I spent quite a bit of time walking around Northside on Saturday.  More on that later ...

 

But I was wondering...I know two railroads came through here, the one thats active, and the one that is along were Vandalia Avenue is.  Did any of these have railroad stations in Northside?  I was curious because the place seems pretty old, pre streetcar, so I was wondering if there was sort of commuter thing going on in the 19th century.

 

Also, seems like the neighborhood sort of fuzzes out as you reach Spring Grove avenue & Mill Creek (and the old Canal)?  Was this area more developed in the past?

 

And surely there must have been a different connection "up the hill".  That Ludlow Avenue viaduct is pretty new. Did Ludlow enter the neighborhood differently in the past?

 

 

<a href="http://www.historicaerials.com/?poi=12302"><img src="http://www.historicaerials.com/featuredPOIImage.aspx?poi=12302" /></a>

 

 

The present Ludlow Viaduct is actually the 3rd viaduct to be built there. The first one connected "Old Ludlow" (the old alignment of Ludlow that can be seen in the Clifton area) with that little segment of Ludlow that's right next to the White Castle. I don't know when that bridge was built, but I've seen it in pics from the 1890's. In 1914, it was replaced with a viaduct that ran pretty much in the same exact spot as the present one - and I believe that was when Ludlow was realigned in the Clifton area as well. The old Ludlow Viaduct was replaced with the present "interstate"-looking one in 1991, I think.

 

Here's an image of an old postcard with the 2nd viaduct (1914)...

http://www.cincinnativiews.net/images-3/Ludlow%20Viaduct%20Mill%20Creek.jpg

 

    The abandoned railroad through Northside was the Cincinnati, Hamilton, and Dayton railroad, which was the second railroad in Cincinnati and the first one in the Mill Creek valley.

 

    The same railroad passed through Glendale, which is known for being an early railroad commuter town.

 

    I am not aware of any stations in Northside, but if anyone knows, please share. I have been looking for a good book about the CH&D. Anyone know of one?

 

    The Cincinnati and Lake Erie had a terminal in Northside and a connection with the CH&D, but that's another story.

Northside (or Cumminsville - as parts of it were called for most of its early history, South Cumminsville still exists as a designation, but Cumminsville is less used) was hit really hard by the '37 flood. It was more of a middle-class neighborhood pre-flood, but declined class-wise after the flood and fear that the floods would return (less of a fear now due to a lot of work on the Mill Creek Valley and general flood management).

http://books.google.com/books?id=I5RO0rglQRAC&pg=PA130&dq=northside+cincinnati&hl=en&ei=ZL1gTI-QJcSblge_gbnnCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=northside%20cincinnati&f=false

There were a few stations in Northside, though to say "commuter" traffic is a bit unrealistic.  Generally only the fairly well-to-do could afford to commute daily by railroad.  The rest generally lived and worked in the immediate area, with only infrequent trips to downtown. 

 

Anyway, the CH&D had a station on Elmore in South Cumminsville called Southside, then there was the main Cumminsville station at Hamilton Avenue.  In the early days of the College Hill Railroad they also had a College Hill Junction station at Dane Avenue, but that was presumably removed when the Ohio Electric took over the College Hill Railroad and converted it to an electric interurban, so they stopped interchanging passengers with the CH&D.  The B&O Cumminsville station was near Colerain, and they also had an East Cumminsville station. 

 

You can see the locations of the stations on my railroad map at:

 

http://homepage.mac.com/jjakucyk/Transit1/map70.jpeg

 

Or on this stitched together 1912 USGS topographic survey, which also shows the old layout of Ludlow Avenue when the viaduct was under construction, among other things:

 

http://homepage.mac.com/jjakucyk/northsidelarge.jpg

Wow...thanks a bunch for the responses, and especially for the links and maps!  The place is getting even more interesting with this background! 

 

I guess that Spring Grove trolley line that appears on the topo was the main connection back into Cincinnati? 

Spring Grove and Colerain were both busy routes.  I'm not sure if one was any more frequent or heavily trafficked than another.  Even Ludlow was an option too, I guess it just depended on whether or not one might drop you off closer to where you worked.  It was definitely a very well connected neighborhood, hence part of the reason Knowlton's Corner was the third busiest business district in the city behind downtown and Peeble's Corner. 

^

Which line came first?  I'd think Spring Grove since it went to the cemetary.  Was this (or Colerain) a horse car or steam dummy before electrification?  Or was it always electric?

Spring Grove was the first, it was originally a horsecar line built sometime in the 1860s.  It was even the first candidate for upgrading to a cable car line in the 1870s, but by then the other horsecar companies blocked it for fear of competition (sound familiar?)  I'd need to do some digging to figure out when all the other lines were built though.  You might enjoy reading through my history of the street railway at http://homepage.mac.com/jjakucyk/Transit1/streetcarinfo.html

^

Yes, thank you!  I am going to have to get that Arcadia Press book, too.  I think its for sale over at Shake-It Records.

 

 

 

 

    The courses through Cumminsville of the two early military roads, which have become historic and form the bases of tavel and traffic routes of the present day, are of interest. One, the most westerly of three well-defined trails, was traversed by St. Claris army when it left Ludlow's Station on its way to the ill-fated field of the east branch of the Wabash (1791). The expedition moved along the hills to the west of Millcreek Valley almost exactly on what was afterward made into the "Mount Pleasant and Hamilton Turnpike." and where are now a large part of Cumminsville, College Hill, and the village of Mount Healthy, thence to the Miami River, where St. Clair built Fort Hamilton. The portion of this road passing through Cumminsville will at once be recognized as the present Hamilton Avenue. This road is frequently referred to in local history as "St. Clair's Trace" or "St. Clair's Trail."

   

    The second road, and the one of greatest importance in the growth of the town, was that taken by "Mad Anthony" Wayne in 1793. It followed the general course of an old trace running along the MillCreek Valley, which had but recently (1792) opened as the "great road" from Cincinnati to White's Station (now Carthage). This was later known as the "Carthage Road." and occupied almost identically the course of the present Spring Grove Avenue. This is frequently alluded to as "Wayne's Trace" or "Wayne's Trail."

 

    Both St. Clair's and Wayne's Traces met at what is now Knowton's Corner, and continued as a single road into the town of Cincinnati (town in 1802, city after 1819) by way of McHenry's Ford across Millcreek, follwing practically the course of the present McMicken Avenue "to the northeast corner of the meetinghouse in Cincinnati."

 

 

    -Souvenir History of Cumminsville

 

 

 

   

  Here is my attempt to locate the pioneer roads that formed the backbone of Northsides street layout:

 

 

  Except for the dual Spring Grove / Colerain branch to the south, all of the other roads are dendritic, and followed natural drainage, fanning out to the west, north, and northeast. This led to so many funky angles in Northside, and continued nightmares for traffic engineers. Interstates 74 and 75 even mimic the pioneer roads.

 

    I'm not sure how McMicken Avenue fits in. Old maps of downtown call out McMicken as the "Road to Hamilton," and McMicken branches off smoothly from Main Street. McMicken can be traced all the way to Howell Avenue near the old workhouse on old maps. Maybe it was obliterated by the canal, not to mention Central Parkway and I-75? In any case, the routes taken by St. Clair and Wayne must have crossed the Mill Creek somewhere in the vicinity of Knowlton's Corner.

 

    Interestingly, Spring Grove and Colerain used to cross each other very near the Mill Creek, and had separate bridges! Also, the ramp from north I-75 to I-74 incorporated an older underpass for Colerain Avenue under the CSX railroad. When driving that ramp, you can see stone abutments, which is unusual for an interstate.

The following excerpt from the 1869 Titus Atlas is pretty instructive, since it shows many more buildings, unlike the USGS topo which only showed civic buildings for the most part.  Land parcels with their owner's name is also included, so you'd probably be able to identify the source of some street names.  It also shows an earlier proposed location for the College Hill Railroad that was never implemented.  Note that it's over 9MB! 

 

http://homepage.mac.com/jjakucyk/northside1869.jpg

 

You can find more at the David Rumsey Map Collection

 

Also, even in 1912 McMicken basically petered out around Dixmyth and Blair Avenues.  Some earlier maps show it going a bit farther north, but never past Clifton Hills or Brashears Street.

there's some scattershot info here

http://www.northside.net/History.shtml

The book Scrabble referenced is by Dann Woellert who hosts Architreks tours in Northside from time to time. His family lived in the neighborhood & he is very knowledgeable on the area's history.

The Souvenir History of Cumminsville that 8th & State referenced should be available at the Ohio Bookstore & is Northside History 101. The picture of a tree lined Spring Grove Ave is worth the price.

:-)

There is a building at the north end of the vacant lot on the NE corner of Hamilton & Blue Rock (old lumber yard). I don't know if that had anything to do with the railroad or not.

And it was semi referenced, there was a train that went from Spring Grove up Crawford to points unknown.

The College Hill Railroad is actually pretty well documented.  It was a narrow gauge steam railroad that went from Spring Grove up Crawford then on its own private right-of-way to Llanfair Avenue in College Hill.  It followed Llanfair west to another private right-of-way and turned north to hook up with Simpson Avenue, ending at Compton Road where an old carbarn remains.  At the turn of the 20th century it was expanded and turned into an interurban.  New track was laid north on Hamilton Avenue from Llanfair all the way into Hamilton.  Connection with other interurbans and mergers brought it into the large Ohio Electric system, and eventually the Cincinnati & Lake Erie.  The old route of the steam railroad from Hamilton west on Llanfair to Simpson and Compton was relegated to a freight branch after conversion to electric operations.  Still, the line lasted until 1939, Cincinnati's longest-lived interurban. 

 

The CH&D station is long gone unfortunately, and the orange brick building at the end of Langland Avenue wasn't related to it, but it does show up in the old postcard image. 

 

So that's now an abandoned lumber yard and might become a microbrewery:

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2010/08/vacant-northside-lumber-yard-eyed-for.html

Wow..so Cincy has a Titus map/atlas too?  The Dayton one (also from 1869) was an invalubale source for me back when I was doing those neighborhood history threads. 

 

You can see how the CH&D stations changed location.  On map shows in west of Hamilton (Titus map) another shows it east.  But these maps are a great resource.  Im going to have to print out a copy and walk the neighborhood some more and see if anything survives from those maps (or how much does). 

 

I also see the Rumsey collection has some maps of the other Mill Creek Valley towns, including Camp Washington.  Fascinating.  Nowadays all this runs together, but one can see where the town or village cores where.

 

Im also a bit interested in those odd grid patterns in Cummingsville.  It looks like the plats didnt follow the rectangular coordiante system, which makes me wonder if the intial property surveys here were via metes and bounds?  I'd think since this was Symmes Purchase the land was surveyed using the rectangular system, but the plats seem to indicate more irregular and skewed initial surveys and property lines?

 

(BTW, good question on McMicken.  I've wondered about that streets odd angle, too).

 

 

Dunno if this explains the grid oddities

http://www.northside.net/PDF/knowltonsatthecorner.pdf

The author wrote an Ohio History textbook used in public schools.

^

Wow, yes it does!  What an in-depth history!  I sort of wish someone would do that kind of  stuff for Dayton neighborhoods.