February 8, 20178 yr I like the park because it denies the Joseph's revenue from the land so they hopefully have some incentive to put it back into productive use. Fittingly, it is likely to be covered in dog sh*t so I like the symbolism. However, I don't believe they have any intentions of building a park. Just pre-demolition PR. A year from now, parking lot, with a nice free contribution from the city in the form of the alleyways. Yeah if you get on cagis and the auditor's site you will see how many alleys have been sold off all around the city. Sometimes only half a of an alley is sold, so that it it still exists on one side of a block but terminates in the middle.
February 8, 20178 yr Surrounded by a 6' picket fence with a lockable gate? Lovely. Yep, private space pretending to be a public park. I bet if I show up in this new "park" with a "Boycott Joseph Auto" sign I will be kicked out and banned for life.
February 8, 20178 yr I guess at this point the only thing we can hope for is the success of the Greiwe projects across the street prompting residential construction on this corner. Based on what we've heard from the city in the past about the alley between this corner and the rest of the Joseph lot that alley isn't going anywhere without extensive utility work. I actually wouldn't be surprised if in a short time we hear about the Joseph's plans to team up with a developer on residential tower on this corner that's questionably far along and is clearly something they planned before demolishing the Dennison. I know they keep claiming "Fortune 500" which is obviously a load of BS as it has been since the 80s, but some of the Josephs actually do a good job at developing small scale development. Ron Joseph specifically has done a good job in buildings throughout the city that most people don't even realize were done by him. I worked on one in Mt. Lookout Square which was a pleasure to work on and came out fantastic and enhanced that portion of the square. I'm hoping some of this desire to create a better built environment shines through in new construction on these lots at some point soon. At the very least along the Streetcar.
February 8, 20178 yr I guess at this point the only thing we can hope for is the success of the Greiwe projects across the street prompting residential construction on this corner. Based on what we've heard from the city in the past about the alley between this corner and the rest of the Joseph lot that alley isn't going anywhere without extensive utility work. I actually wouldn't be surprised if in a short time we hear about the Joseph's plans to team up with a developer on residential tower on this corner that's questionably far along and is clearly something they planned before demolishing the Dennison. I know they keep claiming "Fortune 500" which is obviously a load of BS as it has been since the 80s, but some of the Josephs actually do a good job at developing small scale development. Ron Joseph specifically has done a good job in buildings throughout the city that most people don't even realize were done by him. I worked on one in Mt. Lookout Square which was a pleasure to work on and came out fantastic and enhanced that portion of the square. I'm hoping some of this desire to create a better built environment shines through in new construction on these lots at some point soon. At the very least along the Streetcar. If it does get torn town I hope that is true, but WOW they need to hire a new PR firm or at least change how they approach things. Lots of people in the against column would not be nearly as vocal if, like Mr Grewie they put in lots of effort to design and think about the replacement building before approaching the city to talk demo. It would still have issues since it is a more signifigant structure than the one across the street but it would help ease fear that this would be empty for several decades like everything else they touched around there. This entire time, the Joseph's, Columbia REI, the legal team, the Mayor and their PR firm look like elitist snobs who play by their own rules and look down on those dumb residents who actually care about the city.
February 8, 20178 yr I guess at this point the only thing we can hope for is the success of the Greiwe projects across the street prompting residential construction on this corner. Based on what we've heard from the city in the past about the alley between this corner and the rest of the Joseph lot that alley isn't going anywhere without extensive utility work. I actually wouldn't be surprised if in a short time we hear about the Joseph's plans to team up with a developer on residential tower on this corner that's questionably far along and is clearly something they planned before demolishing the Dennison. I know they keep claiming "Fortune 500" which is obviously a load of BS as it has been since the 80s, but some of the Josephs actually do a good job at developing small scale development. Ron Joseph specifically has done a good job in buildings throughout the city that most people don't even realize were done by him. I worked on one in Mt. Lookout Square which was a pleasure to work on and came out fantastic and enhanced that portion of the square. I'm hoping some of this desire to create a better built environment shines through in new construction on these lots at some point soon. At the very least along the Streetcar. If it does get torn town I hope that is true, but WOW they need to hire a new PR firm or at least change how they approach things. Lots of people in the against column would not be nearly as vocal if, like Mr Grewie they put in lots of effort to design and think about the replacement building before approaching the city to talk demo. It would still have issues since it is a more signifigant structure than the one across the street but it would help ease fear that this would be empty for several decades like everything else they touched around there. This entire time, the Joseph's, Columbia REI, the legal team, the Mayor and their PR firm look like elitist snobs who play by their own rules and look down on those dumb residents who actually care about the city. X2
February 8, 20178 yr Here's the break down right now. Matt Woods legal group is filing an appeal. That appeal takes time to process (from what I understand at least 2 weeks), that would block the demolition and have this carry towards trial. Currently it's a race against the clock. One fortunate thing that has occured is that the Dennison is filled with Asbestos and considering the size of the building it may easily take 2 weeks to fully get rid of. Even afterwards, their will be a little bit of time needed to fully get the Dennison prepped for proper demolition. Chris Seelbach landmark application is also on the docket for this upcoming HCB packet (Feb 13th). It's literally as if we are 7 points down with 30 seconds left on the clock to carry the ball 100 yards for a touch down. Time is the biggest issue, and how long it will take to get the Dennison ready for demolition is are only saving grace in this matter till the appeal can be processed.
February 8, 20178 yr Also, sorry for the double post, but please sign this Change.org petition. It's the least we can do for now. We know the jospehs hate bad press, and this might be something that helps with that! https://www.change.org/p/save-the-dennison-hotel-from-demolition-boycott-joseph-dealerships?recruiter=2808359&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_page&utm_term=mob-md-share_petition-custom_msg
February 9, 20178 yr So from what I understand the Landmark status for The Dennison was granted? PG 85: http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/buildings/historic-conservation/historic-conservation-board/february-13-2017-staff-report-and-attachments/
February 9, 20178 yr Based on that HCB packet, it appears that the staff recommends the designation, but the HCB board won't decide until their next meeting on Feb 13.
February 10, 20178 yr https://cincinnatiideas.com/2017/02/07/historic-preservation-a-link-to-a-different-kind-of-economy/ www.cincinnatiideas.com
February 14, 20178 yr Dennison landmark status in limbo A last-ditch effort to landmark the former Dennison Hotel at 716 Main St. is in limbo after the Historic Conservation Board deadlocked 2-2 over whether the building is historically significant enough to deserve the designation. Despite the deadlock, the petition now moves to the Cincinnati Planning Commission without a recommendation. The City Council ultimately must approve any landmark designation. At a hearing on Monday afternoon, Councilman Chris Seelbach, preservationists and attorneys for Columbia REI LLC, a company owned by the Joseph family, traded barbs over the building, which the Josephs say currently is being demolished after it obtained permission from the Zoning Board of Appeals and a permit from the city. Seelbach filed the landmarking application in December in an 11th-hour attempt to save the building from demolition. But the city’s top lawyer said that even if the City Council declares the Dennison a landmark, it will not stop the Josephs from demolishing it because they already have a certificate of appropriateness from the city and the demolition permit. There is precedent for the city landmarking a piece of property over its owner’s objections. City Council recently did so in the case of the former King Records building in Evanston. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/02/14/dennison-landmark-status-in-limbo.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 14, 20178 yr Many people have posted photos elsewhere of the roof and windows being removed. So the interior is now exposed to rain.
February 15, 20178 yr The stuff that Barett is saying is so crazy, like seriously you think you'd get negative reaction from tearing down a large old orante building that you can't find in most cities? What universe do these people live in?
February 15, 20178 yr The stuff that Barett is saying is so crazy, like seriously you think you'd get negative reaction from tearing down a large old orante building that you can't find in most cities? What universe do these people live in? The 'burbs
February 15, 20178 yr This is what happens when boring old people can't let go of what once was. It's ugly. Tear it down.
February 15, 20178 yr This is what happens when boring old people can't let go of what once was. It's ugly. Tear it down. The parking lots are ugly. Keep the Dennison.
February 15, 20178 yr "It's ugly, tear it down" - every Post-WWII leader with plans for urban renewal that later came to be seen as a mistake.
February 16, 20178 yr The Josephs prove the old Mark Twain rumored quote true (even if it was never said) and then some. They are acting like leaders from the 1960s.
February 16, 20178 yr You have to wonder what kind of in-fighting is going on, if any, among the brothers. It's extraordinarily rare that siblings get along while running an inherited business. Is one or a pair of brothers going to great lengths to have this thing torn down just to screw with on of the others (or another family member)?
February 23, 20178 yr Time to change the title of this thread from redevelopment to demolition. From this past Sunday:
July 25, 20177 yr Why the Dennison Hotel demolition is frozen Demolition of the Dennison Hotel has stopped because the mostly torn-down building shares a wall with the structure next door at 722 Main St. The Joseph family – whose company, Columbia REI, owns the Dennison property – said in a statement that it did not know about the shared wall until after demolition commenced. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/07/25/why-the-dennison-hotel-demolition-is-frozen.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 25, 20177 yr No one could have known that demolishing a 127-year-old historic building could be so complicated.
July 25, 20177 yr No one could have known that demolishing a 127-year-old historic building could be so complicated. Or the Josephs actually have knowledge from pre-demo engineering reports that show this conflict existed. A work around way of getting this building torn down as well when they get the owner of the damaged building to sell to them.
July 25, 20177 yr I predict that the Josephs will attempt to buy the adjacent building and demolish it as well. Surely, since it's now damaged, they can ram that through the appropriate boards pretty quickly. Our historic districts fall like dominos.
July 25, 20177 yr No one could have known that demolishing a 127-year-old historic building could be so complicated. Or the Josephs actually have knowledge from pre-demo engineering reports that show this conflict existed. A work around way of getting this building torn down as well when they get the owner of the damaged building to sell to them. The fact that they didn't use a wrecking ball but rather disassembled this thing by hand makes me suspicious that they knew this all along. Oldest trick in the book.
July 25, 20177 yr It seems the "experts" the Josephs hired to testify in the various hearings were even more incompetent or else even more intellectually dishonest than I thought. How on earth could an architect or engineer miss something major like this? And were Cranley's appointees on the various boards who voted in favor of demolition aware of, or even the least bit curious about the possible jeopardy to the abutting structure? I'm cynical enough to wonder if the Josephs were in fact aware that the Dennison demolition would cause serious structural problems for the abutting building, and now they hope to acquire it while the owners are under duress. The Josephs should have to pay whatever (and all) costs that must be born to shore up their neighbor's building. Anything less would be a crime. There could be a domino effect if they keep tearing down this portion of Main Street. Maybe that's their game plan. It's sickening!
July 25, 20177 yr It's my understanding that Eric Lusain sold the abutting bldg. and one next to it that he owned to a group of attorneys who are turning the apartments into condos. If anyone has additional or more accurate info about the new ownership it would be of interest. If I were the owner I'd sue the Josephs, sue the consulting engineers and architects they employed in the Dennison case, and although I suspect civic board members may be immune or exempt from liability, if they're not I'd sue the ones who voted in favor of demolition too. If indeed attorneys own the former Lusain property then their legal expense outlay could be minimal. I hope they go for it. I wonder if engineers and architects can be somehow penalized for malpractice -- aside from a case where an aggrieved plaintiff sues for damages -- like, penalized/admonished by some sort of professional guild or whatever???
July 25, 20177 yr Someone just told me that the problem with the shared wall only effects the one-story addition at the back of the building (behind Big Jay's convenience store, formerly Cianciolo's), NOT the entire building. If this is true the problem isn't nearly as severe as I thought.
July 25, 20177 yr Someone just told me that the problem with the shared wall only effects the one-story addition at the back of the building (behind Big Jay's convenience store, formerly Cianciolo's), NOT the entire building. If this is true the problem isn't nearly as severe as I thought. According to the City Manager letter it calls out the 4 story portion between the main building and the one story shed. It is ten feet wide but is the full height. You can see it on google and some of the drone shots as the part with a sloping shed roof. I bet it was a porch/rear exterior stairs that got enclosed at some point in time. Havent heard about it being the one story bit.
November 8, 20177 yr From Jay Hanselman: Dennison Hotel demo update & issue w/ wall it shares with adjacent building. City memo: "The work necessary to enclose the exterior wall of the adjoining building has been agreed up by both owner of the former Dennison Hotel, located at 716 Main Street as well as the owner of the adjacent building, located at 722 Main Street. Work on the temporary wall will begin in approximately 2 weeks and is expected to take a week to construct. Once the temporary wall is complete, they will finish the remaining demolition work. When the demolition work is completed, construction of the permanent walls will begin." That work should take 6 weeks to complete.
February 23, 20187 yr Relevant to the conversation: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/02/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-american-sro/553946/
February 23, 20187 yr I deal with SROs in my job pretty often. They're a great living model for affordable living for people who don't have the means to a typical apartment or just have no desire to live in a traditional apartment or home. It's a shame they're regulated out of existence. They're quite often in such high demand these days (co-living is a huge thing these days) that when you find ones that are grandfathered in developers swarm to them. I've worked on several co-living renovations of SROs which are a completely legitimate way of living. But would be entirely illegal to build from scratch. It's one of many ways that regulation/zoning/building code has forced the housing costs upward.
October 2, 20186 yr Is anyone else REALLY happy that instead of a 9 story historic building designed by locally famed architect Samuel Hannaford, we have a 'park' that is completely fenced off from all sides and filled with artificial grass? What a f'ing travesty.
October 2, 20186 yr So who gets to use this "park"? I guess whoever has the key to the locked gate. (AKA not us)
October 2, 20186 yr The addition of tan vinyl siding is a nice touch as well. I wonder what the motivation was behind the desire to demolish the building? They cant use it for additional parking and do not seem to have any plan in place.
October 2, 20186 yr I still love that their argument was based on there being no market for residential in that area...despite the two new towers directly behind it and the new one that is likely to rise directly across the street. What a farce.
October 2, 20186 yr The addition of tan vinyl siding is a nice touch as well. I wonder what the motivation was behind the desire to demolish the building? They cant use it for additional parking and do not seem to have any plan in place. They said that they purchased it (Columbia REI/The Joseph family real estate arm) to prevent any uses that would be detrimental to their other property (currently and for decades now has been the parking lots). They demolished it in order to assemble a ready to go set of land to market to a "fortune 500 company" that would want to lease all the land to build a HQ on. Similar to what they did with the Columbia Square building (formerly the Chiquita HQ). This is the only plan they have for that area. It will stay parking till this magical company comes knocking. I assume this will stay a park until they can convince a favorable Mayor and future council to let them bend even more rules to pave it and give them the alleys they need for their mega block dreams. It isnt over till they sell it all or build something, as they will always look to tear down any building they can snag on that block.
October 2, 20186 yr Personally I think it looks like a perfect, well contained, location for all the homeless camps I keep hearing about...
October 25, 20186 yr Ron Joseph's sister sues him and loses: https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/sister-in-joseph-family-auto-company-dispute-asked-jury-for-30m-here-s-what-she-got So it's pretty obvious that Ron Joseph has been both hiding profits from the family company for decades and he's had his accountants doing it in such a way as to effectively defend against a lawsuit just like this one.
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