Posted September 3, 201014 yr You'll have to forgive me if this has already been posted. If it has, I believe it deserves its own thread and discussion, regardless. I found this out from someone who isn't from Ohio. This is just one more reason for the country to perceive us as an @ss-backwards state. This is something I'd expect in the south, not here. COLUMBUS -- Ohio's highest court has ruled that a person may be convicted of speeding purely if it looked to a police officer that the motorist was going too fast. The Ohio Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that an officer's visual estimation of speed is enough to support a conviction if the officer is trained, certified by a training academy, and experienced in watching for speeders. Secondary source: http://www.wlwt.com/news/23767184/detail.html This decision was so popular that it received a 5-1 vote! I just couldn't believe it, so I had to look into it, myself. Do you know what this does? It gives an officer who is also trained to stereotype and look for absolutely anything suspect or out-of-place - as a lead, an excuse to waste your time and money by pulling you over. Lets look at all of the technology an Officer of the Law possesses in his or her arsenal for incident verification, which citizens gladly pay taxes for to protect themselves from the occasional abuse of their executive power: Breathalyzer: Tests the concentration of alcohol in blood at a range of up to 23% inaccuracy. Hey, that's fine. If someone only had one beer, they would probably drive unrecklessly, wouldn't smell of alcohol anyway and would likely pass a field sobriety test, so whatever. I really don't think people should drink and drive at all, even though admittedly, I've done it. Tasers: Generally are very safe, shoot out a high-voltage electric current along with dozens of serial-numbered paper strips that are deployed to the target containing information on who the taser is registered to. We have these because many cops, after their expert training which this article sings praises to, proved that they cannot accurately gauge when it's appropriate to shoot an individual. Such was the case in Cincinnati, when a guy ran and pulled his sagging pants up while the officer claims he believed he was pulling out a gun, instead. Of course the rest is history - riots, national publicity and celebrities banning the city from their travels. Dash-mounted Cameras: No brainer. These record the incident so there's no dispute about what happened between the officer and citizen. Radar/Laser/PACE: Radar clocks speed within roughly a 3mph range and is often required to be calibrated and inspected frequently, by a repair facility (depending on your local and state laws.) Lasers are often required to be tested daily by the officer and they're even more accurate than radar, when the officer is at a stand-still. PACE citations occur when an officer clocks your speed by following right behind you. In this scenario, MTDs (the patrol car's computer) connects the video camera up-front to the computer's GPS which accurately calculates the patrol car's speed as he's in-flow of the car ahead. Now, it would seem to me that with all of this technology we pay for, there should be absolutely NO excuse for things like pulling someone over because some officer's eyes and brain indicated to them that someone was going over the speed limit. I hate to use the phrase, "We're all guilty until proven innocent" but if this isn't a testament to that, then I don't know what the hell is. In fact, it's worse because there is absolutely no way to prove you are innocent. Did you know that Florida passed a law this year, before we ruled this one, that officers MUST include the type of speed measurement device, along with the manufacturer's serial number (probably to verify that it was professionally inspected recent enough) on the front of the citation given?! If that information about the device used to verify the speed isn't written on the front of the citation, The Clerks Office will AUTOMATICALLY dismiss the ticket because they consider there to be no proof of the person speeding. It's not surprising at all that traffic citations have increased DRAMATICALLY lately, in Ohio. Then you have those traffic cameras which have an incentive to be ill-calibrated since they're privatized but share profits with the local government. (Ironically, City Police actually encourages people to contest those in court because it steals from their dept.'s gravy train.) In all honesty, I support the idea of traffic cameras. It's less '1984' than officers pulling you over without use of speed detection devices, running your plates, asking you where you're going or mustering up some bullsh!t probable cause to search your car. I guess the problem I see is that these cameras are relatively new technology and I highly doubt any legislation has been passed yet that requires them to calibrate speed/red light cameras and have them independently inspected, regularly.
September 3, 201014 yr Hopefully someone gets together a constitutional amendment for this. It would easily pass.
September 3, 201014 yr I don't really feel this is a big deal unless the detectors can now be interrogated to prove that the speed was actually recorded at that time. You don't need a device to tell you that someone is speeding. A stop watch and a known distance works just as well. Again, without a built in device record, or a means of reporting, it's just as easily fudgeable by a cop.
September 3, 201014 yr You don't think it's a big deal? Officers along with the Judicial System are rewarded for the issuing of citations wherein people are automatically proven guilty. Citations essentially keep City, County and State Courts along with law enforcement, in business. It's job security. If you were to get a ticket and prove that you're innocent, they don't make any money off of you. You've wasted an officer's time and a judge's time. Justice and the law are in different worlds. There's something fishy about this ruling.
September 3, 201014 yr A dishonest cop is still dishonest whether he/she is using their eyes, ears, or a speed gun. There's undoubtedly a larger margin of error using the tools the cop was born with; however, I don't feel that demands a complete moratorium on their use. Rather, just a different set of rules, which I'd hope doesn't require a state constitutional amendment. I feel dirty standing up for cops, but this one makes sense to me.
September 3, 201014 yr This really is nothing new. 'Opinions' as to rate of speed have always been admissible in court.... cops or not. The question in this case, I believe, is if such an opinion, on its own, could be enough to convict. Sure, it COULD be, but the State/City/whatever still has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Any advocate worth his salt could beat a charge based SOLELY on the officer's observation.
September 3, 201014 yr What makes sense is that speeding tickets pay a huge percentage of court fees, and are extremely efficient at doing so. They're priced high enough that the court can profit, yet low enough that it's not worth it to most people to fight, and even if they do they have no chance of winning, anyways. Speeding tickets are nothing more than a selective tax that pays for our judicial system. Now, there is literally no burden of proof on the state. I don't know how this can possible be considered "due process."
September 3, 201014 yr This really is nothing new. 'Opinions' as to rate of speed have always been admissible in court.... cops or not. The question in this case, I believe, is if such an opinion, on its own, could be enough to convict. Sure, it COULD be, but the State/City/whatever still has to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Any advocate worth his salt could beat a charge based SOLELY on the officer's observation. Apparently, they don' need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The officer said he verified it with radar yet he couldn't even prove that he was certified in using a radar. It just seems weird to me. I'd have no issue with cops estimating speeds with their brain if law enforcement and the judicial system weren't the direct beneficiaries of the funds they collect from tickets. They did a poll on that website and 92% of people think that police should not be allowed to issue tickets based solely on how fast they think a car is going. There were 4,000 votes total.
September 5, 201014 yr I suppose this case is a result of the Ohio Supreme Court adhering to some jurisdiction's rare policy. Hello David, Sorry for my apprehension in answering you question; it appears to have a hidden agenda…such as you may have recently cited for speeding… Regardless of the intent, the answer to your questions is yes, all law enforcement officer are trained to estimate speed without using any traditional means of speed measuring device however an officer can not issue a ticket based on a visual estimation alone. Each agency have their own policy on speed enforcement however it is safe to say that most require at least 2 means and most common is 3 forms of confirmation for determining speed before an officer will pull over an individual.
July 6, 20222 yr Six Democratic Candidates Unblocked for Ohio Primary Election on August 2nd The Ohio Supreme Court has ruled against the state secretary of state’s decision to disqualify six candidates from the Aug. 2 primary. The candidates – William DeMora, Anita Somani, Elizabeth Thien, Leronda Jackson, Bridgette Tupes and Gary Martin – all filed their candidacy at least 90 days before the August election, therefore the 4-3 majority of the court ordered their candidacy accepted and certified. There was confusion about official candidacy deadlines because of redistricting work being done over the last nine months, which included five different attempts by the Ohio Redistricting Commission to pass legislative maps. The legislative maps were rejected by the Ohio Supreme Court at every turn. More below: https://columbusunderground.com/six-democratic-candidates-unblocked-for-ohio-primary-election-on-august-2nd-ocj1/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 6, 20222 yr Ohio Courts Determine Backpack Marijuana Search Was Unconstitutional At first, the officers said they searched her backpack looking for weapons. In the end, they found only marijuana-infused cereal and some of the drug in flower and concentrate form. Officers went on to charge Kennedy Burroughs with felony possession of marijuana. The Ohio Supreme Court unanimously overturned her conviction Tuesday. The justices ruled that the Marion Police Department officers had no legal right to search Burroughs’ backpack where they found the marijuana. The officers did not have a warrant for a search, and the justices rebuffed their rationale for conducting one anyways. The ruling sends the case back to lower courts to consider. Addressing the Supreme Court, prosecutors sought to justify the search under the “single-purpose container exception” to the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which allows some searches without a warrant when an officer sees in plain view a container so distinctive that its contents are a forgone conclusion, like a rifle case. “When police search a bookbag in a home under circumstances that do not give rise to any exigency, they must follow the command of the Fourth Amendment: get a warrant,” wrote Justice Patrick DeWine. More below: https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-courts-determine-backpack-marijuana-search-was-unconstitutional-ocj1/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 14, 20222 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 26, 20222 yr WTF "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 22, 20222 yr Hamilton County's Joe Deters appointed to Ohio Supreme Court by Gov. Mike DeWine Hamilton County's longtime prosecutor Joe Deters is headed to the state's highest court. On Thursday, Gov. Mike DeWine announced plans to appoint Deters, 65, to the Ohio Supreme Court, filling a vacancy created by Sharon Kennedy's move to chief justice. DeWine's appointment ends weeks of speculation about the future plans for a fixture of local politics. According to a news release, Deters will be sworn in Jan. 7 and have to run for the post in 2024. Hamilton County Republicans will be tasked with naming Deters' successor. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/12/22/deters-ohio-supreme-court-nomination.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 23, 20222 yr I suppose finding an Ohio Republican that hasn’t been involved in massive scandal would be difficult, but they could at least try. https://www.citybeat.com/news/news-deters-is-safe-at-home-12215839?media=AMP+HTML … “But for those working beyond Hamilton County's provinciality, Deters is a political liability. He served adequately as state treasurer, an office that generally runs on autopilot, until a criminal investigation of former Cleveland broker Frank Gruttadauria. That probe unearthed a questionable relationship between the state treasurer's office and Gruttadauria, who swindled more than $125 million from his clients and who is now serving seven years in a federal prison for securities crimes.“ … “As outlined in CityBeat in 2002 (see "Deters' Questionable Fund-Raising," issue of April 18-24, 2002), evidence of such a money-laundering scheme can also be seen in the flow of cash from the HCRP to various candidates. At Deters' request, the HCRP funneled more than $300,000 into his campaign from March 2001 to January 2002. Gov. Bob Taft's re-election campaign received only $12,020 from the HCRP during the same period, and Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell received just $94,500. Like Deters, both Taft and Blackwell began their political careers in Hamilton County and retain close ties to this area.” … “At least for the short term, Deters' career is running in reverse as he returns to Cincinnati. If he ever surfaces again on the statewide level, Ohioans might remember that Deters either directed the questionable actions of his staff or that he was an ineffective leader who exercised inadequate control over his subordinates.” When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
August 4, 2024Aug 4 Next, the Ohio Supreme Court declares night is day "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 6, 2024Nov 6 Need another reason to flee Ohio? Breaking: Ohio Republicans have tightened their grip on the Ohio Supreme Court from 4-3 to 6-1 by ousting two incumbent Democratic justices and winning a third, open seat, the Associated Press projects. https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/11/05/republicans-win-all-three-ohio-supreme-court-races-increasing-hold-over-court-to-6-1-ap-projects/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 6, 2024Nov 6 20 minutes ago, KJP said: Need another reason to flee Ohio? Breaking: Ohio Republicans have tightened their grip on the Ohio Supreme Court from 4-3 to 6-1 by ousting two incumbent Democratic justices and winning a third, open seat, the Associated Press projects. https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/11/05/republicans-win-all-three-ohio-supreme-court-races-increasing-hold-over-court-to-6-1-ap-projects/ Great news!
November 6, 2024Nov 6 17 minutes ago, cbussoccer said: Great news! Its never good news to have such a skewed set of justices regardless of party.
