Metro or micro area	Estimated population (as of Aug. 4, 2010)	Rank (of 940 areas)	 
Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN	2,190,062	24
Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH	2,084,865	29	
Columbus, OH	1,825,611	32	
Dayton, OH	833,052	61	
Akron, OH	699,931	74	
Toledo, OH	672,291	80	
Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA	558,378	91	
Canton-Massillon, OH	407,890	126	
Springfield, OH	139,233	295	
Mansfield, OH	123,867	326	
Wooster, OH	114,462	351	
East Liverpool-Salem, OH	107,200	366
Lima, OH	103,952	376	
Ashtabula, OH	100,472	385	
New Philadelphia-Dover, OH	91,084	415	
Zanesville, OH	84,821	431	
Sandusky, OH	76,684	462	
Portsmouth, OH	76,215	464	
Chillicothe, OH	76,201	465	
Findlay, OH	74,825	470

 

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/blog/the_score/2010/08/buffalo_hangs_on_to_50th_place.html

No surprises there!

Since the Census has not come out, I feel, no offense, that the title of this thread is not accurate.

 

This information was generated from a program Business First has a computer program that can estimate the population of any state, area, county, city or town on any given day. It analyzes population trends from the past 10 years, and uses that data to issue updated figures.

 

We fine-tune the program every few months, feeding in the latest data from the U.S. Census Bureau. The latest revisions have just been completed, yielding a fresh batch of numbers.

 

Perhaps changing the title to "Ohio Metro Population Estimates" or "2010 population trends" as other threads are titled.

 

 

Well the census is an estimate except for every 10 years.

The census is only held every 10 years.

and census accuracy isn't all that great.

 

Am I the only one who does not care about metro numbers?  During Cleveland's worse years the metro numbers stayed the same, but urban life was horrible. 

Metro Detroit is still huge, but really is that a good, bad or none of the above?

 

 

Well, metropolitan areas are the new city in this day in age.  City populations are irrelevant in the larger scheme of things unless one truly thinks Jacksonville is a "bigger city" than Boston and Washington DC.  Sure, core cities suffer the most but if the metropolitan area is declining, that makes the city decline much worse.  Metro Detroit is still doing okay (not great) and hasn't recorded a population decline.  And I believe Metro Pittsburgh actually grew for the first time in, well, forever which is great news.

Why does Cincy show Oh, In, Ky, but only list cities in Ohio for its population count (Cincinnatti-Middletown).

Because there are no significant cities in either KY or IN to share an MSA designation.  The largest outside Ohio is Covington and it is smaller than Middletown and Hamilton.

Cbus is a surprise only to the degree to which it is quickly coming up on the 2 mil. number.

So is Akron part of the CLE metro per the census or not?

Akron is not a part of Cleveland's MSA but is a part of Cleveland's CSA.

 

So yes and no.  Whichever way you want to look at it.  If you think "Metro Cleveland" is the CSA, then it's Cleveland-Akron-Elyria-(Lorain)-(Ashtabula).  If you think "Metro Cleveland" as just Cleveland and its suburbs, then Akron is not included.

nope. they have their own MSA which is crazy considering the overlap. 

It's not crazy.  Akron has its own suburbs, its own significant commercial center to justify having commuters, and thus has its own MSA.  No one in their right mind would think Barberton is a suburb of Cleveland (at least I would hope not).

 

But Akron IS a part of Cleveland's CSA so really, it's a win-win for Clevelanders and Akronites.

Has anyone heard anything about the merger of Cincinnati and Dayton metro's? I had heard that when the 2010 census results were released, that the two metros would be considered one large metro of over 3 million?

Does anyone know the square miles each metro covers and the density in the populations?  With Cleveland being landlocked by the lake immediately to the north and by the Akron suburbs (many of which have more commuters to Cleveland, than to Akron IMO) about 20 miles to the south, I imagine our metro runs much farther to the east/west.

 

CDM, I know you go by the strict definitions of metros, but I still think the definition is unevenly applied.  Take where I spent 7 years of my life - the Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem area.  That is one metro, but there is much more of a divide between those cities than there is between Cleveland-Akron or Cincy-Dayton.  There actually is farmland and dirt roads in the areas between those cities.  Also, commuters rarely travel between them for work.  It is much more divided than the research triangle in the middle of the state.

Let's not turn this in to another "Akron should be part of Cleveland's MSA" or "CinDay MSA" Thread. We already have enough of those and the conversation is exhausting.

Does anyone know the square miles each metro covers and the density in the populations? With Cleveland being landlocked by the lake immediately to the north and by the Akron suburbs (many of which have more commuters to Cleveland, than to Akron IMO) about 20 miles to the south, I imagine our metro runs much farther to the east/west.

 

CDM, I know you go by the strict definitions of metros, but I still think the definition is unevenly applied. Take where I spent 7 years of my life - the Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem area. That is one metro, but there is much more of a divide between those cities than there is between Cleveland-Akron or Cincy-Dayton. There actually is farmland and dirt roads in the areas between those cities. Also, commuters rarely travel between them for work. It is much more divided than the research triangle in the middle of the state.

 

Actually, Greensboro, High Point, and Winston-Salem are seperate MSA's but they are a single CSA, much like Cleveland and Akron.  I don't get why Clevelanders want to add Akron into an MSA when A). it's not logical and B). it's already in Cleveland's CSA.  The "Cin-Day" metro thing doesn't even have a CSA yet.

OK.  Just checked and you are in part right.  Greensboro-High Point is one MSA.  Winston Salem is separate.  That makes more sense but there still is a definitive divide between G-boro and HP.

 

Anyway to figure out square mileage and density for the MSA's?

Well, High Point (I'm presuming) isn't as significant as an employment center (I thought it was but I guess not!) as Greensboro.  Meaning, even if there is a divide, it'd be like Lorain and Cleveland.  I'm sure folks in Lorain don't like to think of themselves as a "suburb of Cleveland" and has its own seperate identity but it clearly falls within Cleveland's economic pull.  I'm assuming High Point is the same with Greensboro.

Eh... not really, but I'm sure the equation is much more complicated than one person's observations.  Anyways, getting back on topic, how bout those density numbers?  Are they available yet?

Does anyone know the square miles each metro covers and the density in the populations? With Cleveland being landlocked by the lake immediately to the north and by the Akron suburbs (many of which have more commuters to Cleveland, than to Akron IMO) about 20 miles to the south, I imagine our metro runs much farther to the east/west.

 

CDM, I know you go by the strict definitions of metros, but I still think the definition is unevenly applied. Take where I spent 7 years of my life - the Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem area. That is one metro, but there is much more of a divide between those cities than there is between Cleveland-Akron or Cincy-Dayton. There actually is farmland and dirt roads in the areas between those cities. Also, commuters rarely travel between them for work. It is much more divided than the research triangle in the middle of the state.

 

Actually, Greensboro, High Point, and Winston-Salem are seperate MSA's but they are a single CSA, much like Cleveland and Akron. I don't get why Clevelanders want to add Akron into an MSA when A). it's not logical and B). it's already in Cleveland's CSA. The "Cin-Day" metro thing doesn't even have a CSA yet.

 

Quite right about the fact that Akron is included in the Consolidated Statisitcal Area of Cleveland.  The MSA is different and the two are separate because each is unique.  the same holds true for New York City and Newark.  Same CSA but different MSA.  Even Patterson, NJ and Bergen County are separate MSA's within the NYC CSA.

Not until the 2010 Census is out.  Otherwise, you'll have to rely on old 2000 GIS maps LOL!

 

Square milage is easy. Just add up the counties that's a part of each MSA.

Does anyone know the square miles each metro covers and the density in the populations? With Cleveland being landlocked by the lake immediately to the north and by the Akron suburbs (many of which have more commuters to Cleveland, than to Akron IMO) about 20 miles to the south, I imagine our metro runs much farther to the east/west.

 

CDM, I know you go by the strict definitions of metros, but I still think the definition is unevenly applied. Take where I spent 7 years of my life - the Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem area. That is one metro, but there is much more of a divide between those cities than there is between Cleveland-Akron or Cincy-Dayton. There actually is farmland and dirt roads in the areas between those cities. Also, commuters rarely travel between them for work. It is much more divided than the research triangle in the middle of the state.

 

Actually, Greensboro, High Point, and Winston-Salem are seperate MSA's but they are a single CSA, much like Cleveland and Akron. I don't get why Clevelanders want to add Akron into an MSA when A). it's not logical and B). it's already in Cleveland's CSA. The "Cin-Day" metro thing doesn't even have a CSA yet.

 

Quite right about the fact that Akron is included in the Consolidated Statisitcal Area of Cleveland. The MSA is different and the two are separate because each is unique. the same holds true for New York City and Newark. Same CSA but different MSA. Even Patterson, NJ and Bergen County are separate MSA's within the NYC CSA.

 

Bingo. 

I didnt say ALL the akron suburbs, but many could easily count for cleveland and not akron. 

I didnt say ALL the akron suburbs, but many could easily count for cleveland and not akron.

 

Nope, no can do.  CSAs (and MSAs and µSAs) are county-based. The Akron MSA consists of Summit and Portage Counties, and you can't split off municipalities from counties to make them a part of a neighboring MSA.

I didnt say ALL the akron suburbs, but many could easily count for cleveland and not akron.

 

Sure, and that's why Akron is in Cleveland's CSA.  So what's the problem?

The problem is that the suburban areas in northern Summit County and northwest Portage County are as much, if not more so, a part of the Cleveland area than the Akron.  But because of a fluke of an arbitrary line on a map, they're considered part of Akron's metro area.

 

It would make the Census Bureau's job even more difficult (god forbid!), but they should move away from the idea of counties as the basis for their metropolitan areas.  I know that in New England, "towns" are used instead of counties, but that's because counties have all but been eliminated as entities in that part of the country.

 

None of this is terribly important, it's just worth noting and putting an asterisk next to the numbers because of their inconsistency.

^Same can be said for Springboro in the Cincinnati MSA but it's for sure a Dayton suburb.

Not until the 2010 Census is out.  Otherwise, you'll have to rely on old 2000 GIS maps LOL!

 

Square milage is easy. Just add up the counties that's a part of each MSA.

 

It actually was pretty easy and I was able to rough some numbers up while eating my lunch.  Keep in mind that the following statistics are from the always reliable wikipedia ;).  Here's the breakdown I came up with.

 

Cincy Metro - 4,399 sq. mi. for a pop. density of 498/sq. mi.

C-bus Metro - 3,983 sq. mi. for a pop. density of 458/sq. mi.

Cleveland Metro - 2,004 sq. mi. for a pop density of 1040/sq. mi.

 

The areas exlude water (some of Cleveland metro's counties are nearly or more than half in the lake) and is based on the following:

 

Cincy's metro includes 15 counties - 3 in Indiana (Dearborn, Franklin, Ohio), 7 in Kentucky (Boone, Bracken, Campbell, Gallatin, Grant, Kenton, Pendleton), and 5 in Ohio (Brown, Clermont, Hamilton, Warren, Butler)

 

C-Bus's metro includes 8 counties (Delaware, Fairfield, Franklin, Licking, Madison, Morrow, Pickaway, Union)) all in Ohio.

 

Cleveland's metro includes 5 counties (Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain, Medina) all in Ohio.

Well much of Cincy the  area can't be built on because of steep hills and river valleys.

Well much of Cincy the  area can't be built on because of steep hills and river valleys.

:wtf:

Well much of Cincy the  area can't be built on because of steep hills and river valleys.

:wtf:

 

I believe unusualfire is responding to my post (last one on the first page).  I don't know what the point is though.  I think the lower level of density is more because the metro area stretches so far into several rural counties.  If you rule out Cincy metro's out of state population, its size is 5 counties (just like Greater Cleveland MSA) at a size of 2,218 sq. mi. (only slightly larger than Greater Cleveland), a population of nearly 1.7 mill and a density of 748/sq. mi. (which is much more comparable).  It's the multiple smaller, scarcely populated counties in Kentucky and Indiana that drag down the population density to less than half of Greater Cleveland's.

Actually, from an urbanized standpoint, it would be more appropriate to use Hamilton, Clermont, Butler, and Warren in Ohio, and Boone, Kenton, and Campbell in Kentucky.  I used the old April estimate but that population was 1,991,050 in approximately 2300-2400 square miles.

Well, I didn't want to start going down the rabbit's hole, but I get your point.  By that 'urbanized' standard, I would take mostly rural Geauga County away from Greater Cleveland's numbers - and wind up with 1.96 million over approx. 1600 sq. miles

and just to add to this and explain why CIncy has so many counties in its MSA... its b/c all of those KY counties are geographically small in size, which allows counties like Pendleton County to be included since its still relatively close even though its largely rural.  And I mean...Pendleton County only has 15,000 people or so and its 281 sq. miles.  So this definitely drags down Cincy's density. 

Lately I'm pretty down on MSAs as a basis on which to compare cities. They're better than cities proper, sure, but as the conversations in this thread demonstrate the county-based definition of MSAs is problematic. County boundaries are every bit as arbitrary as city boundaries—just bigger (usually). To directly compare city stats (especially density) the urbanized area is the best measure from the Census, but sadly we only get that level of measurement once every ten years!