July 25, 20231 yr Update on the Cleveland Whiskey development in the south flats, with rough opening date
August 16, 20231 yr Big update in tomorrow's board meeting agenda for the Cleveland Metroparks. The Metroparks have agreed to purchase the Graincraft property for $3,500,000. This isn't a surprising development and it has been guessed by a few board members already. Personally I'm happy with this development. I'd like to see what the Metroparks can do with this area. Both park areas they are attempting to connect are subpar currently in my opinion, hopefully they are improved in this transformation. Hopefully this will include several road closures. If nothing else, this development virtually guarantees continuous riverfront boardwalk/trails from settlers landing to the Foundry. Additionally Catanese seafood property is currently under contract, but will be leased back to the current owners till May 15th 2024.
August 16, 20231 yr When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I can't recall from when we talked about this earlier. Was there a plan to carve out space for mixed use on the site? Columbus peninsula would be such a unique neighborhood with the right urban development.
August 16, 20231 yr 28 minutes ago, Ethan said: Big update in tomorrow's board meeting agenda for the Cleveland Metroparks. The Metroparks have agreed to purchase the Graincraft property for $3,500,000. This isn't a surprising development and it has been guessed by a few board members already. Personally I'm happy with this development. I'd like to see what the Metroparks can do with this area. Both park areas they are attempting to connect are subpar currently in my opinion, hopefully they are improved in this transformation. Hopefully this will include several road closures. If nothing else, this development virtually guarantees continuous riverfront boardwalk/trails from settlers landing to the Foundry. Additionally Catanese seafood property is currently under contract, but will be leased back to the current owners till May 15th 2024. I'm guessing this is entirely about the boardwalk, and that the Metroparks will sell any leftover land once it's completed. None of the long-term planning (like Vision for the Valley, which Metroparks was part of) calls for basically the entire peninsula to be a park. If that's what the Metroparks is doing, I think it's great because they won't have to depend on other property owners granting them access to build the boardwalk, and once the boardwalk is in place, the area should be so much more desirable that it'll attract some decent development.
August 16, 20231 yr 11 minutes ago, acd said: I'm guessing this is entirely about the boardwalk, and that the Metroparks will sell any leftover land once it's completed. None of the long-term planning (like Vision for the Valley, which Metroparks was part of) calls for basically the entire peninsula to be a park. If that's what the Metroparks is doing, I think it's great because they won't have to depend on other property owners granting them access to build the boardwalk, and once the boardwalk is in place, the area should be so much more desirable that it'll attract some decent development. That's extremely plausible given the Metroparks plans for the Catanese Seafood site. The agenda doesn't state their intent for these parcels yet though. Personally I'd like a large half peninsula size park, but I think that's the minority opinion here (I'm just a big fan of parks).. On 2/22/2023 at 9:53 PM, Ethan said: The Metroparks just sent out an RFP for the two Catanese Classics parcels they bought in the flats. They are looking to develop and preserve a riverfront trail. It looks like they bought just to ensure the boardwalk / trail gets built. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-metroparks-seeks-developer-catanese-properties-flats "After striking a $4 million deal to buy the Catanese Classics properties in the Flats, Cleveland Metroparks is seeking a developer to reimagine part of the site. Through a request for proposals posted on its procurement website, the parks system is soliciting redevelopment plans for 0.52 inland acres on Merwin Avenue. The Metroparks also will consider proposals for part of the riverfront land across the street, as long as projects sit at least 30 feet from the water." So they are set on developing the inland parcels and will develop the riverfront parcels for the right proposal. I'd admittedly like to see the riverfront parcel stay with the metroparks, but will withhold judgement until the proposals come in. (Assuming they also buy the grain mill, I wouldn't mind holding both parcels as a park, but I really like parks). Perhaps it's good the Metroparks is thinking differently. Edit: Here's the relevant portion of the agenda in case anyone wants to speculate based on their verbage.
August 16, 20231 yr 11 minutes ago, Ethan said: That's extremely plausible given the Metroparks plans for the Catanese Seafood site. The agenda doesn't state their intent for these parcels yet though. Personally I'd like a large half peninsula size park, but I think that's the minority opinion here (I'm just a big fan of parks).. Edit: Here's the relevant portion of the agenda in case anyone wants to speculate based on their verbage. I agree with you actually, I basically always prefer more parkspace. Though in this case, even just having the waterfront trail would be fine with me. Thanks for finding that article, I knew I remembered them requesting proposals for part of one of their purchases. That's why I was thinking they'd offload some of this property as well.
August 16, 20231 yr We have a street grid and accompanying infrastructure already in place on Columbus. Would be great if we could build out a neighborhood on it. Wouldn’t take near the work Scranton needs.
August 16, 20231 yr interesting other items on the agenda for the flats west bank. Three demos and one rehab all for one big city block by the bridge. Also I googled the architects for the rehab and they are the same ones that designed Church+State in Ohio City: Edited August 16, 20231 yr by dwolfi01
August 16, 20231 yr The 4 story, 2390 Center St. building needs saved. That first floor with the arches would make some cool storefronts. But go ahead, let’s keep bulldozing any semblance of our city’s history for a gravel lot. SMDH
August 16, 20231 yr 16 minutes ago, marty15 said: The 4 story, 2390 Center St. building needs saved. That first floor with the arches would make some cool storefronts. But go ahead, let’s keep bulldozing any semblance of our city’s history for a gravel lot. SMDH Pretty stunning lack of imagination, even for Cleveland. I’ve been in that building, there were at least a few live work spaces and artist studios. I can’t imagine owning something like that and deciding to demo. Pretty depressing!
August 17, 20231 yr I find Cleveland to be extremely hypocritical if they really allow the demolition. How do you want to build a 15 minute city and continue to allow your historic urban fabric to be destroyed and become “temporary” parking lots. It literally does the opposite, either you’re serious about 15 minute cities or your not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
August 17, 20231 yr 4 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: I find Cleveland to be extremely hypocritical if they really allow the demolition. How do you want to build a 15 minute city and continue to allow your historic urban fabric to be destroyed and become “temporary” parking lots. It literally does the opposite, either you’re serious about 15 minute cities or your not. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pretty sure the city doesn't have an unlimited ability to withhold demolition permits if that's what the property owner wants.
August 17, 20231 yr Pretty sure the city doesn't have an unlimited ability to withhold demolition permits if that's what the property owner wants.You still have to put your foot down sometimes, we seem to okay demolition without any hesitation ESPECIALLY in the West Bank. When is enough enough down there? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
August 18, 20231 yr Local design review flexed yesterday. We'll see if CPC does the same today. The former self-storage building was denied. Demo for the two other buildings was approved. https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=4473&CASE=DF 2023-037 Date: August 17, 2023 Committee: Local Design Review Committee Action Type: Disapproved Conditions: Recommendation to deny as presented with the hope that the building can be preserved based on the significance of this building and its existence on the National Register of Historic Places. It is important to the fabric of the neighborhood, the history of the flats, and the City. The denial relates to the lack of evidence of the infeasibility to retain the building in a use that would allow it to continue. The evidence would consist of an architectural engineering study, alternate plan, potential use, alternate cost estimate, market study, and pro forma to show that it is not feasible. Edited August 18, 20231 yr by Mendo
August 18, 20231 yr AEG Presents, Jacobs plan new concert venue on the west bank of the Flats August 18, 2023 MICHELLE JARBOE Quote AEG Presents LLC, a major venue manager, plans to open a new concert hall on the west bank of the Flats, in a building that started its life as part of the Globe Iron Works foundry. Documents submitted to the city show a 1,200-capacity venue at Elm Street and Spruce Avenue, on a long-dormant block. Clevelanders probably know the building best as the onetime home of the Metropolis nightclub. The landlord, an affiliate of Jacobs Entertainment Inc., and AEG Presents expect to jointly invest $5.5 million in renovations. AEG, which already manages nearby Jacobs Pavilion and owns and operates the Agora in Midtown, hopes to open the venue, called Globe Iron, by mid-2024. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/aeg-presents-jacobs-plan-concert-venue-clevelands-flats Edited August 18, 20231 yr by Luke_S
August 18, 20231 yr Just now, Luke_S said: AEG Presents, Jacobs plan new concert venue on the west bank of the Flats August 18, 2023 MICHELLE JARBOE https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/aeg-presents-jacobs-plan-concert-venue-clevelands-flats How many small-ish concert venues does the west bank need?
August 18, 20231 yr 3 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said: How many small-ish concert venues does the west bank need? People show up so I guess endless
August 18, 20231 yr Im guessing this is a play by AEG to support west bank when Jacobs is closed for the season. I just hope we can eventually get some housing infill here soon. It could be a cool neighborhood with the new entertainment options coming.
August 18, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Ineffable_Matt said: How many small-ish concert venues does the west bank need? In the article AEG says this is venue will compliment facilities they have in Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit and Pittsburgh, and allow smaller acts to grow into other venues AEG operates in Cleveland like the Agora and Jacob's Pavilion. I think there can be kind of a synergy from having a lot of concert venues in one place. If there was any sort of central planning for the West Bank I think it should fill in around the existing venues with smaller bars that host live music so people can bar hop and hear a bunch of different music. We don't really have a centralized place for that in Cleveland and it can make for a really lively neighborhood.
August 18, 20231 yr Local design review flexed yesterday. We'll see if CPC does the same today. The former self-storage building was denied. Demo for the two other buildings was approved. https://planning.clevelandohio.gov/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=4473&CASE=DF 2023-037 Date: August 17, 2023 Committee: Local Design Review Committee Action Type: Disapproved Conditions: Recommendation to deny as presented with the hope that the building can be preserved based on the significance of this building and its existence on the National Register of Historic Places. It is important to the fabric of the neighborhood, the history of the flats, and the City. The denial relates to the lack of evidence of the infeasibility to retain the building in a use that would allow it to continue. The evidence would consist of an architectural engineering study, alternate plan, potential use, alternate cost estimate, market study, and pro forma to show that it is not feasible. I’ll take the win wherever I canSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
August 18, 20231 yr I’m watch the planning commission on YouTube and Nautica’s case to demolish the historic buildings is essentially “no one knows what was here before anyway”. They are proposing reusing materials and adding a plaque to explain what was there. Why not renovate it and add the plaque anyway? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
August 18, 20231 yr So AEG is who wants to destroy the Center building for this. Now Im rooting against this venue if they want to keep destroying the Center building. Just revamp it with this and have a really unique space.
August 18, 20231 yr They should just have the entrance come from the parking lot and not destroy a historical building so they can have a venue walkway. So so dumb.
August 18, 20231 yr The self storage building of any of the buildings in the block should stay. Feels like they could build something similar north of this block in the parking lot or do the plan w/o the demo and put the courtyard stuff on the parking lot to the north. I don’t think this will work out for them, there’s also so many oceans of parking lots down there they should be developing on the lots before demoing anything of significance, and get building a parking garage.
August 18, 20231 yr ^ Exactly... This area is MOSTLY parking lots. Why are we demolishing vs. filling in? Makes no sense to me.
August 18, 20231 yr During the dialogue after the presentation the CPC made the case that there already is a sea of parking in the flats and we have already lost so many buildings on the National Registry (25 buildings was a number mentioned). They mentioned this being in an overlay zoning area and that was done to create a walkable vibrant neighborhood. They said that although all buildings can’t be saved we need to save as many as they can. Essentially they have postponed all demolitions of the buildings until they can come back with a clearer site plan and they also want to see a site plan that shows what it would look like with the 4 story building there. They are giving Nautica a chance to make their case to demolish the building but you can tell they strongly prefer keeping the 4 story building.Nautica didn’t come off as prepared and played the game of “Well Dad said no let me go to mom, I know she’ll say yes”.So a temporary win for now.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
August 18, 20231 yr the four story building would really make for some great apartments with good vibes courtesy of mulberry’s
August 18, 20231 yr What a terrible site plan. Has anyone from AEG been down there? If they had, they might be like; “Well look at this! There’s parking lots literally everywhere down here! We won’t have to provide our own!”
August 18, 20231 yr Quote “These are often difficult questions,” Grunenwald said near the end of Thursday’s two-hour-long public meeting. “I hear you loud and clear about other information. And that can be produced. I could show you all sorts of studies. Studies are great. I live in a world where I have to build things, and it doesn’t matter what somebody puts on paper.” On the contrary he wants to tear down what others built. He's not building anything at all.
August 18, 20231 yr talk about underwhelming wow. I thought they were going to have some big grand plan. Since they were looking to demolish a whole city block I thought something big might be going in there. But I guess I gave them too much credit. The parking lot is the icing on the cake. Talk about pointless.
August 18, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Luke_S said: In the article AEG says this is venue will compliment facilities they have in Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit and Pittsburgh, and allow smaller acts to grow into other venues AEG operates in Cleveland like the Agora and Jacob's Pavilion. I think there can be kind of a synergy from having a lot of concert venues in one place. If there was any sort of central planning for the West Bank I think it should fill in around the existing venues with smaller bars that host live music so people can bar hop and hear a bunch of different music. We don't really have a centralized place for that in Cleveland and it can make for a really lively neighborhood. I was thinking about this exact thing today - Cleveland not only lacks a "music district," but a single venue where you can walk down the sidewalk, peer through a window, and simply see a band playing on the inside from the sidewalk. You know, anything that projects life outward to passing pedestrians. Not one comes to mind. Its a subtle detail that, once noticed, becomes a giant gaping hole for the city. Like, how does neither Ohio City, nor Tremont, nor University Circle, nor the Flats, have a single bar / restaurant with regularly scheduled music you can see from the sidewalk? I guess Lakewood or Coventry might have the occasional dive but still - these are, supposedly, the "liveliest" places in the Cleve - the supposed home of Rock and Roll (big lol). HoB also doesn't count. This should be elevated for City and County economic development folks - surely, something can be done to support the creation of a unified music district with a diverse range of venues. The Flats could be great if these dipsh!t developers stopped tearing down buildings and actually focused on building something creative for once. Edited August 18, 20231 yr by ASP1984
August 18, 20231 yr I skimmed through the CPC video. There was an odd throwaway comment from Grunenwald saying that Spruce was already vacated with regards to the loading dock. I hope somebody in planning picked up on that, since the city and county GIS still shows the street as a public right of way.
August 18, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Mendo said: I hope somebody in planning picked up on that, since the city and county GIS still shows the street as a public right of way. Yeah our recorder is also showing it as active. Without searching all city ordinances for "Spruce" I can't say for sure, but yeah, this dude is full of it. Spruce at the loading dock is vacated, if you're looking at the viewer it's 003-16-040 now. Edited August 18, 20231 yr by GISguy Also sidenote, the city uses county info in most of their online viewers (streets, centerlines, parcels, etc.) so you're prob looking at the same thing in both viewers.
August 18, 20231 yr 20 minutes ago, GISguy said: Yeah our recorder is also showing it as active. Without searching all city ordinances for "Spruce" I can't say for sure, but yeah, this dude is full of it. Spruce at the loading dock is vacated, if you're looking at the viewer it's 003-16-040 now. That parcel looks like it's on the opposite (South) side of Center St, not in front of the old Metropolis space. *shrug*
August 29, 20231 yr Has anyone heard an update on the Center Street Bridge? Last I heard they were hoping to open it this summer. Are there any official sources for updates?
August 29, 20231 yr Ohio DOT has a page for this project that allows public Q&A. To their credit DOT has responded that same question. Based on their reply it seems likely by end of September. https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/projects/projects/109597 Edited August 29, 20231 yr by Mendo
August 29, 20231 yr Those responses are disappointing. This project is long past its original completion date. And given how many times this project has already slipped, and that they still aren't willing to commit to a firm date, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it slips again... Hate to be negative but this project has given me few reasons not to be.
August 29, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, Jax said: Has anyone heard an update on the Center Street Bridge? Last I heard they were hoping to open it this summer. Are there any official sources for updates? The hope is to be open to traffic by the end of next week. There are a lot of moving parts (pun intended) and reasons why providing a firm date for opening the bridge is difficult. I can try in explain in more detail if you’d like. After opening to traffic, there will still be intermittent stoppages in order to complete the work. The official responses are definitely overly kind to the contractor who’s fault this is almost completely. Edited August 29, 20231 yr by Enginerd
August 29, 20231 yr 56 minutes ago, Enginerd said: The hope is to be open to traffic by the end of next week. There are a lot of moving parts (pun intended) and reasons why providing a firm date for opening the bridge is difficult. I can try in explain in more detail if you’d like. After opening to traffic, there will still be intermittent stoppages in order to complete the work. The official responses are definitely overly kind to the contractor who’s fault this is almost completely. End of next week sounds SO much better than a vague "end of summer." Hopefully that proves correct! I'd be interested in the more detail version of this.
August 29, 20231 yr 15 minutes ago, Ethan said: End of next week sounds SO much better than a vague "end of summer." Hopefully that proves correct! I'd be interested in the more detail version of this. To be fair I was always told to not paint yourself into a corner. If I keep giving deadlines at work and keep pushing them back it looks bad so I'm sure given how this project has panned out they learned their lesson on giving hard dates with issues still up in the air that might come up. But also to be fair if I was 19 months late completing a project at work I probably wouldn't have a job in the first place lol.
August 29, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Ethan said: End of next week sounds SO much better than a vague "end of summer." Hopefully that proves correct! I'd be interested in the more detail version of this. In order to open it to traffic the balance of the bridge has to measured to ensure its safe operation. Because many of its systems have been disengaged, taken apart or replaced, the entire system process needs to be run without issue multiple times (e.g. the traffic light turns red, then the gates go down, then the jacks disengage, then the bridge moves and stops in the correct location, etc). Because of all of this, there are a lot of areas where something could potentially go wrong and push the opening date back, although this time only slightly. I wouldn’t be surprised if the bridge ended up opening the following week (of the 11th).
September 8, 20231 yr 14 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said: Love that last pic! Going to be some cool views for some of these units, at least until they build the next phases...
September 12, 20231 yr My brother talked to one of the bridge workers, and they are shooting for "end of September."
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