They just used a lack of space to come up with the innovative erector set concept for The Steel Curtain at Kennywood:

 

Kennywood is loaded with roller coasters that make use of the site's hills.  The Jack Rabbit, The Racer, and the Steel Phantom each dive into ravines.  King's Island's most famous and unique ride, The Beast, takes advantage of the park's hills and thick forest...but that's the only one. 

 

I don't get why they can't build a roller coaster that dives down into the Little Miami's valley or even crosses the river.  The bulk of the park sits 150 feet above the river, so a 300-foot lift hill + 150 foot drop = 450 feet.  King's Island could shatter the world record but instead we get the generic Orion, which comes tantalizingly close to the cliff but keeps it safe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

King's Island's most famous and unique ride, The Beast, takes advantage of the park's hills and thick forest...but that's the only one.

 

I was just at KI yesterday, and The Beast is absolutely one of the best coasters in the world for the reasons stated above.  There will never be a roller coaster like it in existence.  While I appreciate Cedar Fair building coasters at all after buying KI, they've all been milquetoast 'safe' choices.  They wouldn't dare build a ride better than the premier ones in Cedar Point.

There is the Little Miami Scenic River Buffer they have to deal with. 

 

In respect to the Cedar Fair investment  and improvements at KI....what of the millions of dollars did Paramount sink into the Park that still bear fruit?  

2 minutes ago, OldBearcat said:

In respect to the Cedar Fair investment  and improvements at KI....what of the millions of dollars did Paramount sink into the Park that still bear fruit?

 

Cedar Fair definitely changed the trajectory of the park, and I appreciate that.  It was not in a good place late in the Paramount years.

Edited August 19, 20195 yr by 10albersa

13 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

Cedar Fair also seems to *love* Carowinds. They're investing HIGHLY in that park, and I think they see it as having great potential, especially since it's basically the only park in the quickly-growing Charlotte metro area and anywhere else south of DC and north of Florida. That park is gonna be something else in the near future. They've already made it 10x what it was before. they purchased it. I'm super interested to see where it goes.

 

 

Well there is also the Cedar Fair-owned Kings Dominion. Six Flags Over Georgia and Busch Gardens are also south of DC and north of Florida. 

Yeah I'm not sure why some are down on Cedar Fair for buying Kings Island.  Cedar Fair has built Diamondback, Banshee, Mystic Timbers and now Orion in 14 years of owning the park.  You could argue those are 4 of the top 5 rides in the park.  They also added and knocked down Firehawk.  

 

During Paramounts 14 years of ownership they did nothing the first 7 years then added the Action Zone where Drop Zone and Face off are.  They also added Son of Beast which was great for a while but then obviously had tons of issues.  After that it was just Tomb Raider and Italian Job before they sold. 

 

So I'd say Cedar Fair has at worst been equal if not better then Paramount. 

My only complaint about Cedar Fair's ownership is that they aren't big on theming like Paramount and Taft were. Dressing up the rides makes them just a little bit more special. But Cedar Fair has never been done themed attractions well (Disaster Transport was aptly named), and KI is vastly cleaner and better-operated than when Paramount owned the park. Plus, Cedar Fair is better about not adding low-capacity rides like Invertigo or Italian Job at a park as busy as KI.

30 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

KI is vastly cleaner and better-operated than when Paramount owned the park

This is a major point for me. The PKI of my youth smelled like hot blacktop and vomit. Cedar Fair has replaced much of the blacktop with pavers, which don't get as hot or smell like tar, and they keep it much cleaner. There are also many signs between the wet and dry parks reminding guests that shirts are required; in the PKI days shirtless guests were very common. 

4 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

 There are also many signs between the wet and dry parks reminding guests that shirts are required; in the PKI days shirtless guests were very common. 

 

Half of the dudes in the park didn't have shirts on in the 80s and 90s.  It was just way more common for people to go on errands without a shirt then also.  Watch old Reds games - 1 in 5 guys in the place aren't wearing a shirt.  

3 hours ago, OldBearcat said:

There is the Little Miami Scenic River Buffer they have to deal with. 

 

 

Nothing like a legal challenge for a bunch of free publicity.  If they get to build it, they win.  If they back off, they win.  

 

Unfortunately a subdivision is going in directly across the river.  Otherwise, they could have a ski resort-type gondola take people across to a ride or rides.  

 

 

 

22 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Well there is also the Cedar Fair-owned Kings Dominion. Six Flags Over Georgia and Busch Gardens are also south of DC and north of Florida. 

 

Yeah, I realized this after I posted it. I thought I edited it to include Six Flags and Busch Gardens, but I must have forgotten to hit save, haha.

 

Anyway,  each of those parks average about 300 miles away. Carowinds still has a healthy market all to itself mostly.

The wifey and I were there on Saturday. This was actually the first time I'd ever been there. It was nice... but there there sure were a lot of very large people and kids there and I was surprised at how much lack of diversity there was in the customers as well as the visible staff. 

 

 

^KI tends to serve as an “absentee babysitter” for Mason parents since the season passes are relatively cheap. 

With Viacom and CBS merging, the dream of the 90's is back! Maybe it could become PKI again!

Maybe they can have MTV's The Grind every day.

14 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Maybe they can have MTV's The Grind every day.

 

You could cross the Little Miami on that gondola I described to a 24/7/365 Grind. 

 

I actually went to The Grind.  It was on the Waterworks patio.  It was pretty lame. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, musky said:

 but there there sure were a lot of very large people

 

 

Around 1992 I was in line for The Racer, and a family reunion (airbrushed shirts!) pulled into the station all singing "Whoomp There It Is".  They took up the whole train, with more family members on the opposite train.  The Racer's footings and superstructure were never more stressed than on that particular run. 

 

 

On 8/16/2019 at 4:48 PM, ColDayMan said:

Cedar Point was never the "big brother" of Kings Island.  They've been flagship parks (until Cedar Fair's purchase) for decades.  Not necessarily competitors but certainly their own lanes, respectively.  Kings Island was always about innovation (first suspended, first stand-up, first LIM, first 6-looper, blah blah) while Cedar Point chased records (tallest, fastest **insert coaster type here**).  And yes, both have generally the same attendance numbers (both beaten by Canada's Wonderland).

 

Cedar Fair buying Kings Island AND Geauga Lake was the worst day in Ohio amusement park history.

I would argue that Kings Island is still a flagship park, but their focuses are different. Cedar Point is very much a destination for vacations and travelers in addition to a season pass base. Kings Island is primarily a season pass base. And while it does have some drawing power, the overwhelming majority of its guests are regional passholders who Cedar Fair hopes visit often (and then spends money when they do visit).

As for innovation, you could make the same argument for Six Flags, but it's important to note that these chains didn't just do that to be the first or best—Paramount often took a risk on "new" rides because it was cheaper. I.E. Premier was very anxious to get their LIM coasters into market. Paramount Parks was a way to do that. Same story for HUSS, Vekoma, etc. The downside was these rides didn't always work out operationally. 
 

23 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

My only complaint about Cedar Fair's ownership is that they aren't big on theming like Paramount and Taft were. Dressing up the rides makes them just a little bit more special. But Cedar Fair has never been done themed attractions well (Disaster Transport was aptly named), and KI is vastly cleaner and better-operated than when Paramount owned the park. Plus, Cedar Fair is better about not adding low-capacity rides like Invertigo or Italian Job at a park as busy as KI.

The key with Cedar Fair's additions to Kings Island (Diamondback 2009, Banshee 2014, Mystic Timbers 2017, Orion 2020) is that they're adding rides that have high capacity/quick lines and are reliable. They want the experience to be good. No more waiting 2 hours for Tomb Raider when it is working, 4 hours when it's having fits. It's a smart move.
 

On 8/19/2019 at 10:45 AM, Cincy513 said:

Yeah I'm not sure why some are down on Cedar Fair for buying Kings Island.  Cedar Fair has built Diamondback, Banshee, Mystic Timbers and now Orion in 14 years of owning the park.  You could argue those are 4 of the top 5 rides in the park.  They also added and knocked down Firehawk.  

 

During Paramounts 14 years of ownership they did nothing the first 7 years then added the Action Zone where Drop Zone and Face off are.  They also added Son of Beast which was great for a while but then obviously had tons of issues.  After that it was just Tomb Raider and Italian Job before they sold. 

 

So I'd say Cedar Fair has at worst been equal if not better then Paramount. 

To be fair to Paramount, there were several other additions in there too over the years. Delirium, multiple kids area revamps that won (and continue to win) industry awards, shows, experiences. The quality just wasn't consistent depending on what conglomerate oversaw Paramount Parks. Under PP, the chain was smaller and KI truly the top property so it got massive investment every single season. 

Paramount also failed to realize just how good Canada's Wonderland can be (and to an extent, Great America). Cedar Fair seems to be taking full advantage of those parks now. Carwoinds is also seeing major focus due to the projected growth of Charlotte. This was traditionally a park viewed as "yeah, it's there" by Paramount. 

 

On 8/18/2019 at 10:14 PM, BigDipper 80 said:

They wanted to compete with Disney World and be a full "resort", with multiple hotels and golf courses to keep people on-property for multiple days. And KI's current layout makes it inconvenient to access a lot of the land that it hasn't developed, since it's either behind Bat and Banshee and effectively walled off by those two coasters, save for a long walk, or out by Beast, which KI will probably never develop to keep that ride hidden.

Every regional/seasonal park that was upgraded or built ground up in the 70s wanted to be a Disney-style full experience resort. I don't think KI so much wanted to compete with Disney (Disney as a corp even consulted in KI's construction), rather, they wanted to offer that experience closer to home in an era where traveling wasn't as economical and the massive parks weren't as huge a draw. Eventually, almost all of the regional/season parks figured out that the "resort" doesn't work long term when you A) Don't have iconic properties to draw on financially and from a marketing standpoint and B) Can't truly offer a year-round experience. 

2 hours ago, musky said:

The wifey and I were there on Saturday. This was actually the first time I'd ever been there. It was nice... but there there sure were a lot of very large people and kids there and I was surprised at how much lack of diversity there was in the customers as well as the visible staff. 

 

 

 

Remember what we said about the markets Kings Island pulls from? ?.........Lexington, Louisville, Indy, Cincy........not exactly the most diverse cities in the country : p

 

I think Cedar Point's staff is also a "destination staff" just like its visitors, so they're coming from all over the world rather than just .......northern Kentucky and southern Ohio, haha.

53 minutes ago, Zyrokai said:

 

not exactly the most diverse cities in the country 

 

Would it feel more cosmo with some French-speaking Africans scamming American tourists in broken English at the bottom of that Eiffel Tower?  

Kings Island's Vortex roller coaster is closing after 33 seasons

Jennifer Edwards Baker, Fox 19 Published 5:56 a.m. ET Sept. 27, 2019 | Updated 8:02 a.m. ET Sept. 27, 2019

 

DEERFIELD TWP. - It opened in 1987 as the tallest, full-circuit roller coaster with the highest drop in the world and the first roller coaster in the world with six inversions, but in the coming weeks Kings Island’s Vortex steel roller coaster will be closing for good.

While most coasters of this type typically last 25 to 30 years, Vortex is currently in its 33rd season and the amusement park said it "simply reached the end of its service life."

 

MORE

This makes me very sad, and in general I feel like our society is too quick to demolish structures (whether buildings or roller coasters) instead of trying to upkeep them. It's a large scale symptom of a throw-away society. Soon there will be almost no large Arrow loopers left because no one is willing to spend the money to rehab and replace the trains. I understand that spending a few million on Vortex wouldn't generate a big push for ticketholders, but destroying the past and reducing the nostalgia has a negative impact on the core season ticket buyers as well, especially those that remember this ride fondly because they were kids when it was built. That same age range is the one that has young kids now and would be buying season tickets, season long food plans, drink refill program and buying merchandise. Kings Island can spend their money to chase the next big thing (like the new world's shortest giga coaster) and try to attract new people, but they need to keep the locals happy too. Especially since Kings Island is much more reliant on season pass holders than destination type parks like Cedar Point.

 

Sorry to rant, but this one hurts a lot more than Firehawk did...

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

This makes me very sad, and in general I feel like our society is too quick to demolish structures (whether buildings or roller coasters) instead of trying to upkeep them. It's a large scale symptom of a throw-away society. Soon there will be almost no large Arrow loopers left because no one is willing to spend the money to rehab and replace the trains. I understand that spending a few million on Vortex wouldn't generate a big push for ticketholders, but destroying the past and reducing the nostalgia has a negative impact on the core season ticket buyers as well, especially those that remember this ride fondly because they were kids when it was built. That same age range is the one that has young kids now and would be buying season tickets, season long food plans, drink refill program and buying merchandise. Kings Island can spend their money to chase the next big thing (like the new world's shortest giga coaster) and try to attract new people, but they need to keep the locals happy too. Especially since Kings Island is much more reliant on season pass holders than destination type parks like Cedar Point.

 

Sorry to rant, but this one hurts a lot more than Firehawk did...

 

I agree.  So much of a theme park is about the nostalgia people had for the place when they were young.  People want to go back and they want it to be the same.  They want their own kids to have the same experience they did.  

 

Few rides remain at King's Island that were there when I wad a kid:

 

-The Smurf Ride

-Flying Eagles

-Zodiac

-Antique Cars

-Log Flume

-Screamin' Demon

-King Cobra

-whatever the cable cars were over Coney Mall

-Monorail through the zoo 

 

They put up a lot of stupid rides over the years like Flight Commander that nobody misses.  But the simpler stuff like The Viking Ship needs to stay.  The stuff from the 70s and 80s that they got rid of like The Monorail would be retro-cool now in the way that they don't take out the original rides from Disneyland.  

 

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

-The Smurf Ride

-Flying Eagles

-Zodiac

-Antique Cars

-Log Flume

-Screamin' Demon

-King Cobra

-whatever the cable cars were over Coney Mall

-Monorail through the zoo 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Antique cars are back and the log flume is still there. 

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

This makes me very sad, and in general I feel like our society is too quick to demolish structures (whether buildings or roller coasters) instead of trying to upkeep them. It's a large scale symptom of a throw-away society. Soon there will be almost no large Arrow loopers left because no one is willing to spend the money to rehab and replace the trains. I understand that spending a few million on Vortex wouldn't generate a big push for ticketholders, but destroying the past and reducing the nostalgia has a negative impact on the core season ticket buyers as well, especially those that remember this ride fondly because they were kids when it was built. That same age range is the one that has young kids now and would be buying season tickets, season long food plans, drink refill program and buying merchandise. Kings Island can spend their money to chase the next big thing (like the new world's shortest giga coaster) and try to attract new people, but they need to keep the locals happy too. Especially since Kings Island is much more reliant on season pass holders than destination type parks like Cedar Point.

 

Sorry to rant, but this one hurts a lot more than Firehawk did...

 

I would feel this way if they tore down the Beast obviously or the Racers. But I'm not really that sad about this. Vortex beat you up pretty good even back in the 90s. And being pretty tall, I don't really fit in the seats at all. My knees are pinned against the seat in front of me (unless I sit in the front). It's prime real estate within the park and I'm actually pretty excited to see what they end up doing with it. 

The company that made Vortex, Arrow Dynamics, went out of business quite a while ago and more parks are tearing down their old Arrow loopers with only a few being refurbished. KI had a tendency to run Vortex at max capacity with three trains instead of two. This meant that if trains got stacked at the station, they'd have to really slam the breaks in order to stop trains. 

 

As sad as I am to see Vortex go (it was my favorite Arrow looper) its time was coming. Now they can put another coaster in that spot in a few years. Maybe a T-Rex or an infinity coaster.

I definitely am in the "We need our own version of The Smiler" camp. I have not been to KI since Halloween 2004 (my last day employed by PKI), an Infinity Coaster would definitely be the carrot to get me back for sure.

 

Also, bring back KCKC.

 

Lastly, I question the part line about service life. If this were truly the case, we would be saying good bye to Dragon Fire (1981), Carolina Cyclone (1980), and Demon (1976). Did I intentionally list older Kings Entertainment Arrows? Sure did. I feel there are plans afoot for the future.

The Vortex was the park's premier attraction from the time it was built until Son of Beast, a span of about 15 years.  It usurped the King Cobra, which was a really big deal when it in, and the 1-2 combo of new metal coasters was pretty...metal.  Of the two I recall The King cobra being the better pound-for-pound ride.  Its helix was much more dramatic than the Vortex's.  It made way more noise, in addition to being faster.  It also had those bunny hills and the weird sideways tilt thing along the back side, which were the sort of small-ball stuff missing from The Vortex.  

 

I can't exaggerate what is was like when these rides went in.  People watched them over and over again, entranced, but never riding.  We had never seen anything like them.  

 

The only non-roller coaster ride that I recall generating big-time excitement was Whitewater Canyon.  I remember not being able to ride the thing for years because the lines were so long.  I didn't get to ride it until year 3 or 4, by which ever single pole in the cue was covered in chewing gum.  

Quote

-The Smurf Ride

-Flying Eagles

-Zodiac

-Antique Cars

-Log Flume

-Screamin' Demon

-King Cobra

-whatever the cable cars were over Coney Mall

-Monorail through the zoo 

 

 

 

Before it was "The Smurf Ride", it was Enchanted Voyage, and way better than the Smurfs!

I miss the Flying Eagles the most.

As the Log Flume is still there, I think you are remembering Kenton's Cove Keelboat Canal

3 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

As sad as I am to see Vortex go (it was my favorite Arrow looper) its time was coming. Now they can put another coaster in that spot in a few years. Maybe a T-Rex or an infinity coaster.

 

You know it's going to be a Walmart version of Yukon Striker.  Alberta Clipper or something.

2 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Before it was "The Smurf Ride", it was Enchanted Voyage, and way better than the Smurfs!

I miss the Flying Eagles the most.

As the Log Flume is still there, I think you are remembering Kenton's Cove Keelboat Canal

 

I remember almost getting kicked out of the park when I was 12 or 13 when my friend and I tried to spit on every smurf we floated past.  They took us aside when we got off the ride and insisted that we have you on video.  I was so wound up by the dramatic(?) tongue splashdown that I had already forgotten the spitting and made a convincing case that it must have been those other guys in the next boat.  

15 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

 

You know it's going to be a Walmart version of Yukon Striker.  Alberta Clipper or something.

 

Banshee and Mystic Timbers have been pretty highly regarded and Banshee was a record-breaker. They might go with something big. My money is on the first real T-Rex coaster in 2022

Honestly surprised that KI got their long rumored giga this year .... supposedly both Mystic Timbers and Banshee did not do much to increase attendance or more importantly for KI season pass sales.  If Orion doesn't move people through the gates then I think it could be a good while before another major roller coaster is installed.

 

Among the other Cedar Fair parks Worlds of Fun, Dorney, and Valleyfair are all due to get something of a significant upgrade soon.  And I would not be surprised if Cedar Point gets something significant for 2021, the year after they celebrate their historical 150th season.

23 minutes ago, tedders55 said:

If Orion doesn't move people through the gates then I think it could be a good while before another major roller coaster is installed.

 

Which is fine now that they are getting a Giga.  I see KI as a pretty complete park coaster-wise, nothing wows you, but it has something for everybody.  It could use some theme/scenery upgrades more than coaster upgrades at this point.

1 hour ago, tedders55 said:

Honestly surprised that KI got their long rumored giga this year .... supposedly both Mystic Timbers and Banshee did not do much to increase attendance or more importantly for KI season pass sales.  If Orion doesn't move people through the gates then I think it could be a good while before another major roller coaster is installed.

 

Among the other Cedar Fair parks Worlds of Fun, Dorney, and Valleyfair are all due to get something of a significant upgrade soon.  And I would not be surprised if Cedar Point gets something significant for 2021, the year after they celebrate their historical 150th season.

ValleyFair is a small park. I don't think it gets the same level of investment of a park like Cedar Point, KI, Carrowinds, and Canada Wonderland.

^ No I agree that none of their "other" parks outside of those you mentioned and Knotts get much.  But every once in a while they do need some kind of investment, and Worlds of Fun and Dorney have not had anything go into their parks in quite a while.

Screw those parks, how about Michigan's Adventure?  They got goats one year.  Goats.

Been about 25 yrs since I've been to KI.. w the addition of Orion, I think it's about time to take a trip back down to SW ohio

 

I have avoided public as much as possible since Mid-March but I'm planning on making an exception two weeks from now. Official POV:

 

 

Meh, I'll wait until next year (or when pandemic is over).

That first hill seems smaller than I expected, but the ride itself is longer than I figured it would be (given the average speed of this thing)

Well, it's only 57 feet taller than Diamondback so it shouldn't be that much of a spike in "look."

Looking up at it no, but the drop goes into a natural ravine so a 215' drop on Diamondback vs a 300' drop on Orion should be VERY noticeable when you are cresting that hill. 

They may as well add a goat farm like Michigan's Adventure...

Kings Island to debut massive $27M attraction in 2021

 

Cincinnati amusement park Kings Island will debut a massive new outdoor attraction in time for the 2021 season.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/12/08/kings-island-27m-attraction.html

 

What's the point of this if you can't even walk to Kings Island? 

 

You could camp at any number of campsites (in nature!) in the Cincinnati area and drive to Kings Island and get the same experience.

I would hope that there is some sort of free shuttle so you wouldn't have to deal with parking, but yeah it's camping between an interstate and an office building. Something like this would make more sense on the old campground site near the new employee housing or the old safari land, then the camp guests could enter the 'back' of the park and it would feel more unique and like you were really gaining something vs a local campground or hotel. 

Where exactly is this going? I don't see it mentioned in the article

On the vacant parcel (s) north of SR 741 at Columbia Road 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/wz6HYv8wmVBwAkPs5

I can't tell, but is the conference center across from Great Wold Lodge there?  Streetview 2017 says no, aerial imagery says yes. 

 

If it isn't there, it would have made much more sense if they could have bought out the Rivers Crossing church and then used the land from that plot and the conference center for the same thing and have it be walking distance to the park.

 

With this set up, they're targeting the RV crowd and saying they need to drive into the park.  Either RVers are towing a personal vehicle behind them that they can use to get there, or they're driving the big rig into the KI parking lot for the day.