I wonder if the population explosion of Toronto helped out Canada’s Wonderland’s attendance more than Detroit’s implosion hurt Cedar Point’s attendance. 

20 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I wonder if the population explosion of Toronto helped out Canada’s Wonderland’s attendance more than Detroit’s implosion hurt Cedar Point’s attendance. 

 

@BigDipper 80 How does this relate to Kings Island? ??‍♂️

7 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

@BigDipper 80 How does this relate to Kings Island? ??‍♂️

 

He's talking about the attendance stats in the article posted above.

 

And yes, take your whippersnapper to Kings Island.  Cedar Point you can do on your way to Church's Chicken up there.

39 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

He's talking about the attendance stats in the article posted above.

 

And yes, take your whippersnapper to Kings Island.  Cedar Point you can do on your way to Church's Chicken up there.

People need to learn to use quotes, so other will know what they are responding to or commenting on specifically.

 

Church's.....child please!  So an 11 Year old won't think KI is whack after going to CP?

I don't know what and 11 year old would think but KI has a great collection of coasters so they probably won't think it's "wack."  They'll probably think CP is better, though.

4 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

I don't know what and 11 year old would think but KI has a great collection of coasters so they probably won't think it's "wack."  They'll probably think CP is better, though.

@ColDayMan  That's a fair answer.  I appreciate the response.  

On 6/1/2019 at 1:59 PM, MyTwoSense said:

I haven't been to Kings Island in decades, but this Summer I want to take the little WhipperSnapper to some places outside of Metro Cleveland that I've visited when I was his age.  I mapping out some places to visit and not sure if I should take him to both Cedar Point and Kings Island.

 

Thoughts on Kings Island??

Definitely visit KI—they have a great collection of intermediate coasters for the transition to larger rides (The Bat, The Racer, Flight of Fear, Invertigo or Vortex, and Backlot Stunt Coaster(!)). Whereas Cedar Point is more crowded and expensive with barely any coasters under 100 feet. They do have 10 or 11 highly thrilling coasters (including 6 over 200ft!), but I KI has at least several options at each level. (Low level=Woodstock Express, Adventure Express, Flying Ace, Surf Dog; High level=Banshee, The Beast, Diamondback, future giga)

 

I’d go for both though!

Edited June 2, 20196 yr by Boxtruffles

2 minutes ago, Boxtruffles said:

Definitely visit KI—they have a great collection of intermediate coasters for the transition to larger rides (The Bat, The Racer, Flight of Fear, Invertigo or Vortex, and Backlot Stunt Coaster(!)). Whereas Cedar Point is more crowded and expensive with barely any coasters under 100 feet. They do have 10 or 11 highly thrilling coasters (including 6 over 200ft!), but I KI has at least several options at each level. (Low level=Woodstock Express, Adventure Express, Flying Ace, Surf Dog; High level=Banshee, The Beast, Diamondback, future giga)

 

I’d go for both though!

 

Thanks for the thorough post.  More informative than someone else (cough, c d m, cough)  LOL  ????  This gives me more to think about.  

Kings Island also has the free water park, if anyone in the party is into that sort of thing. 

The whipperSnapper, my God kids and boyfriend love water parks.  But we've already got two on the schedule, one in Long Island and one in Orlando.  They kids will visit the water park while I get my Star Wars fanboy joy!

I'll echo what others have said. CP clearly has the better selection of coasters (probably the best in the country). But KI also has a good selection of different coasters; nothing to sneeze at at all.  Plus KI has smaller crowds, which means you can more easily ride favorites more than once. IMO, the Beast is worth the trip alone. Nothing like that at CP.

17 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

The whipperSnapper, my God kids and boyfriend love water parks.  But we've already got two on the schedule, one in Long Island and one in Orlando.  They kids will visit the water park while I get my Star Wars fanboy joy!

 

Make your trip an extended weekend and visit the Cincinnati Zoo while you're down here. One of the best zoos in the world. 

Don't tell him that.  He'll be visiting some relatives there and may never leave.

On 6/1/2019 at 10:59 AM, MyTwoSense said:

I haven't been to Kings Island in decades, but this Summer I want to take the little WhipperSnapper to some places outside of Metro Cleveland that I've visited when I was his age.  I mapping out some places to visit and not sure if I should take him to both Cedar Point and Kings Island.

 

Thoughts on Kings Island??

 

Are you or your nephews fans of tennis, by chance? If so, you should come down to KI during the W&S Open. Do the tournament one day and KI the next. They're literally across 71 from each other, and they'd provide a nice contrast for you. Plus, I know your bougie self would enjoy the tennis tournament vibe...or at least the Veuve Clicquot tent! lol

Edited June 3, 20196 yr by edale

47 minutes ago, edale said:

 

Are you or your nephews fans of tennis, by chance? If so, you should come down to KI during the W&S Open. Do the tournament one day and KI the next. They're literally across 71 from each other, and they'd provide a nice contrast for you. Plus, I know your bougie self would enjoy the tennis tournament vibe...or at leave the Veuve Clicquot tent! lol

 

That's a good suggestion.  Plus, swing by the Loveland Castle! 

 

http://www.lovelandcastle.com/

 

 

 

 

On 6/3/2019 at 8:54 AM, Robuu said:

I'll echo what others have said. CP clearly has the better selection of coasters (probably the best in the country). But KI also has a good selection of different coasters; nothing to sneeze at at all.  Plus KI has smaller crowds, which means you can more easily ride favorites more than once. IMO, the Beast is worth the trip alone. Nothing like that at CP.

having grown up, and worked, at KI this whas the thing that always stood out to me when going to CP.  There was no gradual transition from small to large coaster.  It was basically kiddie coaster and then you were expected to just be OK with a 100+ foot drop.  KI def has a better stepping stone line up of coasters in that regard, while CP has the higher end of the coaster realm covered.  

 

I think adding the rumored giga coaster to KI will do wonders for their line up.  And I would say the same about CP either adding a true family coaster that has a moderate height requirement, or just changing some of their existing requirements (you can't tell me with a straight face that Iron Dragon or Mine Train need to have a 48" requirement when Millennium Force has the same).

Agreed on the CP family coaster thing.  They should've never removed Wildcat and/or Disaster Transport/Avalanche.

On 6/3/2019 at 2:12 PM, edale said:

 

Are you or your nephews fans of tennis, by chance? If so, you should come down to KI during the W&S Open. Do the tournament one day and KI the next. They're literally across 71 from each other, and they'd provide a nice contrast for you. Plus, I know your bougie self would enjoy the tennis tournament vibe...or at least the Veuve Clicquot tent! lol

 

Bougie?  Moi? I do love Tennis but this is all about the Whippersnapper.  I want to give him great experiences.  Prior to coming to me, he hasn't had the best life, so I want to make sure any and everything he does is special. 

 

 

On 6/3/2019 at 10:08 AM, DEPACincy said:

 

Make your trip an extended weekend and visit the Cincinnati Zoo while you're down here. One of the best zoos in the world. 

Thanks but I think the Cleveland Zoo is better.  Not to start a debate, just my opinion.

Well, we don't all have good tastes...

On 6/3/2019 at 10:41 AM, ColDayMan said:

Don't tell him that.  He'll be visiting some relatives there and may never leave.

 

More like MyTooLate.

2 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Well, we don't all have good tastes...

True, but I tolerate you anyway. 

 

Don't be so hard on yourself.  Being a self saboteur is so middle class.  Take comfort in knowing, that at certain times, you can be useful.  

 

 

@ColDayMan I have missed your snark and somewhat witty shade.

And I missed your sub-par shade as well, Pearl.

 

12 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

And I missed your sub-par shade as well, Pearl.

 

 

 

On 6/3/2019 at 8:54 AM, Robuu said:

I'll echo what others have said. CP clearly has the better selection of coasters (probably the best in the country). But KI also has a good selection of different coasters; nothing to sneeze at at all.  Plus KI has smaller crowds, which means you can more easily ride favorites more than once. IMO, the Beast is worth the trip alone. Nothing like that at CP.

 

Cedar Point is the Coaster capital of the world and that seems to be their focus.  KI may give him something to compare to Six Flags.

I've got several emails/messages from Kings Island indicating a big announcement is coming tomorrow, August 15.  I assume (hope!) it's for a giga coaster!

It is, I'm just waiting on the name...

Here is a fan prediction POV:

 

 

10 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

It is, I'm just waiting on the name...

 

Son of Mystic Timbers. 

Ugh.  They couldn't even make it taller than WindSeeker.

 

Millennium Forceless.

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

Ugh.  They couldn't even make it taller than WindSeeker.

 

Millennium Forceless.

 

It's the generic viagra we've all been waiting for. 

 

 

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

Ugh.  They couldn't even make it taller than WindSeeker.

 

Millennium Forceless.

 

Paint it green and name it O'rion. 

https://www.visitkingsisland.com/explore/orion

 

It may be short, but it looks to pack a punch.

 

Orion, Diamondback, Banshee, Beast, Mystic Timbers, and Flight of Fear  make for one heckuva collection of coasters. 

38 minutes ago, OldBearcat said:

Orion, Diamondback, Banshee, Beast, Mystic Timbers, and Flight of Fear  make for one heckuva collection of coasters

 

Consistently solid collection, but nothing earth-shattering like Cedar Point has.

This is t parks first giga coaster and some of you are acting like they added another Adventure Express.  Jesus some people just live to be miserable. 

1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

This is t parks first giga coaster and some of you are acting like they added another Adventure Express.  Jesus some people just live to be miserable. 

 

That's not true, another Adventure Express (with working theming) would be exciting. ?

Only the 7th giga coaster in the world. Get more excited, people! ?

 

Also, there is no way they're going to outdue their flagship Cedar Point park just a few hours north of here. You guys are craaaazy if you think they're ever going to make Kings Island bigger and better than Cedar Point.

26 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

That's not true, another Adventure Express (with working theming) would be exciting. ?

I love Adventure Express.  The line is always short and the nostalgia is always high.  

24 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I love Adventure Express.  The line is always short and the nostalgia is always high.  

 

I love it too. The real theme isn't "adventure," it's "skirting copyright laws."

My only disappointment with Orion is the length. Fury 325 is 1300’ longer and we have so much space to work with back there. Thanks Trump steel tariffs...

Edited August 16, 20195 yr by ucgrady

44 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

I love it too. The real theme isn't "adventure," it's "skirting copyright laws."

 

Good.  That means the next constellation-inspired coaster could be CANCER.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

Also, there is no way they're going to outdue their flagship Cedar Point park just a few hours north of here. You guys are craaaazy if you think they're ever going to make Kings Island bigger and better than Cedar Point.

 

Which is why I don't care for Cedar Fair.  They neuter Kings Island and killed Geauga Lake.

 

They are truly a...

 

2 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

Only the 7th giga coaster in the world. Get more excited, people! ?

 

Also, there is no way they're going to outdue their flagship Cedar Point park just a few hours north of here. You guys are craaaazy if you think they're ever going to make Kings Island bigger and better than Cedar Point.

 

 

Cedar point has a wonderful collection of roller coasters that is true, but I’ve noticed that so many people have fed themselves the false idea that overall Cedar Point is some kind of “big brother” to Kings Island and it’s just NOT true. Attendance is THE key metric and as seen on this Cleveland.com article the parks are about even. Then I thought to myself well maybe cedar is bigger literally but it’s not they are both listed at 364 Acres. 

Cedar Point was never the "big brother" of Kings Island.  They've been flagship parks (until Cedar Fair's purchase) for decades.  Not necessarily competitors but certainly their own lanes, respectively.  Kings Island was always about innovation (first suspended, first stand-up, first LIM, first 6-looper, blah blah) while Cedar Point chased records (tallest, fastest **insert coaster type here**).  And yes, both have generally the same attendance numbers (both beaten by Canada's Wonderland).

 

Cedar Fair buying Kings Island AND Geauga Lake was the worst day in Ohio amusement park history.

Cedar Point and Kings Island are also both seasonal parks. Those numbers are impressive considering most of the ones above it (on that chart) are not seasonal parks and operate year-round, including Cedar Fair's own Knott's Berry Farm in LA. I think that's their highest attendance number park in the chain, but they don't invest nearly as much in it as Cedar Point or Kings Island. 

 

They want Cedar Point to be destination park, and it is. There's really no other "typical" amusement park like it, being on a lake peninsula and such. Kings Island also pulls from Lexington, Louisville, and Indianapolis as well as Columbus (who as the option of Cedar Point for a day trip) and southern Ohio, so they have slightly different markets.

 

Cedar Fair also seems to *love* Carowinds. They're investing HIGHLY in that park, and I think they see it as having great potential, especially since it's basically the only park in the quickly-growing Charlotte metro area and anywhere else south of DC and north of Florida. That park is gonna be something else in the near future. They've already made it 10x what it was before. they purchased it. I'm super interested to see where it goes.

 

Edit: I also think they want Canada's Wonderland to be in their A-tier as well. And I suspect the same for California's Great America but that one has some more interesting hurdles which is probably why they haven't dived in as much or as quickly as Carowinds.

Edited August 19, 20195 yr by Zyrokai

The one thing that Kings Island has over Cedar Point from an investment standpoint is that Cedar Point is about all it can be. They can put a new ride in but it involves taking a ride out. They are landlocked on every side.

 

Kings Island on the other hand still has over a 1000 acres that are pretty much undeveloped at their disposal. It makes it easy and cheap for expansion purposes.

Cedar Point has a ton of room left to expand. It's like saying Manhattan is out of room - you just have to get more creative with your use of space. I made a quick map of all the land CP could build on without having to remove a single ride, but might include some consolidation of employee and maintenance facilities or a new parking structure:

 

\

 

And Cedar Point is far from the densest amusement park. Only two rides "overlap" with each other - Rougarou and Iron Dragon. Look at this park in Indiana:

 

 

Or this one in Sweden:

 

... where there's a will, there's a way. I'm not worried about Cedar Point "running out of room". At all.

 

And Kings Island actually only owns about 700 acres total, of which 364 are already developed. A big chunk of it was sold off to the Lindners on the west side of I-71 to build the tennis center. KI originally didn't buy 1000+ acres to make it all a theme park. They wanted to compete with Disney World and be a full "resort", with multiple hotels and golf courses to keep people on-property for multiple days. And KI's current layout makes it inconvenient to access a lot of the land that it hasn't developed, since it's either behind Bat and Banshee and effectively walled off by those two coasters, save for a long walk, or out by Beast, which KI will probably never develop to keep that ride hidden.

 

Does a higher density like like that increase the profitability of a park much like good urban density increases the earnings potential of the businesses located within?

29 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Does a higher density like like that increase the profitability of a park much like good urban density increases the earnings potential of the businesses located within?

Don't think it works completely like that as you reach capacity quicker in a smaller confined space.