November 30, 201014 yr I don't think this building was really anything special- architecturally it's nondescript and set back behind a parking lot. If it goes, I won't shed a tear for it. True, but it was an institution for so many years....and for once I wish that before we demolished a building, we'd have a shovel ready project ready to take its place...and not have some scenario like the oceans of pavement west of Public Square that has been like that for soooo long.
November 30, 201014 yr I don't think this building was really anything special- architecturally it's nondescript and set back behind a parking lot. If it goes, I won't shed a tear for it. True, but it was an institution for so many years....and for once I wish that before we demolished a building, we'd have a shovel ready project ready to take its place...and not have some scenario like the oceans of pavement west of Public Square that has been like that for soooo long. The warehouse district hasn't been full since the 40's I believe. The 50's it was still mostly full though.
November 30, 201014 yr I don't think this building was really anything special- architecturally it's nondescript and set back behind a parking lot. If it goes, I won't shed a tear for it. True, but it was an institution for so many years....and for once I wish that before we demolished a building, we'd have a shovel ready project ready to take its place...and not have some scenario like the oceans of pavement west of Public Square that has been like that for soooo long. The "oceans of pavement" were created for a specific purpose, not because we did not have something shovel ready to take their place. We, on this forum, don't agree with that purpose... but you can't deny there was one. I also think you are thinking too far ahead at this point. The owners don't even have permission to demolish the building yet.... and I don't believe that whether or not there is a shovel ready project is a factor the appropriate governing body can/should consider when deciding whether a building is eligible for demolition.
November 30, 201014 yr ^The stated rationale is not... well.... rational. Demolish the building because the $1100 annual tax bill is too heavy a burden? How much will it cost to demolish? I would bet a good bit more than 10 years worth of tax payments. The article says the tax burden is $30,000 a year, not $1100.
November 30, 201014 yr The "oceans of pavement" were created for a specific purpose, not because we did not have something shovel ready to take their place. We, on this forum, don't agree with that purpose... but you can't deny there was one. I also think you are thinking too far ahead at this point. The owners don't even have permission to demolish the building yet.... and I don't believe that whether or not there is a shovel ready project is a factor the appropriate governing body can/should consider when deciding whether a building is eligible for demolition. I never denied there was not a "purpose" I simply used that space as an example of a scene we hate to see a given spot ending up like. The bottom line is that it wound up a parking lot. I am well aware of the project that was supposed to be there. And, if the past is the best predictor of the future, I lay a safe bet that it will become a parking lot or empty space for quite a while.
December 1, 201014 yr I suspect the owners are looking ahead. When the casino is completed there may be more opportunities for that property. They may be thinking, "Why continue to pay property taxes for a vacant building when we will have to tear it down for a more profitable future tenant anyway?"
December 1, 201014 yr The Downtown Self Storage Building has a new owner and he has been busy with transforming the upper floors with a lot of remodeling. It looks really nice, and I went to a party there last month. I believe the self storage component will stay, but the upper floors will now be artists' space. Future plans include a coffee shop on the ground floor and a green roof. http://downtownselfstoragecleveland.com/ impressive thinking for making more modern use of that building -- it'll be a guaranteed hit! :clap:
January 25, 201114 yr It sucks that now Howl at the Moon & Rock Bottom have closed in the PowerHouse, it's all about location and if they were in the East 4th/Gateway neighborhood or on West 9th I think it would be jam packed every weekend. I would visit the WHD on weekends much more often if they had alternatives to "clubs" with good non hip-hop music (not my preference and I'm sure there are many others who feel the same). Let's face it, the flats are mostly dead (even on the west side for the most part except for Shooter's in the summer, which is hard for me to admit as a west bank resident) and without the traffic it's hard for a place like Howl at the Moon/Rock Bottom to do well. Also, I heard a rumors that Peabody's was moving next to Mulberry's on the West bank and the Improv is moving into Silk (I think that's the name) next to Shooters, any truth to this?
January 25, 201114 yr They should really just wipe the whole west bank clean aside from the bridges, powerhouse, and other non garbage structures, and start there instead of trying to develop the lakefront...
January 25, 201114 yr Sure there are some bad buildings, like Christies, that are just awful and should be demoed tomorrow. The industrial buildings there should be restored. So much potential. That way you keep the authenticity and the unique heritage of the place intact. The Wolstein plan of complete destruction was a huge mistake. Then again, when the "vision" of the west bank results in the stunning new architecture of the Larry Flynt club, you might as well just move that planned mental hospital from Euclid Corridor and just put it right next to the Powerhouse. They should really just wipe the whole west bank clean aside from the bridges, powerhouse, and other non garbage structures, and start there instead of trying to develop the lakefront...
January 29, 201114 yr FYI - howl at the moon and rock bottom were doing well. They were asked to leave; they did not close. They wanted to expand windows and needed the space.
January 29, 201114 yr FYI - howl at the moon and rock bottom were doing well. They were asked to leave; they did not close. They wanted to expand windows and needed the space. If they were doing well, why aren't they opening somewhere else? I think Howl at the Moon would go great in the old Jillian's space. Actually, I noticed this tweet from the Historic Warehouse District's twitter account on January 25: "A new piano bar and lounge is opening on W 6th St in Downtown #Cleveland. We'll share more details soon." A relocation of Howl at the Moon? Or just a new business to take advantage of Howl at the Moon no longer being in the city?
January 30, 201114 yr Projects along the Cuyahoga River, in downtown Cleveland present opportunities for the Flats "CLEVELAND -- A longtime industrial corridor and onetime entertainment district, Cleveland's Flats could be repopulated with entrepreneurs, residents, cyclists, gamblers, rowers and aquarium-goers during the next decade. More than $2 billion in development is planned or under way in downtown Cleveland and near the banks of the Cuyahoga River. The Wolstein Group and Fairmount Properties are building an office tower on the east bank, at the seam of the Warehouse District and the Flats. Across the river, Jacobs Entertainment plans to break ground Wednesday for an aquarium." http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/01/projects_along_the_cuyahoga_ri.html
January 30, 201114 yr Great story! I especially liked the following parts....... Regarding the East Bank project: “The project's developers already are planning for their second phase, which could include residences and retail” The West bank: “the K&D Group once again is toying with building more apartments to complement its rentals and condos at the Stonebridge community.” And from Al Ratner of Forest City Enterprises: “I think there are phenomenal opportunities in the Flats that we haven't taken advantage of…… the area that has the greatest opportunity for mixed-use development that will appeal to the kind of people we need to attract to this city is the Flats”. Maybe he will finally put some money where his mouth is.
January 30, 201114 yr Great story! I especially liked the following parts....... Regarding the East Bank project: “The project's developers already are planning for their second phase, which could include residences and retail” The West bank: “the K&D Group once again is toying with building more apartments to complement its rentals and condos at the Stonebridge community.” And from Al Ratner of Forest City Enterprises: “I think there are phenomenal opportunities in the Flats that we haven't taken advantage of…… the area that has the greatest opportunity for mixed-use development that will appeal to the kind of people we need to attract to this city is the Flats”.Maybe he will finally put some money where his mouth is. I was thinking the same thing. They can build condos/Apartment in NYC and DC, but not in their own backyard.
January 31, 201114 yr This is a very good article by Michelle Jarboe. It gets into a bit of the politics behind the development in the flats, and maybe an answer to why the area has not performed to its potential recently. (good job Michelle!) Flats Oxbow Association on uncertain footing amid change in Cleveland's Flats CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A renaissance along the banks of the Cuyahoga River may be possible, but it's unclear who will be at the helm. William Yankow, a Stonebridge Plaza resident and new member of the Flats Oxbow board, said the association has been dysfunctional and narrowly focused in the past. But just as the Flats appear ripe for revival, he said, Flats Oxbow may have reached a turning point. "It wasn't just one group or organization that was at fault for allowing this area to kind of sit," Yankow said. "Now that people are getting re-energized about it, to think that one organization or board is going to do it all would be a fool's errand." http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/01/flats_oxbow_association_on_unc.html
January 31, 201114 yr There does need to be a voice for industral interests in the flats. Should it drown out all others? No, but it shouldn't be drowned out either. We will somehw need to find a new balance.
January 31, 201114 yr I read this article very closely yesterday. And what might be the first time ever, some of the comments at the bottom actually made some sense. The Flats are a very difficult area to develop though, with water way rights, lingering environmental issues, close proximity to heavy industrial use and most importantly, light demand. Of course everyone WANTS to see something done with the area, but how many are willing to go there & spend money on businesses or developments there?
January 31, 201114 yr Once upon a time, in a Cleveland not too long ago, the physical constraints of the Flats didn't keep it from being one of the hottest entertainment districts in the nation. Unfortunately we ended up loving it to death. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 31, 201114 yr Once upon a time, in a Cleveland not too long ago, the physical constraints of the Flats didn't keep it from being one of the hottest entertainment districts in the nation. Unfortunately we ended up loving it to death. Ouch! That hurt! That really, really, really hurt!
January 31, 201114 yr Why? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 31, 201114 yr Twas not love that killed the flats... twas machinations. It would not have been that hard to re-energize the east bank bar strip if the buildings had been allowed to stand. But other choices were made, and so far nobody's had to answer for them. Jury's still out I suppose. And really, the old enternainment area never extended much south of the D-S bridge. The article here is talking about a lot more acreage than was ever part of that, including the Scranton and Columbus peninsulas. I'd love to see it all developed, but when we can't even develop ready-to-roll empty lots on W 6th, that seems like a remote possiblity.
January 31, 201114 yr Why? Oh get over it! ;) I miss the old days, too (though I don't miss the hangovers!). But it's time to build a newer and better Flats. :strong: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 1, 201114 yr Why? Oh get over it! ;) I miss the old days, too (though I don't miss the hangovers!). But it's time to build a newer and better Flats. :strong: Oh I have, but that just sent me down memory lane. There great memories. I'm looking forward to the day when I have new memories.
February 12, 201114 yr Planned skateboard park in Cleveland could have big impact Published: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 12:00 PM By Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio -- When more than 180 skateboarders and BMX-bike riders showed up for a public meeting last April, Cleveland city officials were taken aback. The crowd wasn't just large. It was young - people in their teens, 20s and 30s. They came from downtown Cleveland, from Parma, Kirtland, Eastlake and Kent. And they were riding a wave of enthusiasm for a municipal project: a skateboarding park in the Flats. Compared to a downtown casino and a $425 million medical mart, the 15,000-square-foot skatepark doesn't seem like much. But proponents say the small project could have a big impact, attracting skaters from across Northeast Ohio, capturing traffic from other states and rounding out a recreation hub on the Cuyahoga River. READ MORE AND SEE PHOTOS AT: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/02/planned_skateboard_park_in_cle.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 12, 201114 yr To me, this is a no brainer-- an improvement project that is both an entertainment option and a tourist draw... all for less than $1 million. Not to mention, this small skatepark could also be a catalyst for even more development down by the river.
February 12, 201114 yr Especially if they locate this next to the Cleveland Rowing Foundation's boathouse and Rivergate Park at the old Commodore's Club Marina (it's below the Red Line bridge on the northwest side) by the Columbus Road lift bridge. How cool would it be to have both of these down there? Yes, I think both active sports facilities would attract other businesses down there. The Ohio City Bike Co-op is already down there. I wonder what else might follow? There is certainly available land. Perhaps this is where the Ohio City Youth Hostel ought to be!?!?! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 12, 201114 yr ^This seems like a much better place (from a visitor's perspective) for a hostel. This is shaping up really well. I hope the rowing foundation and the city also put their heads together when it comes to providing parking, concessions, etc. to minimize duplication. This site is less than half a mile away from the the Ohio City Red Line stop via a really cool walk, which I hope gets hyped too, especially for the younger skate boarders.
February 12, 201114 yr FYI about the Cleveland Improv: Powerhouse of laughs: The Improv in the Powerhouse on the west bank of Cleveland's Flats goes dark after tonight's show with Loni Love, the comedian known to regular watchers of TV's "Chelsea Lately." The move makes way for a new aquarium. Improv General Manager Lee Herlands was first to take the stage when it opened Oct. 19, 1989. He'll be the last on the stage tonight, thanking patrons for 22 years of laughter. The Improv will re-open across the parking lot, next to Shooter's, Feb. 22. http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2011/02/clevelands_supercop_james_simo.html
February 13, 201114 yr Planned skateboard park in Cleveland could have big impact Great, great project. It sounds like it will be a quality skate park with awesome views of bridges and the industrial flats, as opposed to some suburban park. It's going to bring young people from all over to an area of the Flats that's now looking like it's going to have some great amenities. Very excited about this.
February 13, 201114 yr As long as the place has a reasonable amount of security, then yeah, it could be a lot of fun
February 15, 201114 yr A new skatepark by the Cuyahoga? Cool: editorial Published: Tuesday, February 15, 2011, 4:21 AM By The Plain Dealer Editorial Board The skatepark plan makes sense, on a lot of levels, as a way to make the riverfront -- and downtown living -- more inviting. The park would be adjacent to the new Rivergate complex, soon to be home to local rowing clubs, kayak rentals and waterfront green space. A bit farther north, work is under way on the Flats East Bank project, which will include temporary park space and a permanent boardwalk. All three projects will open up the waterfront for residents and visitors. http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2011/02/a_new_skatepark_by_the_cuyahog.html
February 17, 201114 yr I like the skatepark and rowing clubs because the people that use these are passionate about their sport and will make a special trek to come here. Another passionate group is dog owners, so I wonder if having a dog park somewhere nearby would make sense as well? Not sure if there's any land available, though...
February 17, 201114 yr I like the skatepark and rowing clubs because the people that use these are passionate about their sport and will make a special trek to come here. Another passionate group is dog owners, so I wonder if having a dog park somewhere nearby would make sense as well? Not sure if there's any land available, though... About a mile away is a large dog park in Tremont's Clark Fields park.
March 1, 201114 yr Author I like the skatepark and rowing clubs because the people that use these are passionate about their sport and will make a special trek to come here. Another passionate group is dog owners, so I wonder if having a dog park somewhere nearby would make sense as well? Not sure if there's any land available, though... About a mile away is a large dog park in Tremont's Clark Fields park. that is a nice park, but it is a shame people have to pack up their dog in the car to get there from much of the flats. There are tons of dogs around stonebridge, too bad something cannot be put together in that area. I think it would be very accessable to OC folks as well.
March 1, 201114 yr The Clark Fields park is over 2 miles away from this site, but I understand 3231's point. But there's about 900 dogs that live downtown so I think a downtown dog park makes sense. This site may be too far from downtown. I was just trying to think of other outdoor venues people would actually travel to that could also be put in the area.
March 1, 201114 yr ^Dog parks are kind of a niche market. You aren't usually going to have critical mass for a dog park with little or no parking. What I mean is that if you put a dog park in or near downtown you probably wouldn't have enough downtown residents using it to justify it's existence. So parking will be an issue as people will be driving their dogs to this park. Personally, I would love to see a new dog park at Edgewater Park maybe with a beach component. That would be unique...
March 14, 201114 yr Cool map showing current/planned projects... http://www.insivia.com/the-future-of-the-flats/
March 14, 201114 yr Nice! But the Terminal Tower needs a spire.... And watch out for that airplane!! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 12, 201114 yr Anybody know what all the mess is beside the Powerhouse is from? Is that demolition debris related to the Aquarium perhaps? A bunch of dumped piles of gravel & concrete and about 20 dumpsters butted up to the base of the Viaduct.... looks like a real mess....
April 15, 201114 yr Tony Hawk Foundation gives $25,000 to Cleveland skatepark, part of recreation hub in the Flats By Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer Published: Friday, April 15, 2011, 5:28 PM Updated: Friday, April 15, 2011, 5:38 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A California foundation launched by famed skateboarder Tony Hawk is sending $25,000 to the Flats. The grant marks the first big private investment in a planned skateboarding park on the Columbus Road Peninsula. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/04/tony_hawk_foundation_gives_250.html
May 10, 201114 yr :clap: :clap: :clap: Cleveland Rowing Foundation Opens Rivergate CLEVELAND--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Seeking to create better access to people-powered recreation on the Cuyahoga River, The Cleveland Rowing Foundation (CRF) is proud to announce the opening of its Rivergate rowing facility on May 17 at 5pm. A special announcement will take place during the ribbon-cutting ceremony at the 6.5 acre Rivergate Park, located at 1785 Merwin Avenue on the east side of the Cuyahoga River in the Flats. “We are pleased that the safety standards which the Cleveland Rowing Foundation has developed and implemented for rowing members will be also be applied to the kayak programs which will be phased in at Rivergate” “This project would not have been possible without The Trust for Public Land which facilitated the site purchase,” said Jon Adams, Chairman of the Rivergate Park Council. “We’d also like to thank the more than 300 donors who believe in our mission of transforming a concrete-covered site into greenspace and a recreation hub.” “We closed on the purchase in September, moved to the new site in November and we were open for rowing in March. This incredible feat could not have happened without the considerable donation of time, talent and toil from our hundreds of volunteers,” said Bob Valerian, Chairman of the CRF Board of Directors. “Cleveland Rowing Foundation's Rivergate is leading the way for the revitalization and rejuvenation of the Columbus Road peninsula which is quickly becoming known as the People-Powered Peninsula. With their sweat and hopes and muscles, they are singlehandedly creating a sustainable energy exemplifying Cleveland's best energies," said Cleveland Ward 3 Councilman, Joe Cimperman. “Cleveland Rowing Foundation's paramount concern is safe river operations. The Cuyahoga River is a federal navigation channel with daily commercial traffic,” said Executive Director, Theresa Gang. “We are pleased that the safety standards which the Cleveland Rowing Foundation has developed and implemented for rowing members will be also be applied to the kayak programs which will be phased in at Rivergate," added CRF board member, Bill Braun. CRF offers a variety of rowing programs for both youth and adults. In addition, kayaking will be available through a partnership with the Cleveland Metroparks’ Institute of the Great Outdoors (“IGO”) paddling program which will begin in July. The Cleveland Dragon Boat Association also operates out of Rivergate Park. More information about CRF’s programs can be found at www.clevelandrows.org. The Campaign for Rivergate Park is ongoing as the Cleveland Rowing Foundation seeks to make building and site improvements, pay off a $900,000 site acquisition loan and move forward with new programming. Donations are tax-deductible and may be payable and mailed to Cleveland Rowing Foundation/Rivergate, 1785 Merwin Avenue, Cleveland, OH 44113. http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110510005100/en/Cleveland-Rowing-Foundation-Opens-Rivergate
May 10, 201114 yr Great news! Didn't this take some construction? This is what it's supposed to look like last time I checked: http://clevelandrows.webuda.com/sites/default/files/RivergateSketch_LRG.gif I'm not sure how construction like that could have made it past our radars.
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