can they feasibly build there. You cant put a tower there, because it would block the view from the Atrium, you could build low rise apartments. If the buildings are falling down it is a question as to the cost of maintaining or tearing down. I don't know what their long term play is on this though.

 

The Dennison Hotel is in the 700 block of Main Street. How would any development in this area impact Atrium 1 or 2 which is in the 300 block of Main? Brutus_buckeye[/member], are you talking about the structures at 308-316 Main?

True, the question is what can they feasibly build there. You cant put a tower there, because it would block the view from the Atrium, you could build low rise apartments. If the buildings are falling down it is a question as to the cost of maintaining or tearing down. I don't know what their long term play is on this though.

 

The Dennison Hotel is in the 700 block of Main Street. How would any development in this area impact Atrium 1 or 2 which is in the 300 block of Main? Brutus_buckeye[/member], are you talking about the structures at 308-316 Main?

 

I was very confused by this as well.

If you hit the Powerball you can't just come to town and build a skyscraper with cash wherever you want.  The old money families who control where skyscrapers go in many U.S. cities will frustrate your effort to interrupt their long game.  I highly recommend reading Robert Fogelson's "Downtown Its Rise & Fall" book -- it lays bare how old money families are responsible for so much of the nonsense that goes on with skyscrapers and surface parking in America's downtowns. 

A FB group has been formed to Save the Dennison Hotel:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/dennisonhotel/members/

Sorry, I saw the pictures at 316 Main and thought people were talking about that project

Past couple days there has been scaffolding setup outside the Dennison on the sidewalk on Main. Not sure if this is signs of some sort of redevelopment, or just to protect pedestrians from falling debris as the building continues to deteriorate under its current ownership.

Looks like very little is going on here and your suspicion of the scaffolding being for falling debris was correct.

 

http://m.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/01/13/here-s-what-s-going-on-with-this-former-downtown.html

Current owners operate car dealerships and parking lots. And it appears they have no interest in redeveloping the property (but i am glad to see they are shoring up the building so it does not continue to fall apart from the elements). But since it is in main street historic district it is harder for them to demolish for additional parking...would seem like a good move to sell the property to a developer for residential or office redevelopment and then work out a deal so that the users of the building then park in the lot they own behind the building. Win win for both parties and the building comes back to life.

What's interesting to me is that both 3CDC and the Model Group have owned this building recently, and evidently couldn't make it work.

SSRG still has scaffolding up at the Dennison:

 

Hearing the owners are going to push for demolition

This cannot happen. What can we do now to make a fuss before they make their push?

A coworker of mine who lives in London and works out of my company's Dublin office was recently in town visiting our Cincinnati office. I took him to Pi for lunch and we walked right by the Dennison Hotel. When he saw it he was in awe and stopped to take several photos. What does that tell you when international visitors stop to gawk at the architecture of this building, but the local yokels who own it are like "meh, too much effort to maintain it" and want it demolished?

The owners must be very short sighted. They have a building that could be turned into a hotel, offices, apartments, etc right on the streetcar line. This could make them a lot of money in the long run with an initial investment up front. There needs to be a charter amendment not allowing the destruction of our historic buildings for the purposes of a parking lot. A parking lot is NOT development. Unfortunately, parking lots make a lot of money in the short term with very little initial investment and up keep.

Maybe this could potentially help?

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/10/cincinnati-could-land-new-fund-to-redevelop.html

 

My question is, are the owners of the building that ignorant of the revitalization of Cincinnati? This building would seem to be a no brainier for 500k luxury condos. :/

How would people feel if something like we are seeing proposed where donatos is be proposed at this site?

OK, no mocking my 5 minute photoshop please, but WHY cant they see the potential in this building? They control the lot nextdoor already and the wonderful views that potential MONEY MAKING condos would have here. Across from the Aronoff, turn a wee bit of the parking to an landscaped yard for the residents, roof top deck. A sunlit brick wall of balconies. Have some vision! This is already here and anything that would ever be built here from an empty lot would not have anywhere Near the potential this has. Ugh. Love parking lots? They can even build multi deck parking for it with the free tax dollars the city likes to give to connected people for garages attached to new projects. Pe a POSITIVE influence on the city, dont just keep running with parking because it has worked for the family in the past, do something that could bring more money that a new lot for like 30 more cars could bring. They already own the building, bring in some outside help to get financing and grants and leverage the HUGE positive this could be to your investment. (RANT OVER)