Guess his campaign contributions are a tad low these days

How many committes are we talking about here?  Which ones?  Why?  It's a 19 member council, why would they need to run something like this through multiple committees? 

How many committes are we talking about here?  Which ones?  Why?  It's a 19 member council, why would they need to run something like this through multiple committees? 

 

Guess his campaign contributions are a tad low these days

 

Exactly. I can't help thinking that the proverbial "suitcase full of money" would've gotten things done months ago.

I also don't like the idea of zones.  Why should 3 or 4 trucks NOT be able to park in the warehouse district or near public square ala portland, or the recent success of the tremont meet up?

 

If the the city wants to put limits, they should do it based on days and not zones.  For instance, not being able to serve more than 2 or 3 days a week downtown, with exceptions made for dinner and/or latenight as the selection of food significantly decreases after 2pm downtown.

 

not allowing this type of service and innovation to occur in your city's fastest growing census tracts makes no sense to me.

I am a huge fan of Dim and Den Sum but lets not overlook the fact that Hodgson would potentially parking his truck in front of brick and mortar restaurants during the busiest time of the day, charging less then leaving.

I agree there are issues to resolve, and it sounds like a decent solution is in the works, but this story refects very poorly on city council.

Only seeing things from the side of the food truck operator.  What about all the struggling restaurants that this outfit takes business from?  What sort of revenue does the city receive from this truck operator?  What would downtown look like with half the restaurants but a bunch of food trucks instead?  It's a slippery slope for sure, because no doubt there are copy cats waiting to see where this situation goes.  And more food trucks means less restaurant business.  I don't think it's something City Council needs to rush to a judgement on because this guy's business is hinged on their decision.  Having said that, I hope he figures out a way to survive and make money because it seems like he's got a good product.

This is just f*cking ridiculous. I visit them whenever they are downtown and this is a really well-loved and well-run little business. I was there when they were on 9th, luckily it was before whomever came out and gave them a hard time as I would have screamed at them.

 

If his product is so well loved, maybe he should open up a storefront downtown then?

I believe these businesses have already received loans from the city to open their businesses?  I agree that city council is almost entirely awful but I don't feel all that sorry for the truck operators either.

This is just f*cking ridiculous. I visit them whenever they are downtown and this is a really well-loved and well-run little business. I was there when they were on 9th, luckily it was before whomever came out and gave them a hard time as I would have screamed at them.

 

If his product is so well loved, maybe he should open up a storefront downtown then?

 

Bingo.  The food trucks are a great concept, but I don't think they should be allowed to take the place of restaurants.  I think their value is in finding places people need food when it's not easily accessible to them (outside bars late at night, at festivals, parks, etc.).  I don't know if our city streets and parking spaces should be "donated" to these food trucks so they can put restaurants (who have invested in a brick and mortar store) out of business.

Some parts of downtown are better served by restaurants than others.  Seems like keeping the trucks around E9th and CSU would cure a deficiency, while still protecting the restaurant-heavy areas closer to Public Square.  How is sending the truck to Tremont for lunch any better?  Tremont is loaded with restaurants.  The eastern half of downtown, not so much.

 

It does seem like an odd fit though, and I think the concerns about unfair competition are legit.  Pretty sure food trucks originally developed to serve factory crews, where tons of people worked in areas that had few dining options.  What they oughtta do is hit up the office parks in places like Beachwood and Independence.  People working in those places may have driveable options for lunch, but none walkable.

Only seeing things from the side of the food truck operator.  What about all the struggling restaurants that this outfit takes business from?  What sort of revenue does the city receive from this truck operator?  What would downtown look like with half the restaurants but a bunch of food trucks instead?  It's a slippery slope for sure, because no doubt there are copy cats waiting to see where this situation goes.  And more food trucks means less restaurant business.  I don't think it's something City Council needs to rush to a judgement on because this guy's business is hinged on their decision.  Having said that, I hope he figures out a way to survive and make money because it seems like he's got a good product.

 

having eaten from this truck many times around town, i don't think it necessarily takes business away from other entities, but actually grows the overall eat out crowd, at least during lunch.  the truck service is slow, there are no tables, and there are 6 or 8 items on the menu.  many people i see who show up to check out the truck ultimately end up eating someplace else - perhaps with a shorter line for a limited lunch break, or a table to sit at, or inside, etc.   

 

It also isn't particularly cheap.  everytime i have eaten from this particular truck, i have spent over $10 on food + drink.  There are plenty of alternative options where someone can find a meal and drink for $6 or 7 downtown, and some for less.

 

with the proper licensing and permit restrictions/fees, i don't think the city loses anything here revenue wise.  the truck pays for permits and licenses, and does rent a local cleveland kitchen to prep and store food.  i guess sales tax isn't charged as everything is takeaway, so RTA loses that 1%, but no different than driving through a mcdonalds in the city and not paying sales tax either.  He presumably pays all of the associated state, federal, and local income and withholding taxes for his employees, and local shops to maintain his vehicle.

 

and, in my mind, the "oportunistic nature" of the business - ie, only showing up for the busy hours each week - is no different than the club on west 6th that only opens on thurs, fri and saturday night.  what are they doing for the city at lunch on a tuesday?  or a wednesday evening?

If those restaurants have a quality product and good food then they have nothing at all to worry about. Giving people options is a good thing and it's proven over and over again that adding options doesn't ruin it for other businesses at all, in fact it can help grow the business fore everyone. Short sided thinking is so sad!

Only seeing things from the side of the food truck operator.  What about all the struggling restaurants that this outfit takes business from?  What sort of revenue does the city receive from this truck operator?  What would downtown look like with half the restaurants but a bunch of food trucks instead?  It's a slippery slope for sure, because no doubt there are copy cats waiting to see where this situation goes.  And more food trucks means less restaurant business.  I don't think it's something City Council needs to rush to a judgement on because this guy's business is hinged on their decision.  Having said that, I hope he figures out a way to survive and make money because it seems like he's got a good product.

Food Truck Owner Fights for Right to Serve Cleveland

CLEVELAND— An unresolved permit issue has left the owner of a local food truck begging for action.

 

"I want to do it here, very badly," said Chris Hodgson from Dim & Den Sum. The Cleveland-based food truck has been in operation for a year, but the rolling restaurant was sidelined by the city after Chris discovered his paid permits aren't good enough.

 

"We have a permit to be servicing food in Ward 3," said Hodgson. "However, it has come to our attention there's a little part that says 'no CBD.' I don't know what CBD means, we know now it means Central Business District, that's all of downtown."

 

http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-food-truck-controversy-dim-and-den-sum-txt,0,3521021.story

hell on wheels: why food truck owners are feeling the heat

Douglas Trattner | Thursday, April 14, 2011

 

t was one of those deceivingly sunny late March days that we have here in Cleveland -- unseasonably cold, yet still more hopeful than February. Nevertheless, Tremont's Lincoln Park was bustling.

 

As many as 2,000 people flooded the square, lured from their cozy nests by the promise of Polish boys, tater tots, and pad Thai in a paper box. Lines some 50 deep formed in front of the dozen or so food trucks that participated in the inaugural C-Town Chow Down. Crowds were so large that eventually everyone ran out of food and the party dispersed.

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/features/foodtrucklaws041411.aspx

Cleveland: The Anti-Food Truck City

Posted by Vince Grzegorek on Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:49 AM

 

But how hard could it be, right? Get a truck, get a permit, get inspected, pick a spot, serve food. Yeah, not so fast my friend.

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/04/14/cleveland-the-anti-food-truck-city

i know the city seems to be getting a lot of crap for this right now... but I think most of it is undue.

 

1. I think there should be some level of sesitivity to where trucks can park.

2. I happened to be at the city planning commission meeting 2 weeks ago for an unrelated item and sat through the presentation of the new food truck ordinance, and it is really well thought out and progressive, that will probably be one of the more comprehensive pieces of legislation in the country.

3. right now it is a real mess, but they have been working on this for a while and this is the home stretch, it should be passed in a couple weeks so I am not sure why they are making a big issue of it right now.

4. I found out that it has been made implicity clear to these guys that they can be downtown but until the legislation is passed they need to be on private property... i.e. a parking lot. You know the ones that last several blocks right in the center of our downtown next to public square. Connections have even been given to operators of who to talk to.

 

Given all of this, I find it really surprising at the way they have handled this all out media assault.

From Fresh Water:

 

"But if and when that happens, food truck owners still are not likely to be pleased. In its current form, the revised legislation will indeed streamline the permitting process, but it will also limit truck access to a few specific zones outside the city center. Those zones include E. Ninth Street, Cuyahoga Community College, and University Circle. Special permits would still be needed for areas outside those zones."

 

Ok, that's just SILLY. ONE location, E 9th street, is acceptable to serve all of downtown? I have gone to the truck at Star Plaza, at the farmer's market on public square, at Mall C, by E 9th, etc.  This is probably part of why this is getting so much attention now, because even after the ridiculously complex and business-killing stage is over and the New and Improved way of approving these trucks happens, there are still uphill battles like this one.

 

Actually also CSU area which includes playhouse square. And no, i do not think it is asking too much to have the trucks in areas where there are fewer restaurants.

Very timely episode of CSI:NY last Friday night.  EVen if you dont like the show, check this episode out, it revolves around gourmet food trucks and the EXACT same anger that restaurants are facing with these trucks.  Here is the link...45 minutes of your night if you have it:

 

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/csi_ny/video/?pid=zNL5RqGszPxxZGzoFiR6fcvOMLeRNh5G

 

 

^I couldnt help but think of the entire Cleveland situation when watching this.

 

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/csi_ny/video/?pid=zNL5RqGszPxxZGzoFiR6fcvOMLeRNh5G

 

Here it is again.

From Fresh Water:

 

"But if and when that happens, food truck owners still are not likely to be pleased. In its current form, the revised legislation will indeed streamline the permitting process, but it will also limit truck access to a few specific zones outside the city center. Those zones include E. Ninth Street, Cuyahoga Community College, and University Circle. Special permits would still be needed for areas outside those zones."

 

Ok, that's just SILLY. ONE location, E 9th street, is acceptable to serve all of downtown? I have gone to the truck at Star Plaza, at the farmer's market on public square, at Mall C, by E 9th, etc.  This is probably part of why this is getting so much attention now, because even after the ridiculously complex and business-killing stage is over and the New and Improved way of approving these trucks happens, there are still uphill battles like this one.

 

 

Also, that area is meant to be expanded in the future.  While everyone here seems at least moderately familiar with the concept there are probably a good number of small restaurant owners that don't understand how these options could help their business, not hurt it.  So placing the vendors where there is a dearth of food options, and E 9th fits the bill in spades, is not a bad start.  I think Chiperman mentioned that they would be looking to expand the venues in six months or so.

Speaking of Food Trucks.  Fahrenheit was out at the corner of E6th and Superior.  I think we may be entering an age of guerrilla Food Trucks.

Speaking of Food Trucks.  Fahrenheit was out at the corner of E6th and Superior.  I think we may be entering an age of guerrilla Food Trucks.

 

Yes they were, and apparently didnt go unnoticed..:

 

Restaurateur Rocco Whalen brings food truck downtown, gets cited by the cityCLEVELAND, Ohio — Fahrenheit chef/owner Rocco Whalen decided to take a stand on the illegality of food trucks in downtown Cleveland on Friday.....

the city added a couple of sour dishes in the form of two citations -- one for failing to have a peddler's license, the other for selling food from a truck in the central business district without a license.......

"They're just angry people," he said of city inspectors, who showed up after a hot dog vendor called to complain. (Note to hot dog vendor: The people lining up for cod sandwiches aren't going to buy hot dogs instead.)......  "Cleveland has a way of making every situation harder than it has to be."

http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2011/04/restaurateur_rocco_whalen_brin.html

 

 

Now there's a quote

(Note to hot dog vendor: The people lining up for cod sandwiches aren't going to buy hot dogs instead.)

 

Funny.

Columbus today has several dozens of food trucks all over the city vs. forcing them into a few tiny food truck zones. This is one area (out of few) where the local city government surprisingly "gets it". Columbus will glady take those food truck entrepreneurs if you don't want them and if the city really knew what it was doing it would be actively inviting these individuals to a much more welcoming environment.

This is why we're so far behind on so many things.  Market schmarket, there's poverty but there's still plenty of money around here too.  It's just difficult for any community to overcome leadership of this caliber.  Last month it was the apartments in University Circle and now this.  I'll grant that there's some gray area on this issue, but for it to still be stuck in committee(s)(!) is an absolute outrage.   

What happened to the food cart initiative that would allow local restaurants to offer fare on the streets? I heard it was supposed to be green and everything....promote least waste and litter and a lot of good. I have not heard about that in a long time. On the other hand...  is all we do here is EAT? I have an idea...  How about a gym cart that offers on the spot work outs/therapy massage for ten minutes and then sending you off on your way!

I don't get the fascination with these food trucks. Some of you seem to be convinced that its some kind of status symbol having these things flood the streets. Sorry but I'll pass. I would much rather see the business go to the restaurants that have invested in the city. There are enough of empty store fronts to go around to those who want to make the full commitment. I have no problem with the dude from Fahrenheit looking for different sources of revenue. He is already commited to the city. Besides theres something about food preparation and diesel fuel that just doesn't do it for me. And paying $15 to eat out of a Styrofoam container with a plastic fork doesn't appeal to me. And its a good bet these food containers will just end up on the street for someone else to pick up. So I hope the city looks at this very carefully and puts the right restrictions on them. I would have less of a problem if these were just coffee or smoothie trucks serving liquids and bagels in the morning. We have a very strong restaurant community lets make sure we don't screw that up.

I don't get the fascination with these food trucks. Some of you seem to be convinced that its some kind of status symbol having these things flood the streets. Sorry but I'll pass. I would much rather see the business go to the restaurants that have invested in the city. There are enough of empty store fronts to go around to those who want to make the full commitment. I have no problem with the dude from Fahrenheit looking for different sources of revenue. He is already commited to the city. Besides theres something about food preparation and diesel fuel that just doesn't do it for me. And paying $15 to eat out of a Styrofoam container with a plastic fork doesn't appeal to me. And its a good bet these food containers will just end up on the street for someone else to pick up. So I hope the city looks at this very carefully and puts the right restrictions on them. I would have less of a problem if these were just coffee or smoothie trucks serving liquids and bagels in the morning. We have a very strong restaurant community lets make sure we don't screw that up.

 

My sentiments exactly.  The last thing I'd want to see is our restaurants scene disappear and become a food cart scene.  If they can both coexist then fine.  But I think it's great people are tiptoeing into this rather than opening the flood gates without first figuring out the best approach for everybody involved.

Serious question: what "restaurants" do y'all think lose business to food trucks?  I always assumed it was just Subway, Au Bon Pain and the other take-out type places (of which there seem to be precious few local/independent options), but do you think it also cuts in on the sit-down action of East 4th, WHD and other places?

 

Of the Cleveland food trucks, do they have smelly and noisy diesel generators?

My opinion: It really disappoints me that when Dim and Den Sum threatens to leave Cleveland and asks people to flood Cleveland City Council with calls and emails about permitting, they flock to do it.  There are so many other pertinent issues in this city on which that energy can be used. 

You might not like Subway or Au Bon Pain, but it is still is nice to have for some, and it fills up what would be an empty store front. Im sorry, but I prefer a occupied storefront over a truck serving food on the side of the road.

You might not like Subway or Au Bon Pain, but it is still is nice to have for some, and it fills up what would be an empty store front. Im sorry, but I prefer a occupied storefront over a truck serving food on the side of the road.

 

I have sympathy for the "occupied storefront" side of the argument.  Even that is debatable though. I have more of a problem with restricting freedom of choice.  Give consumers the option of choosing what they want.

^^No, I hear you, I was asking that in a neutral way.  I don't wish ill to Subway or Au Bon Pain [OK, maybe to Au Bon Pain for always tempting me with those fragrant asiago bagels].  I was just curious what people thought specifically was at stake here.  Based on some earlier comments, I think there may be some disagreement on that question.

 

Personally, I think the lunchtime take-out scene downtown is still pretty weak (though very slowly improving), so I strongly favor more alternatives to the food court/chain fast food places, but I also agree with freethink that people seem to be fixating a little too much on the number of foodtrucks as some kind of "coolness" measure.  And based on experience in other cities, the trucks themselves are a bit of a disamenity if they are noisy and smelly because of their generators.  Not sure if people find that to be the case in Cleveland.

 

Sort of cracked me up that the hot dog vendor was the one who made the complaint about the Fahrenheit truck.  I have nothing against hot dog vendors, but seems to me any business they lose is simply because of fair competition.

I consider myself one of our more strong "foodies" on the board, along with mrnyc who I know from some other food-related sites and I can tell you that food trucks ARE a symbol of a city's vibrancy and interesting food "flexibility." It is but a component, a bookend to a burgeoning and exciting food scene and something that is seen as GREAT by many, many food-focused travelers who come to a town, want to enjoy the nightlife, walk around here and there and maybe sample a little bit of food here and a little bit there and have it good, exciting, tasty and new. Everyone doesn't want to sit down at Lola and drop $150 for 2 hours, they want to hit a bar, get a snack, hit another bar, etc. In some sense, food trucks are almost like a "tapas" way to "taste" a city's fun and inventive wares. I understand if there are those of you who don't agree but I can tell you from my daily participation in a NUMBER of food-related sites, people will specifically look for what trucks or quick-stands they can visit when going to a new city, and it is seen as a part of the vibrancy and food scene of a place. 

 

It is not a competition with sit-down restaurants. I mean, christ, have you all SEEN the amount of trucks in places like LA and NYC? There is plenty of room and plenty of business for those who want a subway sandwich for $5 and those who want a PBLT from Dim and Den Sum for $6, nobody is trying to put anyone out of business. When Crop opened next to Johnny's, were they trying to put Johnny's out of business? This argument is inane and IMO speaks to a complete misunderstanding of what the food-focused traveler is looking for.

 

Lest you think there aren't people coming to cleveland JUST for the food, in fact, there ARE. I talk to them all the time via my participation in both food and travel boards, and am one of the organizers of a large group of very food-snobby foodies who are coming to town for the regional "Midwestern" gathering, which rotates across several states and cities - this is in fact the 2nd time in less than 8 years where Cleveland has been chosen for this gathering, which brings in chefs, food photographers, bloggers, professional food writers and journalists and just those who love good food and who participate on this particular site.

 

I also agree the lunchtime takeout scene remains really weak downtown. If I want something quick, fast and tasty, my choices are pretty limited and still largely revolve around chains like au bon pain. I took a chance on a small, indie chinese place today and the food was so bad I had to throw it out. I threw out an inedible piece of salmon from the place next door to it last week. I can't afford to keep buying food out and throwing it away because it's awful. I've never thrown out anything I've eaten from dim and den sum or umami moto, it's TASTY.

^I pretty much agree with most of that, though I know a lot of us cringe at comparisons to NYC/LA, because the demand dynamic is so different there.  Really, the nub for me is just how much substantive variety these trucks can add to the downtown lunch/after hours take-out scene and how limited it is without them.  This is a real amenity for downtown workers and residents, let alone any food visitors.  Just seems weird to deny that amenity without some kind of public purpose that benefits more than just the existing businesses, which is a pretty lousy, anti-resident justification.  So unless someone tells me they (or their crowds) are keeping people up at night, or how they're killing asthmatics, I don't really get why limiting the trucks is a good idea.

 

Anyone know if this legislation also limits where hot dog vendors operate?  Seems like if competition is the problem, they should be restricted too.

 

I admit I'm a little rusty on downtown take-out options (I haven't worked downtown in more than a decade, though I visit regularly).  What are the current take-out options that aren't typical fast food formats, chain sub shops or middling delis?  Please correct/add on to this list- I'm really curious how many of these types of places there are.

 

Flaming Ice Cube

Vincenza's

The Hungarian place, Indies and noodle place in Arcade food court

A couple independent Chinese places (of very mixed quality I gather)

There's Greek Express in the old arcade, which has 3 passable meals IMO (spinach pie, chicken curry kabob, cauliflower curry - thursdays only). There's Ticket to Tokyo, where I have yet to have a decent meal, I only go there when co-workers make me. There's Teahouse Noodles, the type of food I am in the mood for maybe once a YEAR (I always have terrible onion breath after eating there), there's Mikes deli/pastry shop, which doesn't have very good food (Superior across from the library/corner of E 6th). You can get takeout from the Market Cafe on 9th but it's expensive, though good. There's Zoup on Euclid, which has good salad but pretty bad soup and mediocre sandwiches. I also really like It's Greek to Me on the upper floor of the TC food court, they have a good vegetarian meze platter. That's really about it.

Saigon?

 

IMO, Teahouse Noodles is good and the price is right.

Saigon is really a sit down restaurant that offers takeout, not the same thing as a more takeout-focused place. I mean, Tomaydo Tomahto, another one I forgot, has some tables but it's really a counter service restaurant. Any place that is counter service IMO is a fast-casual takeout place, even if they have a few tables. Different than a table service place. There's also captain tony's there in that little plaza.

Daves Cosmic Subs, better than Jimmy Johns by far, by Tea House Noodles but they may have reached chain status. 

 

Tuckey's @ Reserve Square- its not "good" food, but it is that great bad food for those days when you really need something greasy.

 

 

I sent Cimperman an email and his assistant replied.  That was interesting that I received a response.  Yes, I'm very concerned about this and I also feel that the trucks make the food scene and downtown more vibrant.  I rarely sit down to eat lunch and I work downtown so options like these are important to me.

 

RE Takeout:  Not exactly downtown but on E30th between Superior and St. Clair is Tastebuds. 

 

 

I love tastebuds, and slymans and many others that basically require either a car or at least 1:45-2 hours for lunch if you're going to walk.

Slyman's is one that could really benefit from a truck.  Its physical location is kinda obsolete, not nearly as much employment around there anymore.

they are doing a fantastic business, there is always a line out the door and really "need" no truck, but us downtown proper workers would sure love to see one, for sure.

Food trucks can't yet park on downtown Cleveland streets, but Cuyahoga County is open for business.

 

On Friday, Dim and Den Sum -- purveyors of fish tacos and pork BLTs -- will serve office crowds from a small Ontario Street parking lot, behind the county administration building.

 

The truck will be open 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., said county spokeswoman Nicole Dailey Jones. And in future lunch hours, other Cleveland food trucks may feature daily specials from the lot.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2011/04/cuyahoga_county_to_open_parking_lot_for_food_truck.html

that's a brilliant move! I feel bad for those in the DT area who are not near this particular section of downtown though. I've walked up to star plaza to eat at the truck for example, it does a brisk businsess.

like i said though, this is odd. they have been told they are allowed to use many of the private lots dt.

like i said though, this is odd. they have been told they are allowed to use many of the private lots dt.

 

I agree about this whole controversy about food trucks in the CBD being a bit odd.  Part of me wonders if Dim and Den Sum received a grant/loan from the City's food cart program.  A grant from the City may include requirements on where the truck does business.

 

If so, the City may have been upset about their grant/loan money being used to fund a food truck that spends a good portion of its time in office parks OUTSIDE the City.  By arguing that the law doesn't allow them to serve in the CBD Dim and Den Sum may be trying to find a way to justify the locations it decides to serve.  Again, this is pure speculation, but highly plausible.