Not sure if you're co-worker gets around Cleveland much. But to each their own.

I can't speak for Akronites, but I don't think that Clevelanders (in general) hate or despise any of our fellow NEO cities. Well.... maybe there is a little hate for Y-town only because of the divide caused by the Steelers-Browns rivalry. I think Akron's (or any other NEO city's) achievements and successes are celebrated in Cleveland. Generally speaking, I would like to think that we view NEO as one unified region. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

The hatred (competition or rivalry) usually comes from the smaller city. They are the ones who are jealous and want to prove they are equal to the big kids. This is the reason for Lebrons comments. Akron isn't even on the radar for someone from Cleveland, its just a local small town.

 

I've experienced this living in Cincinnati for 40 years. They so want to be Cleveland!

 

I disagree. You can't judge a whole city on the voice of one man. I have spent about equal time out of my life in both cities. Akron has been pushing for Regionalism in NE. Ohio for many years and it has been Cleveland who has been resisting this effort. I rarely here Akronites say anything bad about Cleveland. They route for Cleveland Sports Teams, attend their events and enjoy the proximity to Cleveland.

 

On the other hand, I continually hear comments like yours from Clevelanders. They are always calling Akron small and insulting them. Akron is big little city, mostly because it is a part of a rather large Metropolitan Area. Last I heard; Akron-Canton Area had 1.6 million people. It is no Cleveland and they have no desire to be. But I grow weary of Clevelanders putting Akron down as some small hick town, when it is not.

 

They have plenty to offer: The Akron Art Museum is recognized around the world. It has transformed from The Rubber Capital to The Polymer Capital and their three major hospitals are recognized around the world for their Research and Development. Akron Children's has the number one Burn Unit in the world and was the first to grow Human Skin. They have EJ Thomas Hall, The National Inventors Hall of Fame, Cuyahoga Valley National Recreation Area, Firestone Country Club, The Portage Lakes, The Ohio Canal, Montrose, Chapel Hill and Downtown Akron has become a growing Entertainment District. They have concerts Downtown every weekend and live Jazz many days at lunch. It is generally 100 times cleaner and nicer than Cleveland, has a lower crime rate and better schools. There are many people who come from around the world to participate in the AAA Convention, The Soap Box Derby, The Firestone Invitational, The Lebron Bikeathon and Marathon and The Lebron James Basketball Tournament. Akron U and Kent State are both respected colleges and are both growing at a rapid rate. One of Akron's Promotional Videos:

 

Again, I love Cleveland and Akron both, but statements like you just made is an indication of where the animosity, if any, is coming from. How about not putting Akron down and showing them some of the love they show Cleveland? 

 

Last I heard; Akron-Canton Area had 1.6 million people.

 

 

Actually, I believe Greater Akron has about 700,000 and the Canton-Massillon MSA has about 400,000. So 1.1 million is still pretty respectable.

 

Last I heard; Akron-Canton Area had 1.6 million people.

 

 

Yeah, my data was old. The Akron Area, alone, use to have 993,000 people. But that was when they included Portage County, which they don't appear to be including, anymore. I don't know why, though; Kent and Ravenna are definitely Akron Suburbs. So that's 300,000 people that aren't included in the current estimates. Probably more, by now.

 

When you include Portage County, the way they use to, that puts the Akron Area at or above 1,000,000 people. That's no Chicago or Houston, but it's not the hick town some Clevelanders like to make it out to be.

 

Akron Metropolitan Area:

 

1960: 993,000 (Summit, Portage and Medina Counties)

2000: 699,935 (Summit and Medina counties)

2000: Cleveland-Akron-Elyria Metropolitan Area: 2,945,831 (14th Largest)

 

 

 

Actually, I believe Greater Akron has about 700,000 and the Canton-Massillon MSA has about 400,000. So 1.1 million is still pretty respectable.

I thought the official Census Defined Akron MSA was only Summit and Portage Counties. Medina County is in the Cleveland MSA.

I thnk most Clevelanders have a quiet admiration for Arkon-the little city than can and does!

I think Clevelanders take their city for granted and are some of the biggest offenders of the "grass is greener" mentality.

 

When do many Clevelanders learn to appreciate Cleveland? When they leave it.

I think Clevelanders take their city for granted and are some of the biggest offenders of the "grass is greener" mentality.

 

When do many Clevelanders learn to appreciate Cleveland? When they leave it.

 

Can you name an Ohio city which is not like this?

I thought the official Census Defined Akron MSA was only Summit and Portage Counties. Medina County is in the Cleveland MSA.

 

You are right. My mistake. It use to be Summit, Portage and Medina Counties. But now it's Summit and Portage. Also, Portage County is a lot smaller that I thought it was. In 2000, it was listed at 152,061 people.

 

I think that it is actually ridiculous to remove Medina as part of Akron and make it part of Cleveland, because when it was included with Akron, Montrose, Bath and Copley consisted of a big Horse Farm and Montrose Theater, where my Mother would set up on Sundays. They had a Flea Market. There was nothing else out there. Now, Akron stretches West in a major way, through Fairlawn, Copley, Bath and Montrose, which is, arguably, the busiest Business District in NE Ohio. Metropolitan Akron's West Side actually connects with Medina City Limits. Cleveland and Medina City Limits are separated by large sections of nothingness and a few rural Housing Subdivisions and very small Business Districts, not to mention a very large distance.

 

For one reason or another; I suspect Politics, Cleveland has managed to get credit for Akron's Suburbs.

 

Cleveland Residents have always taken credit for Akron's Suburbs. Richfield, for example, is clearly an Akron Suburb, just outside of Fairlawn, Bath, Copley and Montrose, inside Summit County. However, because the Cavs played there, it has always been associated with Cleveland, although it's nowhere near Cleveland. Twinsburg and Macedonia are also just outside of Stow, Hudson and Kent, inside of Summit County, yet, are associated with Cleveland; by Clevelanders. Of-course, statistically, they are part of Akron, but when you talk to Clevelanders, they consider these areas part of Cleveland.

 

It is correct; Akron gets very little credit and respect from Cleveland. Just listen to tedolph as he finds a way to belittle Akron, as he tries to make it sound like a compliment. Imagine your a small Running Back on a Football Team. You hold your own, but everybody keeps calling you that little guy. Akron has no desire to be huge, but doesn't like being referred to as that little insignificant town, either. How about just calling Akron by it's name tedolph and not adding adjectives that diminishes it's value and importance? That's what upsets me and many people who have experienced life in Akron, which has it's perks.

 

As far as how little Akron is..... it seems to be catching up with Cleveland mighty quick; as Cleveland continues to bleed people, at an alarming pace. From 900,000 people, down to 400,000. At the current rate of bloodshed, it will be the size of Akron before too long, so I recommend remaining humble. Akrons' Population will grow before Clevelands' does, because Akron is doing better Economically. I suspect it is growing now, but the growth hasn't hit the record books, yet. Cleveland needs to embrace Akron, the way Akron has always embraced Cleveland.

 

Here is a link that offers many of the attractions in Akron, that Clevelanders are unaware of: http://www.ci.akron.oh.us/attract.html

Yikes, looks like maybe LeBron was right after all!  :-o

 

Three times as many people from Medina Co. work in Cuyahoga Co. than work in Summit Co.  That's how the Census Bureau puts together metropolitan areas.  Sorry you disagree, but unless there are a bunch of Clevelanders running the CB, maybe you should redirect your rage.

 

http://www.development.ohio.gov/research/files/P0005.htm

 

Actually, your rant really underscores the point of this thread.  Cleveland and Akron are so intertwined now, it's hard to separate one from the other.  Of course there are clear suburbs of both- Barberton is an Akron suburb and Euclid is a Cleveland suburb, but Twinsburg and Macedonia?  They're suburbs of BOTH cities.

 

And that link you posted?  If you actually look at it, I think you'll find that many of the "attractions in Akron, that Clevelanders are unaware of," are actually familiar to Clevelanders- like the Cleveland Museum of Art, Rock Hall, Cuyahoga Valley National Park, Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Indians...

 

Do you know why that list of "Akron" attractions has so many in Cleveland (and Canton?)  Because IT'S ONE AREA.  Get the chip off your shoulder and realize that we are stronger as one, and need to act like it.

I live in Akron so I thought I would chime in.  I like Cleveland and have no animosity or sense of rivalry towards it, but I really don't consider Akron to be Cleveland.  I appreciate all Cleveland has to offer and I go to Cleveland a couple times a year for Indians games or for a change of scenery, but on a day to day basis, other than sports, Cleveland really doesn't register.  I view Cleveland more as a neighbor, much like Pittsburgh or Columbus, only much closer.  After reading through four pages of this thread it seems my fellow Akronites have a similar view.  To me it seems the only people who have a different opinion are Clevelanders who are caught up in the "My metro area is bigger than your metro area" three-c pissing contest who need Akron to pad their stats.

You misunderstand us.  Of course Akron isn't Cleveland.  Fort Worth isn't Dallas, either.  All we Clevelanders are saying is there's the same sort of DFW situation between us. 

 

We're not trying to "claim" Akron for some stupid pissing match, but we are saying that we're two distinct cities with significant overlap of economics, cultural resources, and yes, people (suburbs.)  How can you deny that?

 

We share a media market, but we have separate newspapers.  We use each other's airports.  People live in Brecksville and work in Akron, and live in Twinsburg and work in Cleveland.  We're a metroplex.  Do you understand the difference between that and saying that Akron *is* Cleveland?

So where does Canton/Stark County fit into the picture?  I asked in the original post, but it's been mostly ignored.  Above it seems that an Akronite was claiming that Akron-Canton are a metropolitan area, but in reality, Canton is its own MSA and isn't part of any greater CSA with Akron (or obviously Cleveland).

While I agree that there is a significant overlap between NEO cities, I guess the part I disagree with is that it should all be considered one area.  I feel there is quite a different feel between the two cities.  I think someone made a good point earlier in this thread about Cleveland having more of an Eastern European feel to it, while Akron has more of an Appalachian influence.  I also dont like the idea of a metropolitan area having more than one city in it.  It is kind of like referring to multiple areas of a city as downtown.  While I agree the cities have some degree of interconnection, I thought that is what the CSA designation was for.  While there is also a lot of connection between Akron and Canton, probably moreso than between Akron and Cleveland, I also believe they should remain seperated.  Akron has a lot of momentum going for it at the moment, and I believe being swallowed up by the Cleveland metropolitan area would crush some of that momentum.

While there is also a lot of connection between Akron and Canton

 

How so?

Sorry to split hairs, but the Canton MSA isn't just Canton, it's Canton and Massillon.  So, to me, an Akron Canton MSA makes as much sense as the Canton Massillon MSA.  But, I think this is probably irrelevant because MSA's are derived from commuting patterns, and not the psychology of the residents.

Nobody is saying Akron IS Cleveland, but that doesn't mean they couldn't all be one "area".  Lakewood isn't Cleveland and even has its own downtown, but is a different city distinct from Cleveland.  E. 105th and Euclid used to be considered a "second downtown".  Lorain and Elyria are distinct cities with their own feel, but still fall within the Greater Cleveland area.  There's no reason Akron couldn't be considered part of the "area" as well while still maintaining its own identity.

Akron is not Cleveland, as Tacoma isn't Seattle, St. Paul isn't Minneapolis, Fort Worth isn't Dallas.  BUT, the Cleveland/Akron area is ONE metro area whether anybody wants to recognize it as one or not.  Note, it is not the "Cleveland" metro area, it is the Cleveland/Akron metro area.

Akron is not Cleveland, as Tacoma isn't Seattle, St. Paul isn't Minneapolis, Fort Worth isn't Dallas. BUT, the Cleveland/Akron area is ONE metro area whether anybody wants to recognize it as one or not. Note, it is not the "Cleveland" metro area, it is the Cleveland/Akron metro area.

 

Perhaps you should do some more research

http://lmi.state.oh.us/maps/MapofMSAs2000.htm

While there is also a lot of connection between Akron and Canton

 

How so?

 

Dowtown to downtown is less than a half hour drive and in between are the CAK airport, the Belden Village area and the suburb of Green.  The area between the two is pretty much built out.

Dowtown to downtown is less than a half hour drive and in between are the CAK airport, the Belden Village area and the suburb of Green.  The area between the two is pretty much built out.

 

Perhaps you should do some more research

http://lmi.state.oh.us/maps/MapofMSAs2000.htm

While there is also a lot of connection between Akron and Canton

 

How so?

 

Dowtown to downtown is less than a half hour drive and in between are the CAK airport, the Belden Village area and the suburb of Green.  The area between the two is pretty much built out.

 

And this is that much different than Cleveland in which way? It's 40 min/35 MI DT to DT, and Akron to CLE is built out all the way up RT 8/480/270.

 

BTW 13, I am just messing with you a little bit, we have been through this several times already in this thread.

@jam40jeff

If you reread my earlier post you will see that I state that Akron and Canton should remain seperate.  I am well aware they are seperate MSA's, I was just trying to answer Clevelander17's question of what connection Akron and Canton share.  In fact, if you read the rest of the sentence he quoted you would see this.

I think someone made a good point earlier in this thread about Cleveland having more of an Eastern European feel to it, while Akron has more of an Appalachian influence.

 

Actually, the west side of Cleveland has a Midwestern feel, and the east side of Cleveland has an East Coast feel.  Maybe we should have a West of the Cuyahoga MSA and an East of the Cuyahoga MSA.  I think there may be more of a split between east side/west side in Cleveland than there is between east side/Akron. :)

@jam40jeff

If you reread my earlier post you will see that I state that Akron and Canton should remain seperate. I am well aware they are seperate MSA's, I was just trying to answer Clevelander17's question of what connection Akron and Canton share. In fact, if you read the rest of the sentence he quoted you would see this.

 

Sorry, I was thinking you were saying Akron and Canton should be combined, but I see now that you just said they have more in common than Akron and Cleveland (which I disagree with, I think all three cities have separate identities yet still could be considered one region).

Maybe I would agree with that if there was a 30,000+ acre forest between the east and west side.

I agree we are all in the same region, just disagree that we should all be one metro.

isnt that why it is considered a CSA and not a MSA?

Maybe I would agree with that if there was a 30,000+ acre forest between the east and west side.

Why, is there a 30,000 acre forest somewhere on Rte. 8?

Sorry to split hairs, but the Canton MSA isn't just Canton, it's Canton and Massillon.  So, to me, an Akron Canton MSA makes as much sense as the Canton Massillon MSA.  But, I think this is probably irrelevant because MSA's are derived from commuting patterns, and not the psychology of the residents.

 

How do you figure?  Massillon is adjacent to Canton, both in Stark County, so it makes sense that they are together in the same MSA.  Akron, on the other hand, is 25 miles away in a different county.  I don't see how your comment makes sense.

Sorry to split hairs, but the Canton MSA isn't just Canton, it's Canton and Massillon. So, to me, an Akron Canton MSA makes as much sense as the Canton Massillon MSA. But, I think this is probably irrelevant because MSA's are derived from commuting patterns, and not the psychology of the residents.

 

How do you figure? Massillon is adjacent to Canton, both in Stark County, so it makes sense that they are together in the same MSA. Akron, on the other hand, is 25 miles away in a different county. I don't see how your comment makes sense.

 

Mostly, I was responding to 13's statement: "I also dont like the idea of a metropolitan area having more than one city in it."  I wasn't thinking of county boundaries when I made the comment, so you're right.  Massillon being it's own MSA was never an option.

 

From what I've seen in this thread, there seems to be a stronger connection between Akron and Canton than there does between Akron and Cleveland.  So, to me, an Akron Canton MSA would make sense.  Or, to put it another way: Massillon is to Canton, as Canton is to Akron. (JMO, of course)

Sorry to split hairs, but the Canton MSA isn't just Canton, it's Canton and Massillon.  So, to me, an Akron Canton MSA makes as much sense as the Canton Massillon MSA.  But, I think this is probably irrelevant because MSA's are derived from commuting patterns, and not the psychology of the residents.

 

How do you figure?  Massillon is adjacent to Canton, both in Stark County, so it makes sense that they are together in the same MSA.  Akron, on the other hand, is 25 miles away in a different county.  I don't see how your comment makes sense.

 

Mostly, I was responding to 13's statement: "I also dont like the idea of a metropolitan area having more than one city in it."  I wasn't thinking of county boundaries when I made the comment, so you're right.  Massillon being it's own MSA was never an option.

 

From what I've seen in this thread, there seems to be a stronger connection between Akron and Canton than there does between Akron and Cleveland.  So, to me, an Akron Canton MSA would make sense.  Or, to put it another way: Massillon is to Canton, as Canton is to Akron. (JMO, of course)

 

Gotcha.  I'm having a hard time thinking of many other multi-city MSAs where both (or all three) cities are in the same county.

I'll duck the 365 day no-post warning and whatever other bullets that might be directed my way to chime in on this one, for what it's worth.

 

I was born and raised in Akron, and spent most of my life in town before moving elsewhere, though I am still in close contact with family, friends and the area in general.

 

The sense of "Akron" I have extends north to about Hudson, east to Ravenna, west to Medina (city proper), and south to Canton. Northern Summit County, or specifically the Hudson-Twinsburg-Macedonia area seems to be about the point at which Akron's identity overlaps with and dissolves into Cleveland's influence. Hudson specifically seems to be the place in which this happens. Many people in Hudson associate themselves in some way or another with Cleveland, but perhaps an equal number number look south to Akron as their primary point of reference, particularly when it comes to the politics of Akron/Summit County. Twinsburg, on the other hand, is more solidly Cleveland than Akron, whereas Stow, south of Hudson, is more solidly Akron than Cleveland.

 

Similar can be said for Medina. In the late 1990s and early 2000s Medina became a genuine bedroom community for Cleveland/Cuyahoga County thanks to I-71 and sprawl, but there are also a significant number of people there who moved in from Akron, commute to and from Akron and consider themselves Akronites instead of Clevelanders.

 

Cleveland has claimed Medina County as part of its MSA, but I think Brunswick may be the only true Cleveland suburb in the county, with few if any immediate economic, social or political associations with Akron. Wadsworth, on the other hand might as well be in Summit County as it is definitely an Akron suburb and has few if any immediate economic, social, or political associations with Cleveland. Again, as I suggested above, the city of Medina seems to be the specific overlap/transition point for Akron and Cleveland's influences/identities.

 

In general, Akron and Canton are politically and socially/culturally more identical to each other than either of them are with Cleveland. I would definitely agree as others have said that Cleveland is much more of an ethnic, culturally aware and diverse, "East Coast" city, whereas Akron and Canton each have more of an Appalachian vibe that resembles Pittsburgh's. The primary shared ties between Akron-Canton and Cleveland are sports--Browns, Cavs, Indians--broadcast media, and proximity. Within the past decade, this has also grown to include hospitals--namely the Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, Akron General and Summa--as well as colleges, such as Kent State, Cleveland State and the University of Akron. Akron and Canton have their own newspapers and a few significant radio stations but no major affiliate TV stations. Cleveland, on the other hand, hosts all major affiliate TV stations and a number of radio stations that seek to represent the region. I often have wondered if Akron and Canton's lack of significant broadcast stations is one reason why the cities are so often overlooked statewide and nationally, despite the size of their combined metro populations.

 

As far as how the cities see each other, Cleveland to Akron for a long time has been like a larger, older sibling that receives all of the attention, one way or another, and overshadows his younger sibling. Sometimes, the younger and smaller sibling becomes a little jealous of the attention, or at least is put off by having to reside in the older sibling's long shadow. Sometimes, the younger and smaller sibling just goes into "quiet storm" mode and works hard to find his own area in which to shine. Sooner or later he eventually succeeds in doing so, to the bewilderment of his older sibling. The older sibling sometimes tries to "mother" the younger sibling, and sometimes is so self-absorbed that he barely even notices that the younger sibling is there. This is the Cleveland-Akron relationship in a nutshell.

FWIW, I'm from eastern Lake county and I've lived in Akron for the past four years.

 

I get the feeling that the people from Cleveland's west side are better "connected" with Akron than the east side. The difference is especially evident when you compare places like Lake and Medina counties. A good gauge of this is their perspective of the University. People from places like Medina tend to view UA as a shitty commuter school. On the other hand, most people I know from eastern Lake county take road trips to Akron to party and tend to talk about the school in a less condescending manner. Of course, this is the perception of people in my age group(18-25), but I think my description is pretty fair.

 

I think NEOBuckeye described it pretty well. I agree that a lot of local Akronites are very different from Clevelanders, and I think part of this has to do with the strong Appalachian roots in Akron. Have you ever been to Kenmore? I seriously feel like I'm somewhere in Southwest PA or WV when I'm in Kenmore. So although Cleveland may have more of that "east coast" or Chicago-esque European influence, I'd also agree that Akron definitely has some strong Appalachian influence.

 

Another major difference between Akron and Cleveland is the terrain. Akron is filled with hills and ridges, especially in the northern and northwestern parts of town where the Cuyahoga river runs, and around the national park. By comparison, Cleveland is about as flat as a pancake until you get to the eastern suburbs in Lake and Geauga counties.

 

Btw, it's funny reading some of the posts by people outside the region. I never had any hard feelings towards Cincinnati, but it's pretty obvious that some of the Queen city boosters have some insecurities. I don't understand why? Cincy is a very picturesque city! Don't let us arrogant Clevelanders get to your head. :-D

Btw, it's funny reading some of the posts by people outside the region. I never had any hard feelings towards Cincinnati, but it's pretty obvious that some of the Queen city boosters have some insecurities. I don't understand why? Cincy is a very picturesque city! Don't let us arrogant Clevelanders get to your head. :-D

 

I never realized how much disdain that a great many Cincinnatians have for Cleveland until I went to college in Southwest Ohio.

@Republicats, that's interesting. I've never heard that point of view before. However I think I disagree a bit. Lake County is on the East Side, but so is Bedford, Solon and all of South East Cuyahoga County. I think there's probably a good number of residents from there that travel to the Akron Metropolitan area on a daily basis, thus feeling more connected to Akron than others in the area. My cousins who live in Bedford, ut travel to Medina frequently is one example.

 

Another thing, Cleveland is flat until you get to Euclid Avenue in the North and MLK Drive further south east as well as I-480 in the South, Though I agree it doesn't match Akron's hillyness until Geagua County.

 

NEOBUCKEYE, that was a great asessment of the Cleveland-Akron relationship. I think it sums it up well.

 

WELCOME you two!!!

@Republicats, that's interesting. I've never heard that point of view before. However I think I disagree a bit. Lake County is on the East Side, but so is Bedford, Solon and all of South East Cuyahoga County. I think there's probably a good number of residents from there that travel to the Akron Metropolitan area on a daily basis, thus feeling more connected to Akron than others in the area. My cousins who live in Bedford, ut travel to Medina frequently is one example.

 

Yes, I probably should have been more specific than just "east side". Sometimes I forget that not everyone is from the boonies.  :-P

 

Another thing, Cleveland is flat until you get to Euclid Avenue in the North and MLK Drive further south east as well as I-480 in the South, Though I agree it doesn't match Akron's hillyness until Geagua County.

 

Fair enough. I knew someone would call me out on the whole "flat as a pancake" hyperbole.  :-D

 

WELCOME you two!!!

 

Thanks!

NEOBuckeye and Republicrats, very interesting-- thanks!

A little late (coming from me) but thanks for the welcome! :-)

It was fascinating to go back and read through this thread 10-plus years later.  I feel personally more connected to both Cleveland and Canton for several reasons than I did when this thread popped off. I know my family and I have been more intentional about exploring and enjoying what the whole area has to offer, in the same way I did when living in Chicagoland.  When talking about distance traveled we can get to most Cleveland area attractions in 40 minutes or less, which in the grand scheme of things is very little time.  It will be interesting to see if any of the proposed mergers happen or if the area remains separate MSAs. 

Edited October 2, 20222 yr by westakron1

On 10/2/2011 at 6:01 AM, NEOBuckeye said:

Cleveland has claimed Medina County as part of its MSA, but I think Brunswick may be the only true Cleveland suburb in the county,

 A minor quibble: Medina County was assigned to the Cleveland MSA (just as Wayne County was more recently assigned to the CLeveland CSA) by the Feds at the Office of Management and Budget based on the hard data of commuting patterns.

 

I think Cleveland and Akron are like New York and Brooklyn or even Cleveland and Ohio City.  A single identity works better for both, but getting there involves swallowing a bit of pride.

47 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 A minor quibble: Medina County was assigned to the Cleveland MSA (just as Wayne County was more recently assigned to the CLeveland CSA) by the Feds at the Office of Management and Budget based on the hard data of commuting patterns.

 

I think Cleveland and Akron are like New York and Brooklyn or even Cleveland and Ohio City.  A single identity works better for both, but getting there involves swallowing a bit of pride.

 

Think more Dallas and Fort Worth or Minneapolis and St. Paul.   They should be considered part of the same MSA, but there's no way they would ever formally consolidate.

 

Brunswick, Hinckley, and even Brecksville are a lot like the Nordonia suburbs and even Walton Hills, sort of a borderlands that doesn't entirely identify with either.

On 10/2/2022 at 1:05 PM, E Rocc said:

 

Think more Dallas and Fort Worth or Minneapolis and St. Paul.   They should be considered part of the same MSA, but there's no way they would ever formally consolidate.

 

Brunswick, Hinckley, and even Brecksville are a lot like the Nordonia suburbs and even Walton Hills, sort of a borderlands that doesn't entirely identify with either.

 

I didn't mean to suggest an organizational merger, just an identity one.  To the world the area is Cleveland, locally distinctions remain, are encouraged and enjoyed.

15 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

I didn't mean to suggest an organizational merger, just an identity one.  To the world the area is Cleveland, locally distinctions remain, are encouraged and enjoyed.

 

I think I might disagree.

 

I think there should be a regional identity insofar as there is collaboration between the cities to the benefit of each of the cities. But without the cities in the region having a strong identity there is less of a pull to each of them and we maintain the current status quo of regional sprawl to no ones benefit. 

 

Maybe too tough of a needle to thread, or maybe I'm over emphasizing a city's identity as a pull to cities when it really just comes down to the built environment. I still think Cleveland and Akron are distinct enough that to muddle them into one you'll lose a lot. 

I agree, i think it's best for the Cleveland and Akron areas to remain separate, and just complement each other without being combined. The two cities are just to distinct in every way and not inter-connected.

10 minutes ago, vulcana said:

I agree, i think it's best for the Cleveland and Akron areas to remain separate, and just complement each other without being combined. The two cities are just to distinct in every way and not inter-connected.

I dunno.  "Clakron" kinda has a ring to it 😜

31 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I dunno.  "Clakron" kinda has a ring to it 😜

 

Akland.

Cleveland and Akron will never truly merge as cities, per se, barring some massive influx of new population growth and economic investment that puts NEO on the scale of NYC or Toronto in short order. Still, it is increasingly clear that their economic fates are intertwined, such that when Cleveland sneezes, Akron catches a cold, if not worse. Cleveland owns or dominates most Akron institutions and industries now (e.g. hospitals, media, banking/finance) and is now extending its reach further south into Canton. Akron may remain separate culturally and politically for the foreseeable future, but economically, it is very much a captured satellite of the “sun” in NEO that is Cleveland.

 

 

As a side note, I always dreamed that someone would launch a startup in Akron that would takeoff and become a magnet for investment and similar enterprises that would (re)locate to the city, giving Akron and the surrounding region a fresh shot in the arm in terms of energy, status and outside interest/influx of new people, ideas and culture. Seems far fetched these days, but who knows?

I disagree, Cleveland owns one hospital in Akron, Summa and Akron Childrens and other hospitals are independent and own many satellite hospitals throughout Northeast Ohio as far away as Mahoning county. Akrons leading banks are Huntington, Chase, PNC, and US bank, unless i am wrong these are not Cleveland banks. Akron/Canton is dominated by it's own industries, Goodyear, First Energy. Diebold, Timken, and thousands of many smaller industries . Akron is its own radio market, yes major Cleveland T.V stations have a footing in Akron area but with cable televisions popularity even that is minimized. So the facts are Akron/Canton area is no satellite of the Cleveland area, you are confusing it with Lorain/Elyria.

I understand the pushback. Yes, Akron still is home to Goodyear, the last of the Big 4 legacy rubber companies to maintain its HQ in the city. Corporate banking is all based elsewhere though. Huntington, based in Columbus, absorbed FirstMerit, Akron's hometown bank in 2016, leaving it without a major banking corporation HQ. PNC is based in Pittsburgh, while US Bank and Chase are based in Minneapolis and NYC, respectively. You neglected to mention KeyBank, which has its HQ in Cleveland. Fair point that not all Akron banking is based in Cleveland, but also none of it is based in Akron anymore.

 

I'll push back on the media piece also. The fact is, Cleveland dominates broadcast media--radio and TV--in NE Ohio. The majority of stations on FM, AM and TV are out of Cleveland or its suburbs. Personally I wish things were more diversified and that a stronger secondary pole existed in NEO between Akron and Canton, but it's not even remotely the case. Akron itself hasn't even had its own major network TV broadcast affiliate (ABC) since PAX stole Channel 23 and relocated its studios to the Cleveland suburbs in 1996. Cable doesn't even remotely address this gap.

 

Diebold and Timken are based in Canton. (Diebold is in North Canton if we really want to get technical about it.)

 

FirstEnergy is in downtown Akron now, although it does have historical roots in Cleveland.

 

Also, FWIW, pre-pandemic, the ratio of commuters into Cuyahoga County from Summit County and surrounding counties was approximately 3:1.

 

Like I said, I would love to see Akron (and Canton by extension) stand more strongly on its own. I'm a homegrown Akronite, so I get the pride thing and all. I'm also a realist. Right now, and for the far foreseeable future, Akron's economy is going to be strongly influenced by what goes on up in Cleveland, and in other places also.